Williams F1

[skwdenyer]

Lebo44 said:

George Russell, March 2019
"Williams has a “fundamental” problem with its FW42 that will take months to address"

Dave Robson, June 2019
"2020 Williams will be an evolution of this year's car. I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with the car. Our development rate is simply not enough."

They changed their mind or just fixed this fundamental problem?

Perhaps the fundamental problem was that until a settlement with Lowe was worked out they couldn’t move on?

[rdjohn]

Just when you thought Kubica’s problems could not get any worse, this happens

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/kubica-austria-...

[Lebo44]

rdjohn said:

Just when you thought Kubica’s problems could not get any worse, this happens

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/kubica-austria-...

No worries, there are still 12 races left

also Toto Wolff said he's polish and denied he provided Williams two different engines (source: Motorsport)

[TheDeuce]

rdjohn said:

Just when you thought Kubica’s problems could not get any worse, this happens

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/kubica-austria-...

Classic. And this bit from that article:

"However, after two days of fact checking and what it calls “verification” F1 announced the change of winner on its own website this afternoon, with race winner Verstappen getting the nod instead."

It took them two days to figure out that Kubica wasn't the driver of the day!?

I guess someone had to press the button for the transmitted stream to show whoever the logging system said had won, at the time it was due to be shown transmission. They must have raised their eyebrows and squirmed a little as they pressed that button though!

[TheDeuce]

Lebo44 said:

Dave Robson, June 2019
"2020 Williams will be an evolution of this year's car. I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with the car. Our development rate is simply not enough."

They changed their mind or just fixed this fundamental problem?

What they meant to say was this:

George Russell, March 2019
"Williams has a “fundamental” problem and my FW42 is the result"

Dave Robson, June 2019
"2020 Williams problems will be an evolution of this year's problems. I don't think there is anything fundamentally positive in the pipeline."

[patmahe]

Lebo44 said:

George Russell, March 2019
"Williams has a “fundamental” problem with its FW42 that will take months to address"

Dave Robson, June 2019
"2020 Williams will be an evolution of this year's car. I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with the car. Our development rate is simply not enough."

They changed their mind or just fixed this fundamental problem?

Surely that is unacceptable though, What is being done to increase the development rate so you climb from last to second last at some point or has the Williams team become ok with finishing last?

Also, as sad as it makes me to say it, Williams need to give Ocon a go, Robert is languishing compared to Russell and the need to know if it's the car or not.

[TheDeuce]

patmahe said:

Surely that is unacceptable though, What is being done to increase the development rate so you climb from last to second last at some point or has the Williams team become ok with finishing last?

Also, as sad as it makes me to say it, Williams need to give Ocon a go, Robert is languishing compared to Russell and the need to know if it's the car or not.

There is a huge difference between putting together a car that's good enough to technically be a legal F1 car and not break the 107% rule, and putting together a car that is quick enough to get off the back row.

Williams are far too big as an operation for the revenue they receive and they cannot afford to deliver or develop a car that is remotely competitive. They can however afford (just, it seems) to technically have 'a car' and stay 'in' the sport while they wait for things to hopefully change in their favour - such as cost caps and more affordable standardised parts.

I'm really not sure if the cost caps will reduce the other teams budgets to within what Williams can attract these days, they may be hanging on for changes that aren't enough to help them. What else can they do though? Other than sell up, which Frank is not going to do until there is zero option.

[sgtBerbatov]

TheDeuce said:

patmahe said:

Surely that is unacceptable though, What is being done to increase the development rate so you climb from last to second last at some point or has the Williams team become ok with finishing last?

Also, as sad as it makes me to say it, Williams need to give Ocon a go, Robert is languishing compared to Russell and the need to know if it's the car or not.

There is a huge difference between putting together a car that's good enough to technically be a legal F1 car and not break the 107% rule, and putting together a car that is quick enough to get off the back row.

Williams are far too big as an operation for the revenue they receive and they cannot afford to deliver or develop a car that is remotely competitive. They can however afford (just, it seems) to technically have 'a car' and stay 'in' the sport while they wait for things to hopefully change in their favour - such as cost caps and more affordable standardised parts.

I'm really not sure if the cost caps will reduce the other teams budgets to within what Williams can attract these days, they may be hanging on for changes that aren't enough to help them. What else can they do though? Other than sell up, which Frank is not going to do until there is zero option.

I'll be honest, I reckon when the new regs come in and they've built a car for it, that will dictate what happens with the team. If there's no improvement then the team will go up for sale, either because Frank's had enough or Frank's just simply not around anymore.

[TheDeuce]

sgtBerbatov said:

I'll be honest, I reckon when the new regs come in and they've built a car for it, that will dictate what happens with the team. If there's no improvement then the team will go up for sale, either because Frank's had enough or Frank's just simply not around anymore.

I agree totally.

In Claire's perfect world a budget cap would be around the £100m mark and they would, as a result, have a competitive budget, and excuse to make redundancies to scale back their team overheads (which surely several teams would have to do with such a limited budget).

Sadly however, it's looking like the cap will be £150m + various excluded expense, more likely £200m once the teams have found clever ways of justifying various costs being classed as excluded costs. The big ones being drivers salaries and corporate hosting. This level of cap is intended to be in place for up to 5 years before a further potential reduction. From Williams perspective, that isn't really going to help them at all. A budget cap is of no use to them if they can't even raise the funds to meet the cap. The idea they could then sustain their bloated operation and still be underfunded compared to their rivals for another half decade post 2021...

At some point, something has to give. Whether or not Frank wishes it.

[anonymous-user]

rdjohn said:

Just when you thought Kubica’s problems could not get any worse, this happens

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/kubica-austria-...

At Silverstone after Q1...

Race Engineer said:

Great work Robert, that's P1, well done mate!

Kubica said:

Whoopi Hooo! Love it guys! Knew we'd come good! Let's smash Q2

Back at the garage...

Race Engineer said:

Erm, bit of a mistake Robert. We've checked again and we meant you got P20. Again.

Kubica said:

Fooksocks

[skinny]

patmahe said:

Surely that is unacceptable though, What is being done to increase the development rate so you climb from last to second last at some point or has the Williams team become ok with finishing last?

Also, as sad as it makes me to say it, Williams need to give Ocon a go, Robert is languishing compared to Russell and the need to know if it's the car or not.

What's the point? Im not sure any driver would be finishing much above 16th position with that car. Maybe Russell isn't the next Hamilton but he's clearly not a complete tool either.
Also, would Ocon even want to? Williams, as much as it pains me to say it (i used to work with them) is a poisoned chalice, there seems to be no opportunity to grab that car and drag it round the track, no chance to show off any sort of ability apart from getting it to the chequered flag.

[Lebo44]

Seriously, any rumours that Kubica could be replaced this season is just speculation.

Orlen's press spokeman:


Even CEO of Orlen confirmed few times that the company is very satified with this 1+1 deal (yes, there is an option for extension for 2020 but details are classified).

We can go even futher (beware, Conspiracy Theory Mode: ON)

Orlen's CEO said:

The contract has been signed for 2 seasons, because when the company decided to be involved it hopes to tie with Formula 1 for longer. This is an investment that must last. Certainly, this agreement is very tightly connected with business and it already brought effects

(translated with Google)

So the only way to replace Kubica is to break this deal by Williams and return the money, pay penalties and get another hit to the reputation. I don't think that Williams can afford it.

Edited by Lebo44 on Wednesday 3rd July 14:20

[Frimley111R]

skinny said:

patmahe said:

Surely that is unacceptable though, What is being done to increase the development rate so you climb from last to second last at some point or has the Williams team become ok with finishing last?

Also, as sad as it makes me to say it, Williams need to give Ocon a go, Robert is languishing compared to Russell and the need to know if it's the car or not.

What's the point? Im not sure any driver would be finishing much above 16th position with that car. Maybe Russell isn't the next Hamilton but he's clearly not a complete tool either.
Also, would Ocon even want to? Williams, as much as it pains me to say it (i used to work with them) is a poisoned chalice, there seems to be no opportunity to grab that car and drag it round the track, no chance to show off any sort of ability apart from getting it to the chequered flag.

Agreed, it works for Russell as he can show he can beat a once great driver. It's Kubica's chance to show he is still great but.... Ocon has nothing to prove and running around at the back of the grid will do him more harm than good.

[TheDeuce]

Frimley111R said:

Agreed, it works for Russell as he can show he can beat a once great driver. It's Kubica's chance to show he is still great but.... Ocon has nothing to prove and running around at the back of the grid will do him more harm than good.

That's true. If he couldn't match or exceed GR's Williams performance that would be career over really. On the other hand... any drive is better than no drive at all. Assuming Kubica does depart at the end of this season, Williams could be the only place for Ocon to go. Harsh, but that's F1.

[DanielSan]

skinny said:

What's the point? Im not sure any driver would be finishing much above 16th position with that car. Maybe Russell isn't the next Hamilton but he's clearly not a complete tool either.
Also, would Ocon even want to? Williams, as much as it pains me to say it (i used to work with them) is a poisoned chalice, there seems to be no opportunity to grab that car and drag it round the track, no chance to show off any sort of ability apart from getting it to the chequered flag.

If the chance to drive even the Williams came up this season, it won't but that's beside the point, Ocon would be stupid not to get in that car. He's sat on the sidelines at the moment doing nothing while he slowly gets forgotten about as Norris, Russell, Albon, LeClerc all take the headlines and attentions of other teams. Circumstances screwed him over last seasons but right now he needs seat time, and either Toto needs to drop his Mercedes contract to let him get a drive somewhere else or put his money where his mouth is and bin off Bottas, but he won't do that either, partly because Bottas is performing well, partly because his management company manage Bottas also.

[Car-Matt]

DanielSan said:

skinny said:

What's the point? Im not sure any driver would be finishing much above 16th position with that car. Maybe Russell isn't the next Hamilton but he's clearly not a complete tool either.
Also, would Ocon even want to? Williams, as much as it pains me to say it (i used to work with them) is a poisoned chalice, there seems to be no opportunity to grab that car and drag it round the track, no chance to show off any sort of ability apart from getting it to the chequered flag.

If the chance to drive even the Williams came up this season, it won't but that's beside the point, Ocon would be stupid not to get in that car. He's sat on the sidelines at the moment doing nothing while he slowly gets forgotten about as Norris, Russell, Albon, LeClerc all take the headlines and attentions of other teams. Circumstances screwed him over last seasons but right now he needs seat time, and either Toto needs to drop his Mercedes contract to let him get a drive somewhere else or put his money where his mouth is and bin off Bottas, but he won't do that either, partly because Bottas is performing well, partly because his management company manage Bottas also.

Personally I think Ocon will replace Hulkenberg next season, this is what the rumour mill is telling me

[anonymous-user]

I might be being mean, however I don't see Ocon offering anything above the current grid, other than Kubica. And even then, it might mean Russell gets tested every fortnight.

[Lebo44]

If Russell stayed in Williams for 2020, Ocon would bring nothing extra to the team. He's a Merc guy (as Russell) and not backed by money (as far as I know). If Russell left Williams then of course Ocon is a very good candidate.

Williams need at least a solid driver (like Russell) + money to keep the budget. I don't know how reliable this ROKiT is as a sponsor. Did some research but couldn't find any financials (lots of marketing stuff instead). Latifi is an option here as backed by his father's money but not sure if Williams is his top priority. If I'd paid for a seat millions of pounds I'd ensure I get the fastest car possible. So Williams is his 2nd or 3rd option imo.

Edited by Lebo44 on Wednesday 3rd July 19:32

[TheDeuce]

janesmith1950 said:

I might be being mean, however I don't see Ocon offering anything above the current grid, other than Kubica. And even then, it might mean Russell gets tested every fortnight.

I'd love to see that. But for several reasons, I think Williams might be happy to have two drivers not close enough battle directly.

Williams: They pretty much just want to exist right now, no need for inter-team driver stress. Just get the cars around each track and pray for a 2021 future that somehow helps them aim for something better than a p20/p19 'race'.

[entropy]

Interesting insights from Mark Gallagher when I was listening to Codder's Flat Chat podcast - management staffed by cock-blockers who are too set their ways.