Spygate revisited
Discussion
What is hilarious is that the reckoned that the NotW took his dignity.
He bought women for sex. He bought women to beat. He bought women in order to humiliate them by checking them for lice whilst wearing prison garb, although, of course, not nazi-themed prison garb. And I won't mention what happened to the thermometer.
And he said that the effects of the revelations on his family of his sordid little life were the fault of NI (as was).
I remember some burglar telling the victim that it was their fault they got burgled as they left a window open.
He bought women for sex. He bought women to beat. He bought women in order to humiliate them by checking them for lice whilst wearing prison garb, although, of course, not nazi-themed prison garb. And I won't mention what happened to the thermometer.
And he said that the effects of the revelations on his family of his sordid little life were the fault of NI (as was).
I remember some burglar telling the victim that it was their fault they got burgled as they left a window open.
Derek Smith said:
007 VXR said:
If it can't be proved, How can you give them a big fine and loss of points ?
You want to be involved in police discipline. Informal resolution is when the police officer did everything right: no one likes a smart arse.I had to inform a PC the findings after a complaint against him and was surprised to find him surprised as well. He hadn't been informed, as the regs required, of the complaint and obviously had not even been asked what had happened.
Advice, a euphemism for abuse, is when something has gone wrong but the officer had no part of it and can prove it.
Admonish is reserved for a junior officer who followed orders when it all went breasts up.
The procedure was all about Mozzy trying to establish himself as boss. Ecclestone was, by then, perhaps a little distant and without his backing even with Mozzy's conceit, things must have looked a bit dodgy.
McLaren is, for some on here, a matter of faith, almost a religion. For others, just another (great) racing team who will stop at (virtually) nothing to win. I have more respect for them under the second heading.
Joffery666 said:
Mclaren are a bunch of robbing b
ds, who need to steel other peoples hard work to get anywhere. I won't be surprised they've got someone working for red bull currently, trying to rob more information.
I am not sure if that is a serious comment or not. If it is it would be interesting to understand your logic assuming you read anything about the spygate case, although that seems doubtful. ds, who need to steel other peoples hard work to get anywhere. I won't be surprised they've got someone working for red bull currently, trying to rob more information.deadslow said:
But Ron Dennis is not yer average policeman, and had massive resources at his disposal to refute all/any allegations. He was tossed out of the sport for his trouble.
McLaren is, for some on here, a matter of faith, almost a religion. For others, just another (great) racing team who will stop at (virtually) nothing to win. I have more respect for them under the second heading.
I think you are confusing normal life with F1. Mosely was in a position of absolute power, a!most certainly had a personal vendetta against Ron Dennis and decided to use his power in what I would describe as an absolutely corrupt manner. As Derek has said, there was nothing approaching evidence which would provide a basis to go to a normal court, the wording from the FIA stating that it was all supposition or circumstantial yet McLaren were found guilty and suffered a massive fine. McLaren is, for some on here, a matter of faith, almost a religion. For others, just another (great) racing team who will stop at (virtually) nothing to win. I have more respect for them under the second heading.
If anyone is in doubt about the findings I have a copy of the transcript without the redacted content if anyone is interested still.
andyps said:
.....
If anyone is in doubt about the findings I have a copy of the transcript without the redacted content if anyone is interested still.
I used to have a copy without the redacted content - wasn't it something very simple,(c&p into MS Word?) to read the full transcript.If anyone is in doubt about the findings I have a copy of the transcript without the redacted content if anyone is interested still.
I think it was deliberately made very simple to get round because Mosley wanted that way as most of the redacted stuff were McLaren 'secrets'.
jimKRFC said:
Can't remember who's quoted as saying it but MM was reported to have said "5 million for the offence and 95 for being Ron Dennis".
The sentiment is right, I suspect the figures should be more like £50 for the offence and £99,999,950 for Mosley's jealousy of the success of Ron Dennis.deadslow said:
But Ron Dennis is not yer average policeman, and had massive resources at his disposal to refute all/any allegations. He was tossed out of the sport for his trouble.
and deadslow said:
I think you are confusing F1 with some kind of kids' fantasy game. Big, grown up guys rolled the dice and took the consequences. Pity the fans cannot respect this.
It's the only game in town. Mosley was in charge. There was nothing that McL could do. He would have been tossed out of the sport had he refused to bend the knee, that was the point of my 'policeman' anecdote. Sorry it was too obscure for you. I'm not sure what 'dice' you think Dennis rolled.
Neither am I sure you understand the procedures of the FIA if you think merely being in the right, or having money, is enough. That is whimsy indeed. Dennis did indeed refute almost all the allegations, and certainly all the important ones, the ones in dispute. But, of course, that didn't matter. The fabulously expensive enquiry into whether McL had use of all or any of the data came up with zilch. All they got was the use by two drivers, one who wasn't even on speaking terms with Dennis, using data about set-up, and they told them that. Ironically, Alonso spoke more to Mosley than Dennis at the time.
Mosley took on Dennis. Some suggest his dislike for the man centred on the fact that Dennis made it from spannering to the top of the sport whereas Mosley, for all his massive advantages, didn't really succeed at anything. He failed big time in politics. Some say, as if it is fact, that he's a good lawyer but the opinion of the most successful libel lawyer in this country was somewhat different. He was the also-ran in March and then had to have the assistance of a common or garden second-hand motorcycle dealer, from the East End no less, to get a position of authority. I bet Mosley cringed every time they spoke, perhaps even reminding himself that Ecclestone was from East Anglia originally. Even then, once he decided to go his own way and not follow directions of the cleverer man, it all turned to dust. He's a parody of himself with he moaning to Leveson and going to France to attack Google.
Mosley won the battle but then the writing was on the wall. He was out.
Someone who knew about his sexual predilections put him away to the papers and that was, in essence, it.
Dennis played the hand he had, or rather probably gave it to lawyers to limit the damage. That said, the rejection of the findings of Mosley showed that he wasn't going to do everything the lawyers said.
Dennis is many things but he is not the failure Mosely is. The latter took over motor sport and after just a few years, well look at it now.
I'm a fan of Dennis, as well as Tyrell, Brabham, Cooper, Williams, Head and Chapman. And others whose contributions to the sport have largely been well on the positive. The big boys, the men. Which excludes Mosley.
Espionage in F1 or any other front line technology is rife. To think anything else is naive.
The difference this time was that Mosley with the support of Ecclestone, for whatever reason, wanted to bring McLaren down a few pegs.
Toyota employees were as much as imprisoned by the Italian authorities for similar, yet no FIA action. For some reason McLaren were dealt with by the FIA. Why?
It was a hatchet job, plain and simple.
The difference this time was that Mosley with the support of Ecclestone, for whatever reason, wanted to bring McLaren down a few pegs.
Toyota employees were as much as imprisoned by the Italian authorities for similar, yet no FIA action. For some reason McLaren were dealt with by the FIA. Why?
It was a hatchet job, plain and simple.
10 Pence Short said:
Espionage in F1 or any other front line technology is rife. To think anything else is naive.
The difference this time was that Mosley with the support of Ecclestone, for whatever reason, wanted to bring McLaren down a few pegs.
Toyota employees were as much as imprisoned by the Italian authorities for similar, yet no FIA action. For some reason McLaren were dealt with by the FIA. Why?
It was a hatchet job, plain and simple.
Indeed. The difference this time was that Mosley with the support of Ecclestone, for whatever reason, wanted to bring McLaren down a few pegs.
Toyota employees were as much as imprisoned by the Italian authorities for similar, yet no FIA action. For some reason McLaren were dealt with by the FIA. Why?
It was a hatchet job, plain and simple.
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