Sebastian Vettel
Discussion
Schermerhorn said:
Common Porpoise said:
It's that time again 
Looks like LeClerc pulled a Seb on Seb this time tbh. Dear oh dear!
People still blaming Vettel on Twitter and on Autosport Forums.Looks like LeClerc pulled a Seb on Seb this time tbh. Dear oh dear!
LeClrec's attitude after the race will be telling; he has always been entitled.
It didn't look like Charles was out of control under braking like Seb was last week. He was just in no position to make an attempt at overtaking there.
Edit: full hands up admission from Charles then. Interesting Brundle seems to contradict above statement saying he is known for beating himself up
Edited by Common Porpoise on Sunday 12th July 14:43
Common Porpoise said:
Schermerhorn said:
Common Porpoise said:
It's that time again
Looks like LeClerc pulled a Seb on Seb this time tbh. Dear oh dear!
People still blaming Vettel on Twitter and on Autosport Forums.Looks like LeClerc pulled a Seb on Seb this time tbh. Dear oh dear!
LeClrec's attitude after the race will be telling; he has always been entitled.
It didn't look like Charles was out of control under braking like Seb was last week. He was just in no position to make an attempt at overtaking there.
Edit: full hands up admission from Charles then. Interesting Brundle seems to contradict above statement saying he is known for beating himself up
Edited by Common Porpoise on Sunday 12th July 14:43
Personally I think lecs fault more than anyone, but more racing incident.... TBF I need a rewatch but maybe mags lairy line set the whole thing up a bit
Teddy Lop said:
lec does have a penitence when he knows he wrong though.
Does he? I (genuinely) haven't seen any comment from him on his trip back to Monaco, but when F1 is making a lot out of the precautions they are taking to keep everybody safe, and the sanctity of the F1 biosphere, this seemed a bad card for him to have played.If he's apologised and said it was a misjudgement, then hats off to him.
paulguitar said:
Schermerhorn said:
we'll ignore that he will have had the best and most dominant F1 car in history for 8 years in a row
Yes, we will ignore it, because it's b
ks.I assume from your obvious ignorance that you weren't born to witness the 1992 and 1988 seasons, for example?
Edited by paulguitar on Sunday 12th July 11:26
Fangio - 5 titles. Consistently swapped to the team with the best car.
Prost, 4 titles. Two of his three with McLaren were in a car that was the best in the field, and his last was with the last active Williams.
Schumacher. 5 of his seven titles in Ferrari's most successful and dominant period ever.
Vettel. 4 titles in Adrian Newey's Red Bull.
It seems, when a team has the resources to build a dominant car, they are keen not to squander their chances by trusting the car to a less than best driver. That would make sense, no?
I can only think of two drivers who have managed a driver's championship win in a car that was not the best available that season, and I've listed both of them above.
kiseca said:
paulguitar said:
Schermerhorn said:
we'll ignore that he will have had the best and most dominant F1 car in history for 8 years in a row
Yes, we will ignore it, because it's bks.I assume from your obvious ignorance that you weren't born to witness the 1992 and 1988 seasons, for example?
Edited by paulguitar on Sunday 12th July 11:26
Fangio - 5 titles. Consistently swapped to the team with the best car.
Prost, 4 titles. Two of his three with McLaren were in a car that was the best in the field, and his last was with the last active Williams.
Schumacher. 5 of his seven titles in Ferrari's most successful and dominant period ever.
Vettel. 4 titles in Adrian Newey's Red Bull.
It seems, when a team has the resources to build a dominant car, they are keen not to squander their chances by trusting the car to a less than best driver. That would make sense, no?
I can only think of two drivers who have managed a driver's championship win in a car that was not the best available that season, and I've listed both of them above.
paua said:
In the case of Prost, it needs to be noted that in 2 of his championships, he beat other all-time greats Lauda & Senna. In his other 2 title years, he beat ex-champ Rosberg & future champ Hill. All in the same car ( dominant car notwithstanding) & but for the vagaries of the points system in '88, he beat Senna again.
Yes, Prost was an astonishingly good driver.paua said:
In the case of Prost, it needs to be noted that in 2 of his championships, he beat other all-time greats Lauda & Senna. In his other 2 title years, he beat ex-champ Rosberg & future champ Hill. All in the same car ( dominant car notwithstanding) & but for the vagaries of the points system in '88, he beat Senna again.
Actually I wonder if that's a record that any other multiple world champion can match or beat? 4 championships won against team mates who are past of future champions, or to put it another way, 100% of championships won against a team mate who was a former or future world champion?Fangio had Moss as a team mate for at least one of his, an excellent racer who never won a championship. Schumacher never had a champion as a team mate apart from Piquet, who he beat, but not in a championship winning year. Vettel's teammate for his four was Webber, not a world champ, and Lewis has beaten a few champion team mates but in his winning years he's had Kovalainen and Bottas,
Of the three time champions, I don't think any have won all their titles against a world champion team mate. Not so sure for the double world champions, though I expect a number of 1 time world champions can claim a world champion team mate in their successful year.
4 titles against world champion team mates is definitely a record, which will be broken by Lewis if Bottas ever wins one. But the 100% record isn't matched, as far as I know, by any other multiple world champ.
EDIT: Oh, and Schumacher also had Rosberg as a team mate, forgot about the comeback.
Edited by kiseca on Monday 13th July 11:11
paulguitar said:
Yes, Prost was an astonishingly good driver.
Who after his time at McLaren was afraid of taking on Senna in equal machinery...All of the record breaking drivers have typically enjoyed the best cars of the time. It's the nature of it; top teams want top drivers and vice versa. Arguably for the top drivers, finding yourself in the right team at the right time is equally as important a skill as being able to drive quickly. Over a season a great driver in a poor car can't beat an average driver in a great one.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Who after his time at McLaren was afraid of taking on Senna in equal machinery...
I'm not sure if it was 'afraid'. More that he was fed up with Senna's shenanigans. On outright pace, Senna was usually faster, no denying that. Overall, it's a tough call to place one above the other, in my view.paulguitar said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Who after his time at McLaren was afraid of taking on Senna in equal machinery...
I'm not sure if it was 'afraid'. More that he was fed up with Senna's shenanigans. On outright pace, Senna was usually faster, no denying that. Overall, it's a tough call to place one above the other, in my view."If I had to choose a player to take a shot to save a game I'd choose Michael Jordan; If I had to choose a player to take a shot to save my life...I'd take Larry Bird." - Pat Riley
I'd take Prost & Bird - just an opinion
kiseca said:
I can only think of two drivers who have managed a driver's championship win in a car that was not the best available that season, and I've listed both of them above.
You seem to have missed the most recent one. Hamilton has won the WDC when the Mercedes was not the best car on the grid, the Ferrari has been in at least one of the years. Even Ferrari have said they would have won the WDC if they had Hamilton driving for them.RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
paulguitar said:
Yes, Prost was an astonishingly good driver.
Who after his time at McLaren was afraid of taking on Senna in equal machinery...First, Senna was Prost's recommendation as his team mate at McLaren.
Secondly, everything was fine between them until Senna tried to squeeze Prost into a pitwall.
Thirdly, the Senna movie leaves out an awful lot of history between those two as teammates and makes it seem as though the troubles started only in Japan 1989 and that Prost, a man who had lost championships before without trying to drive into people, and who had been the cleanest driver on the grid for the last 8 years, all of a sudden couldn't stand to lose to Senna and turned into Dick Dastardly. On the contrary, Senna was the one who couldn't stand losing to Prost, that's what drove him to win at all costs, and that's what drove their relationship into the dust.
Prost didn't care as long as he was beaten fairly.
Maybe have a look at the history between them as team mates.
KevinCamaroSS said:
You seem to have missed the most recent one. Hamilton has won the WDC when the Mercedes was not the best car on the grid, the Ferrari has been in at least one of the years. Even Ferrari have said they would have won the WDC if they had Hamilton driving for them.
Fair point.Edited by kiseca on Monday 13th July 11:34
kiseca said:
I can only think of two drivers who have managed a driver's championship win in a car that was not the best available that season, and I've listed both of them above.
Good points, it is however fairly well acknowledged that HAM had an inferior car to the Ferrari in 08, he also had a poorer car (although by less of a margin) in 18 and of course 07 although he didn't win the championship that year (though could have but for the rub of the green).Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff