Official 2022 Monaco Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Poll: Official 2022 Monaco Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Total Members Polled: 219
Discussion
resolve10 said:
Have you actually watched it? He didn't touch the line because he was moving across to cover Sainz, he touched it because he got a snap of power oversteer on cold tyres. Had he not steered into it he'd probably have spun across the track. I accept the point that it's up to each driver to control their car, but I'd rather see discretion used in situations like this.
he touched it because he was pushing as hard as he thought he could get away with to get in front of LeclercRussell had already shown that you could be behind a car exiting the pit at Sainte Devote, but ahead by Massenet ...& if Max hadn't touched/ crossed the line there was every chance Leclerc would have done the same to him
freedman said:
NRS said:
Isn’t it max 3 of them before you get in trouble? The new director seems pretty poor in general, from the stuff so far.
Freitas has been excellent in the WEC, apart from last years finale where his failure to issue the correct punishment handed Ferrari the world championshipIn hindsight his failure to apply the correct sanction after that incident seems ideal practice for running F1!
A very worrying trend. Once is very unfortunate, twice is a conspiracy.
jsf said:
resolve10 said:
Have you actually watched it? He didn't touch the line because he was moving across to cover Sainz, he touched it because he got a snap of power oversteer on cold tyres. Had he not steered into it he'd probably have spun across the track. I accept the point that it's up to each driver to control their car, but I'd rather see discretion used in situations like this.
The rule around contact on Lap 1 is a good example. Stewards will be a bit more lenient regarding contact between cars as it's understandably more difficult to avoid contact with 20 cars jockeying for position than it is later in the race when the field has spread out.
The problem with black and white rules is it sometimes means stupid penalties for very trivial things that have no effect on the race. A good exanple being Hamilton/Mercedes penalty for a .5mm discrepancy in the wing last season (Brazil I think?). I'd have preferred a more sensible approach of 'put the car right before the race' than a grid penalty.
No, it's even more important in poor conditions to keep within the defined limits. The rule around contact on Lap 1 is a good example. Stewards will be a bit more lenient regarding contact between cars as it's understandably more difficult to avoid contact with 20 cars jockeying for position than it is later in the race when the field has spread out.
The problem with black and white rules is it sometimes means stupid penalties for very trivial things that have no effect on the race. A good exanple being Hamilton/Mercedes penalty for a .5mm discrepancy in the wing last season (Brazil I think?). I'd have preferred a more sensible approach of 'put the car right before the race' than a grid penalty.
If you drive out of control in a safety zone in particular, you have no excuse because the conditions are worse, you should be more cautious, not less.
Not making clear, concise rules leaves the stewards with a "is it induced, or is it really down to the conditions?" grey area now creeping in with every driver.
And that is where it gets Mesi...
DOCG said:
Jasandjules said:
Are you suggesting that crossing the pit exit line is a trivial thing?
Yes, it had no safety implications whatsoever. I may be misremembering, but I thought that was about crossing the line?
resolve10 said:
Byker28i said:
Yuki Tsunoda in Austria last year. Ferrari used this example in their appeal, but because they've rewitten the rule to say cross the line Red Bull argued that Gifted front and rear wheel hadn't all crossed the line, only some of it, which the Stewards accepted.
Gifted took the racing decision to move over and block the track as the Ferrari was coming quicker behind him, but went slightly too early.
It's another example of those little mistakes he makes that add up. Usually its overdriving and losing time, in this case he needed the stewards to not dock him the 5 secs penalty and lose the place.
But the rules been set now with a challenge, that means the drivers have almost an extra 305mm at the front and 405mm at the rear wheel of track to use when exiting the pits. There's often little time between pit exits and the next person coming through. Allowing Gifteds defence of his position has opened this up for others to use and exploit in the future.
Remember the Portugese GP with the tight pit lane exit?
Have you actually watched it? He didn't touch the line because he was moving across to cover Sainz, he touched it because he got a snap of power oversteer on cold tyres. Had he not steered into it he'd probably have spun across the track. I accept the point that it's up to each driver to control their car, but I'd rather see discretion used in situations like this. Gifted took the racing decision to move over and block the track as the Ferrari was coming quicker behind him, but went slightly too early.
It's another example of those little mistakes he makes that add up. Usually its overdriving and losing time, in this case he needed the stewards to not dock him the 5 secs penalty and lose the place.
But the rules been set now with a challenge, that means the drivers have almost an extra 305mm at the front and 405mm at the rear wheel of track to use when exiting the pits. There's often little time between pit exits and the next person coming through. Allowing Gifteds defence of his position has opened this up for others to use and exploit in the future.
Remember the Portugese GP with the tight pit lane exit?
Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 1st June 14:55
The rule around contact on Lap 1 is a good example. Stewards will be a bit more lenient regarding contact between cars as it's understandably more difficult to avoid contact with 20 cars jockeying for position than it is later in the race when the field has spread out.
The problem with black and white rules is it sometimes means stupid penalties for very trivial things that have no effect on the race. A good exanple being Hamilton/Mercedes penalty for a .5mm discrepancy in the wing last season (Brazil I think?). I'd have preferred a more sensible approach of 'put the car right before the race' than a grid penalty.
ks and pushed by Horner. Gifted steered across the track - watch the steering wheel, there was no snap just a controlled movement of the wheel to claim track position.There's no snap seem from the Ferrari camera either. It just needs to be accepted that gifted got another decision his way and thats the way it goes now, that Red Bull get all the decisions...
Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 2nd June 09:38
Byker28i said:
Yup, I posted the in car video earlier so that claim was bks and pushed by Horner. Gifted steered across the track - watch the steering wheel, there was no snap just a controlled movement of the wheel to claim track position.
There's no snap seem from the Ferrari camera either. It just needs to be accepted that gifted got another decision his way and thats the way it goes now, that Red Bull get all the decisions...
You didn't see him have to turn the wheel to correct the back stepping out then?ks and pushed by Horner. Gifted steered across the track - watch the steering wheel, there was no snap just a controlled movement of the wheel to claim track position.There's no snap seem from the Ferrari camera either. It just needs to be accepted that gifted got another decision his way and thats the way it goes now, that Red Bull get all the decisions...
Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 2nd June 09:38
Its quite clear, from onboard and CLCs view
I'm not arguing whether he should have been penalised, or not, but its quite clear the car steps out on him, suggesting its doesnt is as ridiculous as your constant use of Gifted
Byker28i said:
resolve10 said:
Byker28i said:
Yuki Tsunoda in Austria last year. Ferrari used this example in their appeal, but because they've rewitten the rule to say cross the line Red Bull argued that Gifted front and rear wheel hadn't all crossed the line, only some of it, which the Stewards accepted.
Gifted took the racing decision to move over and block the track as the Ferrari was coming quicker behind him, but went slightly too early.
It's another example of those little mistakes he makes that add up. Usually its overdriving and losing time, in this case he needed the stewards to not dock him the 5 secs penalty and lose the place.
But the rules been set now with a challenge, that means the drivers have almost an extra 305mm at the front and 405mm at the rear wheel of track to use when exiting the pits. There's often little time between pit exits and the next person coming through. Allowing Gifteds defence of his position has opened this up for others to use and exploit in the future.
Remember the Portugese GP with the tight pit lane exit?
Have you actually watched it? He didn't touch the line because he was moving across to cover Sainz, he touched it because he got a snap of power oversteer on cold tyres. Had he not steered into it he'd probably have spun across the track. I accept the point that it's up to each driver to control their car, but I'd rather see discretion used in situations like this. Gifted took the racing decision to move over and block the track as the Ferrari was coming quicker behind him, but went slightly too early.
It's another example of those little mistakes he makes that add up. Usually its overdriving and losing time, in this case he needed the stewards to not dock him the 5 secs penalty and lose the place.
But the rules been set now with a challenge, that means the drivers have almost an extra 305mm at the front and 405mm at the rear wheel of track to use when exiting the pits. There's often little time between pit exits and the next person coming through. Allowing Gifteds defence of his position has opened this up for others to use and exploit in the future.
Remember the Portugese GP with the tight pit lane exit?
Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 1st June 14:55
The rule around contact on Lap 1 is a good example. Stewards will be a bit more lenient regarding contact between cars as it's understandably more difficult to avoid contact with 20 cars jockeying for position than it is later in the race when the field has spread out.
The problem with black and white rules is it sometimes means stupid penalties for very trivial things that have no effect on the race. A good exanple being Hamilton/Mercedes penalty for a .5mm discrepancy in the wing last season (Brazil I think?). I'd have preferred a more sensible approach of 'put the car right before the race' than a grid penalty.
ks and pushed by Horner. Gifted steered across the track - watch the steering wheel, there was no snap just a controlled movement of the wheel to claim track position.There's no snap seem from the Ferrari camera either. It just needs to be accepted that gifted got another decision his way and thats the way it goes now, that Red Bull get all the decisions...
Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 2nd June 09:38
The problem for me are the unclear rules regarding the lines. If they made the ruling as clear as "no tyre shall contact the line under any circumstances other than to avoid a collision with another vehicle" or similar, there would be no grey area. At present we have a clouded issue that causes controversy as far as I can tell.
Smap oversteer would mean an instant jerk and reaction on the wheel, as we've often seen Gifted do before. His car copntrol and responses can't be questioned. That was a controlled gentle input to the wheel to maintain track position.
I'm not saying thats wrong, I'm sure everyone would have done it, just that others would have ensured they were past the pit exit line first. It's these small mistakes that Gifted needs to correct if he's going to become one of F1 great drivers, without relying on favourable decisions
Still the precedent is set now. Drivers get an extra 0.3m or more of the track to use on pit exit...
I'm not saying thats wrong, I'm sure everyone would have done it, just that others would have ensured they were past the pit exit line first. It's these small mistakes that Gifted needs to correct if he's going to become one of F1 great drivers, without relying on favourable decisions
Still the precedent is set now. Drivers get an extra 0.3m or more of the track to use on pit exit...
Byker28i said:
Smap oversteer would mean an instant jerk and reaction on the wheel, as we've often seen Gifted do before. His car copntrol and responses can't be questioned. That was a controlled gentle input to the wheel to maintain track position.
I'm not saying thats wrong, I'm sure everyone would have done it, just that others would have ensured they were past the pit exit line first. It's these small mistakes that Gifted needs to correct if he's going to become one of F1 great drivers, without relying on favourable decisions
Still the precedent is set now. Drivers get an extra 0.3m or more of the track to use on pit exit...
Please stop with the Gifted nonsense I'm not saying thats wrong, I'm sure everyone would have done it, just that others would have ensured they were past the pit exit line first. It's these small mistakes that Gifted needs to correct if he's going to become one of F1 great drivers, without relying on favourable decisions
Still the precedent is set now. Drivers get an extra 0.3m or more of the track to use on pit exit...
DanielSan said:
CanAm said:
Adrian W said:
pavarotti1980 said:
Its Planet F1, did he really say it? when it comes to inventing stories or he said' she said' they said etc 'The championship leader, Max, was not helped in that sense by the chosen strategy. It turned completely to Checo's favour. That was disappointing to me, and I would have liked it to be different for the championship leader''
That to me just reads rather Max's strategy turned out to be the wrong one and Checo's turned out right for him. Given that he's Max's dad it's not really a surprise he's disappointed with the outcome. I'd say that's 90% Planet F1 doing what they always do and 10% Jo's being disappointed in his sons result from the weekend.
Byker28i said:
Still the precedent is set now. Drivers get an extra 0.3m or more of the track to use on pit exit...
This is the problem.I have no problem with what decision was made on the day but now the rule has been questioned, and a clarification needs to be made on the grounds of safety.
But is what F1 is all about, pushing for every last inch of advantage.
Zarco said:
RB Will said:
Piginapoke said:
Please stop with the Gifted nonsense
+1 it isn’t clever or funny, it just makes look like someone with Tourette’s is posting. Gifted could refer to Abu Dhabi, '21 or Max' excellent skills when he choses to be sportsmanlike.
PhilAsia said:
Zarco said:
RB Will said:
Piginapoke said:
Please stop with the Gifted nonsense
+1 it isn’t clever or funny, it just makes look like someone with Tourette’s is posting. Gifted could refer to Abu Dhabi, '21 or Max' excellent skills when he choses to be sportsmanlike.
I quite like Whinger Spice just because it amuses me.
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