Hulkenberg to Lotus

[Norfolkit]

col68 said:

From what I've heard, lotus are in big trouble, long list of people waiting to get paid, not just kimi, this latest investment 'deal' is possibly a smoke screen.......time will tell.

So what have you heard then.
Most big companies have a long list of people waiting to get paid, size bring clout, if you don't like the credit terms they demand there's always someone else they can deal with.

[Chrisgr31]

Norfolkit said:

col68 said:

From what I've heard, lotus are in big trouble, long list of people waiting to get paid, not just kimi, this latest investment 'deal' is possibly a smoke screen.......time will tell.

So what have you heard then.
Most big companies have a long list of people waiting to get paid, size bring clout, if you don't like the credit terms they demand there's always someone else they can deal with.

I haven't heard anything however when I posted about all this assuming the deal goes through it was on the smoke screen basis. Wasn't there an instance some years ago where someone was going to invest in an existing Formula One team and it all turned out to be rubbish and the funds didn't exist etc?

I struggle to believe that even in those days money laundering precautions or whatever the banking hold up is.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find the deal falls out of bed at the end of the season.

[Kaiser_Wull]

rubystone said:

Grosjean is more than a match for Raikkonen now in most areas.

You are kidding, right?

Sure, Raikkonen has struggled in qualifying for the last few races but that seems to be attributable to the change of tyre specs promoting handling characteristics (i.e. understeer) which don't suit his driving style but do suit Grosjean's style. The introduction of the LWB car seems to have exacerbated that - it's no coincidence that reuniting Raikkonen with the SWB version of the E21 saw him comfortably out-perform Grosjean in qualifying last weekend, as he did during the first half of the season.

In terms of racecraft, Raikkonen is one of the best (perhaps the best) non-DRS overtaker in the field (by way of example, his passes on Maldonado and Button in Singapore were nothing short of brilliant). Grosjean doesn't compare favourably in that regard.

They're both pretty good at tyre preservation.

Likewise, I have no doubt that in a straight fight Raikkonen will usually have better race pace than Grosjean. The points tallies for the season don't lie, and that's in spite of piss-poor strategic calls costing Raikkonen dearly in a couple of races this season.

[simonpeter]

I agree with his fans Kimi is an exciting and remarkably consistant preformer. However I wonder about his Ferrari move? World champ in 07 chasing Massa in 08. How will it work with Alonso? and the Tifosi?
I hope that Lotus do confirm the Hulkenburg signing, he and Grosjean will be a strong and hungry pair next season. The new rules will most likely shake up the running order, ideal chance for them. At least next year will be a new technical challenge for everyone.

[rubystone]

Kaiser_Wull said:

You are kidding, right?

Sure, Raikkonen has struggled in qualifying for the last few races but that seems to be attributable to the change of tyre specs promoting handling characteristics (i.e. understeer) which don't suit his driving style but do suit Grosjean's style. The introduction of the LWB car seems to have exacerbated that - it's no coincidence that reuniting Raikkonen with the SWB version of the E21 saw him comfortably out-perform Grosjean in qualifying last weekend, as he did during the first half of the season.

In terms of racecraft, Raikkonen is one of the best (perhaps the best) non-DRS overtaker in the field (by way of example, his passes on Maldonado and Button in Singapore were nothing short of brilliant). Grosjean doesn't compare favourably in that regard.

They're both pretty good at tyre preservation.

Likewise, I have no doubt that in a straight fight Raikkonen will usually have better race pace than Grosjean. The points tallies for the season don't lie, and that's in spite of piss-poor strategic calls costing Raikkonen dearly in a couple of races this season.

In terms of pace, Grosjean is faster than Raikkonen, but then so is Hamilton, Vettel, Webber and on occasion, Alonso. Kimi has gone backwards on that. Whether that's down to a lack of ultimate fitness or the car, I don't know. But I can only speak for what I have seen on-track this year.

It is ONLY in the area of racecraft where Kimi's experience tells against Grosjean. But then one would expect that given his inexperience.

I see Grosjean at the same stage of his career as Massa was when he joined Ferrari from Sauber. Similar characteristics, similar problems, similar electrifying pace.

So no, I am "not kidding"

[MartG]

There's a rumour going around that Kimi and Hulkenberg will swap seats for the last two races this year

http://www.f1today.net/en/news/raikkonen-could-dri...

[gaz1234]

di resta to gp2.

[VolvoT5]

MartG said:

There's a rumour going around that Kimi and Hulkenberg will swap seats for the last two races this year

http://www.f1today.net/en/news/raikkonen-could-dri...

sounds like 100% BS to me but it would be great to see........ it would be a good solution for everyone really as it is clear the relationship between Kimi and the team management has completely broken down..... plus Hulkenberg would get the benefit of some experience with Lotus for next year.

[Justaredbadge]

Didn't renault do that before with Sauber?

GianCarlo Fisichello and Jacques Villeneuve If I remember rightly. About 2005/6. Last year of Sauber before BMW bought in.

[carinaman]

rubystone, if you check out one of the recent Peter Windsor The Racer's Edge podcasts they say much the same as Kaiser Wull, citing changes in tyres and the LWB chassis and how Kimi steers from the shoulders so it could well be possible that changes haven't suited Kimi. Look at how Force India were compromised or inconvenienced by the changes in tyres.

I'm not sure how anyone would compare Kimi's drop in performance with Massa's improvement.

[rubystone]

carinaman said:

I'm not sure how anyone would compare Kimi's drop in performance with Massa's improvement.

Do you mean Grosjean rather than Massa?

We saw Kimi's head drop at Ferrari in 2008. The car wasn't the problem then. I think the same thing has happened at Lotus. What is interesting about him is that despite views that he could get a decent time out of a pram, he clearly does require the car to be 'right' to perform at his best...look at his issues with power steering last year...

[VolvoT5]

rubystone said:

Do you mean Grosjean rather than Massa?

We saw Kimi's head drop at Ferrari in 2008. The car wasn't the problem then. I think the same thing has happened at Lotus. What is interesting about him is that despite views that he could get a decent time out of a pram, he clearly does require the car to be 'right' to perform at his best...look at his issues with power steering last year...

Kimi was going OK at the start of 2008, it was only when the politics started to kick in that his form dropped - gossip coming out that it would be too difficult to partner Kimi with Alonso and so on. Ferrari made it clear from early 2008 they wanted rid of him http://www.pitpass.com/public/article.php?fes_art_... .

Then if you believe the gossip you had Michael Schumacher messing around in the background, adding 'upgrade' parts to the car that Kimi didn't like or want.

I think it is more complicated than his head just dropping. This year again, things seem to have gone downhill from mid season when it became clear he was looking to get out of Lotus.

[Chrisgr31]

So on Monday they were saying the deal to re-finance Lotus had been done. It's now Friday and still no announcement it has completed!

[col68]

Chrisgr31 said:

So on Monday they were saying the deal to re-finance Lotus had been done. It's now Friday and still no announcement it has completed!

Smoke and mirrors.....Hulkenberg has a contract at most of the teams in the pit lane.

[ajprice]

col68 said:

Chrisgr31 said:

So on Monday they were saying the deal to re-finance Lotus had been done. It's now Friday and still no announcement it has completed!

Smoke and mirrors.....Hulkenberg has a contract at most of the teams in the pit lane.

http://sniffpetrol.com/2013/10/18/hulkenberg-in-si...

[fatbutt]

MartG said:

There's a rumour going around that Kimi and Hulkenberg will swap seats for the last two races this year

http://www.f1today.net/en/news/raikkonen-could-dri...

I love this idea, even if it comes to nothing. Imagine if he does drive a Sauber and he does well? Maybe it would open up the option in later years, say after the championships are decided, for drivers to drive in lower but related machinary? That would certainly clear up some debates about car vrs driver.

[Kaiser_Wull]

rubystone said:

In terms of pace, Grosjean is faster than Raikkonen, but then so is Hamilton, Vettel, Webber and on occasion, Alonso. Kimi has gone backwards on that. Whether that's down to a lack of ultimate fitness or the car, I don't know. But I can only speak for what I have seen on-track this year.

It is ONLY in the area of racecraft where Kimi's experience tells against Grosjean. But then one would expect that given his inexperience.

I see Grosjean at the same stage of his career as Massa was when he joined Ferrari from Sauber. Similar characteristics, similar problems, similar electrifying pace.

So no, I am "not kidding"

Grosjean ran into form when (a) the tyres specs changed, (b) Lotus introduced the LWB version of the E21 (the handling bias of which tends more towards understeer, Kimi's nemesis, than the SWB version) and (c) Raikkonen told Lotus that he's off to Ferrari.

It's no coincidence Raikkonen's qualifying performance improved that his very puiblic spat in India and, in particular, after he was given the SWB version of the E21 to run in Abu Dhabi. Correct me if I'm wrong (hint: I'm not) but didn't he outqualify Grosjean by the thick end of half a second?

So, if you're not kidding then you must be plain wrong - 'cos you sure as hell ain't right.

[Kaiser_Wull]

VolvoT5 said:

Kimi was going OK at the start of 2008, it was only when the politics started to kick in that his form dropped - gossip coming out that it would be too difficult to partner Kimi with Alonso and so on. Ferrari made it clear from early 2008 they wanted rid of him http://www.pitpass.com/public/article.php?fes_art_... .

Then if you believe the gossip you had Michael Schumacher messing around in the background, adding 'upgrade' parts to the car that Kimi didn't like or want.

I think it is more complicated than his head just dropping. This year again, things seem to have gone downhill from mid season when it became clear he was looking to get out of Lotus.

Kimi, like Jean Alesi before him, demands a pointy front end in order to deliver of his best.

The key to Kimi's loss of form in 2008 was the changes made to the suspension at mid-season. Prior to then, kimi looked a good bet to retain his title (Hamilton's brain fade in Canada, exhaust problems in France and Ferrari's bizzare decision at the first pit-stop at Silverstone notwithstanding).

The revised F2008 suited Massa well but didn't suit Kimi. He apparently asked for the old suspension set-up to be restored to his car but his quiet way of asking the team to do this fell on deaf ears - Ferrari being more used to slightly more, er, emotionally voiced demands being made of them. The proof of this came the following season when, after Massa's accident, the team had to take heed of Raikkonen's input. The F60, a dog of a car, became rather more competitive after that, in Kimi's hands at least. Lessons were learned by both camps.

[Vaud]

Kimi out for rest of season?

http://www.ts.fi/moottoriurheilu/f1/558601/The+bac...

Admittedly a single source, but Finnish. And would allow all parties to save face and a longer recovery for Kimi pre-Ferrari?

[Crafty_]

Didn't Kimi say he's agreed to see the season out ?