Halo's; just when you thought it was safe
Discussion
When the halo was first announced I thought like most, it was a hideous, ridiculous thing. It's definitely a knee jerk, but by hurriedly committing to something for 2018, the FIA cannot then be seen to be backing down on safety. The politics of that is another discussion. But I'm pretty sure within a few races of next year, we'll be used to it and won't give it a second thought. If you go and look at a 2014 car going round a track, they look bloody daft - rear wing too narrow and high, track too narrow; but we'd got used to them and never mentioned the proportions. I think the halo will soon become 'the norm' , and you never know, it just might stop a driver being killed. A few months of hand wringing and internet angst is not much of a price to pay really.
The Moose said:
Doink said:
Note to Mr Todt, the majority of folk who follow F1know who's leading the championship, who's second, fifth, seventh, tenth and eighteenth, we don't need to be told by the colour of their car now, I would much rather you concentrate on making sure the next set of rules are written so that cars could follow each other closely like your new F2 cars do instead of trying to find a problem for your solution
Maybe regular followers do (although I do occasionally get mixed up with 2 drivers in the same team).I suspect they are trying to attract new and/or more casual viewers in which things like this could be helpful.
Jinba Ittai said:
When the halo was first announced I thought like most, it was a hideous, ridiculous thing. It's definitely a knee jerk, but by hurriedly committing to something for 2018, the FIA cannot then be seen to be backing down on safety. The politics of that is another discussion. But I'm pretty sure within a few races of next year, we'll be used to it and won't give it a second thought. If you go and look at a 2014 car going round a track, they look bloody daft - rear wing too narrow and high, track too narrow; but we'd got used to them and never mentioned the proportions. I think the halo will soon become 'the norm' , and you never know, it just might stop a driver being killed. A few months of hand wringing and internet angst is not much of a price to pay really.
And what is going to be the reaction when an accident deformed halo traps a driver inside an upturned, burning car ? corozin said:
Jinba Ittai said:
When the halo was first announced I thought like most, it was a hideous, ridiculous thing. It's definitely a knee jerk, but by hurriedly committing to something for 2018, the FIA cannot then be seen to be backing down on safety. The politics of that is another discussion. But I'm pretty sure within a few races of next year, we'll be used to it and won't give it a second thought. If you go and look at a 2014 car going round a track, they look bloody daft - rear wing too narrow and high, track too narrow; but we'd got used to them and never mentioned the proportions. I think the halo will soon become 'the norm' , and you never know, it just might stop a driver being killed. A few months of hand wringing and internet angst is not much of a price to pay really.
And what is going to be the reaction when an accident deformed halo traps a driver inside an upturned, burning car ? Edited by Jinba Ittai on Friday 8th September 09:11
I can think of plenty of circumstances where a halo device could be deformed which would not have automatically resulted in fatal injuries to the driver if the halo had not been there.
I can also think of circumstances where the halo itself could bring about injuries to the occupant of the car.
It is a misguided step and reinforces my decision to give up on modern F1.
I can also think of circumstances where the halo itself could bring about injuries to the occupant of the car.
It is a misguided step and reinforces my decision to give up on modern F1.
It's laughable that people at this stage think they can so easily poke holes in the safety case for the Halo, it has been extensively tested and it's impact on a multitude of scenarios has been studied and simulated, extraction of drivers from inverted and righted cars has been practiced. The effect of Halo on safety is neutral at worst.
You don't have to like it.
You don't have to like it.
Eric Mc said:
I can think of plenty of circumstances where a halo device could be deformed which would not have automatically resulted in fatal injuries to the driver if the halo had not been there.
I can also think of circumstances where the halo itself could bring about injuries to the occupant of the car.
It is a misguided step and reinforces my decision to give up on modern F1.
Totally agree.I can also think of circumstances where the halo itself could bring about injuries to the occupant of the car.
It is a misguided step and reinforces my decision to give up on modern F1.
Monza is the first race I have not watched. Not even the highlights.
The "Halo" is the final straw but things have only been getting worse even before this was announced.
I really can't believe people would spend their hard earned money on watching F1 now.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 8th September 17:20
This is the laughable thing about the FIA
When BMW Sauber turned up at the 2006 French Grand Prix its cars had a couple of new winglets – two vertical strakes, or ‘twin towers’ as they became known mounted above the suspension.
The idea was that they would direct airflow to more important parts of the car, but any benefit they gave was short lived. Following the race FIA banned them on the basis that they obstructed visibility.
The "Halo" should be banned for obstructing visibility!!!
When BMW Sauber turned up at the 2006 French Grand Prix its cars had a couple of new winglets – two vertical strakes, or ‘twin towers’ as they became known mounted above the suspension.
The idea was that they would direct airflow to more important parts of the car, but any benefit they gave was short lived. Following the race FIA banned them on the basis that they obstructed visibility.
The "Halo" should be banned for obstructing visibility!!!
ELUSIVEJIM said:
This is the laughable thing about the FIA
When BMW Sauber turned up at the 2006 French Grand Prix its cars had a couple of new winglets – two vertical strakes, or ‘twin towers’ as they became known mounted above the suspension.
The idea was that they would direct airflow to more important parts of the car, but any benefit they gave was short lived. Following the race FIA banned them on the basis that they obstructed visibility.
The "Halo" should be banned for obstructing visibility!!!
I don't specifically wish to pick a hole in this argument , because the potential hypocrisy of the FIA in your example is plain to see. However, there is a substantial difference in the distance of those winglets to the driver's eyes and the distance of the halo to the driver's eyes, and the effect each would have on a driver's vision. When BMW Sauber turned up at the 2006 French Grand Prix its cars had a couple of new winglets – two vertical strakes, or ‘twin towers’ as they became known mounted above the suspension.
The idea was that they would direct airflow to more important parts of the car, but any benefit they gave was short lived. Following the race FIA banned them on the basis that they obstructed visibility.
The "Halo" should be banned for obstructing visibility!!!
To cite another imperfect example as a counter argument, when was the last time you noticed your nose in front of your face? It actually takes up quite a significant part of your field of vision, but your brain has learned to ignore it and to all intents and purposes, it's not there.
When all is said and done, we will see in time how effective halo is, and what, if any negatives there are in its application. I fear the 'I'm done with F1' sentiment is as much of a knee jerk reaction as the introduction of the halo in the first place.
Jinba Ittai said:
I don't specifically wish to pick a hole in this argument , because the potential hypocrisy of the FIA in your example is plain to see. However, there is a substantial difference in the distance of those winglets to the driver's eyes and the distance of the halo to the driver's eyes, and the effect each would have on a driver's vision.
To cite another imperfect example as a counter argument, when was the last time you noticed your nose in front of your face? It actually takes up quite a significant part of your field of vision, but your brain has learned to ignore it and to all intents and purposes, it's not there.
When all is said and done, we will see in time how effective halo is, and what, if any negatives there are in its application. I fear the 'I'm done with F1' sentiment is as much of a knee jerk reaction as the introduction of the halo in the first place.
I don't think that the FIA are necessarily hypocritical. The halo is there for reasons of safety. There is a cost but the legislators and rule makers have to balance advantage and disadvantage. With those awful towers, there was no safety advantage at all. Further, and more importantly for me, they looked awful.To cite another imperfect example as a counter argument, when was the last time you noticed your nose in front of your face? It actually takes up quite a significant part of your field of vision, but your brain has learned to ignore it and to all intents and purposes, it's not there.
When all is said and done, we will see in time how effective halo is, and what, if any negatives there are in its application. I fear the 'I'm done with F1' sentiment is as much of a knee jerk reaction as the introduction of the halo in the first place.
I'm with you. The 'I'm out' protestations are not carried through, unfortunately in the case of one poster. Those who give up on the sport just fade away.
I don't like the halo device. I think it too distracts from the visual appeal, but there is much else that has over the years and I've got used to those. I expect to get used to this, daubed in yellow or not. I can, and do, sympathise with the organisers. They are liable if they fail to take reasonable precautions for the safety of all those involved in an F1 race. They have every right to protect themselves.
Mind you, why not have totally enclosed cockpits? All we see nowadays are gaudily painted helmets, we don't see the driver.
For what it's worth I have no problem with the idea of protecting the drivers heads. I think this is a clumsy and inelegant solution though and I'm not a fan for that reason.
I don't buy into the argument that F1's "purity" is being eroded ot whatever, there have been countless other tweaks and changes over the years that have taken F1 away from what it once was imo.
I can see why some people are at the end of their tethers with F1 but I think that is due to a multitude of factors, with this being the last straw. I doubt many people would be keen to 'give up' on F1 just because of the Halo if everything else about the sport was good.
I don't buy into the argument that F1's "purity" is being eroded ot whatever, there have been countless other tweaks and changes over the years that have taken F1 away from what it once was imo.
I can see why some people are at the end of their tethers with F1 but I think that is due to a multitude of factors, with this being the last straw. I doubt many people would be keen to 'give up' on F1 just because of the Halo if everything else about the sport was good.
24lemons said:
For what it's worth I have no problem with the idea of protecting the drivers heads. I think this is a clumsy and inelegant solution though and I'm not a fan for that reason.
I don't buy into the argument that F1's "purity" is being eroded ot whatever, there have been countless other tweaks and changes over the years that have taken F1 away from what it once was imo.
I can see why some people are at the end of their tethers with F1 but I think that is due to a multitude of factors, with this being the last straw. I doubt many people would be keen to 'give up' on F1 just because of the Halo if everything else about the sport was good.
I struggle with the suggestion that recent times have been dreadful for the sport. Despite the Merc being dominant over recent seasons we've had seasons that went down to the wire, with some fantastic duels further back. This season, with two makes neck and neck, is quite thrilling. I accept that Monza was a bit of a bore fest but every season has had a lot of these. I don't buy into the argument that F1's "purity" is being eroded ot whatever, there have been countless other tweaks and changes over the years that have taken F1 away from what it once was imo.
I can see why some people are at the end of their tethers with F1 but I think that is due to a multitude of factors, with this being the last straw. I doubt many people would be keen to 'give up' on F1 just because of the Halo if everything else about the sport was good.
Silverstone, for instance, was classical in its development, with a beginning, middle and end. The last few laps were thrilling. For those who look carefully at what's going on, the early tyre stop for Vettel was a tick, tick, tick all the way through. Or rather not all the way through, just to the punctures. One of these a season is what might have made previous season.
The total dominance of the sport in the Ferrari/Brawn/Schumacher years nearly killed it for me, but I stayed. At the moment I can't see why anyone would find this season boring.
Derek Smith said:
I struggle with the suggestion that recent times have been dreadful for the sport. At the moment I can't see why anyone would find this season boring.
Absolutely agree. I sometimes wonder exactly what people want from F1. Even with Mercedes dominating the last few years, they let their drivers race and we have had some belting races. This year is very finely balanced between Mercedes and Ferrari and I really have no idea whether it will be Vettel or Hamilton who will win this season. Liberty Media have taken over and are very clearly pushing the sport in a new direction of accessibility, and Brawn and co have already started making changes to the sporting regs to improve the racing. Liberty Media obviously are there to make money from F1, but to quote Stuart Codling from Autosport - "you tend to get more juice out if you let it grow first". Derek Smith said:
I struggle with the suggestion that recent times have been dreadful for the sport. Despite the Merc being dominant over recent seasons we've had seasons that went down to the wire, with some fantastic duels further back. This season, with two makes neck and neck, is quite thrilling. I accept that Monza was a bit of a bore fest but every season has had a lot of these.
Silverstone, for instance, was classical in its development, with a beginning, middle and end. The last few laps were thrilling. For those who look carefully at what's going on, the early tyre stop for Vettel was a tick, tick, tick all the way through. Or rather not all the way through, just to the punctures. One of these a season is what might have made previous season.
The total dominance of the sport in the Ferrari/Brawn/Schumacher years nearly killed it for me, but I stayed. At the moment I can't see why anyone would find this season boring.
There are so many issue with modern F1 it takes too long to state them all.Silverstone, for instance, was classical in its development, with a beginning, middle and end. The last few laps were thrilling. For those who look carefully at what's going on, the early tyre stop for Vettel was a tick, tick, tick all the way through. Or rather not all the way through, just to the punctures. One of these a season is what might have made previous season.
The total dominance of the sport in the Ferrari/Brawn/Schumacher years nearly killed it for me, but I stayed. At the moment I can't see why anyone would find this season boring.
If the Ferrari/Brawn/Schumacher years were bad then the Mercedes years have been pretty close.
The difference seems to be the following.
F1 is good because my driver is doing well.
I am sure Schumacher fans enjoyed the Schumacher years while non fans had a nightmare.
Still does not mean the sport is failing.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
If the Ferrari/Brawn/Schumacher years were bad then the Mercedes years have been pretty close.
The difference seems to be the following.
F1 is good because my driver is doing well.
I am sure Schumacher fans enjoyed the Schumacher years while non fans had a nightmare.
To put it nicely, much of that is rubbish. The difference seems to be the following.
F1 is good because my driver is doing well.
I am sure Schumacher fans enjoyed the Schumacher years while non fans had a nightmare.
There is little similarity between the Ferrari dominance and that of Merc.
Ferrari were a one man team. Everything was sacrificed to that end, especially the other driver. In the Merc years we had fights at the front for most of that time. At the beginning of this season we had the same, but now, it seems, Merc has capitulated to pressure and now they have a #1 driver. Not to worry though, Ferrari are there challenging.
As for 'my driver is doing well'; well! I don't follow drivers. I support a team and even when they were doing badly I still enjoyed the sport. I think, perhaps, you might be describing yourself.
If you think that F1 is all about a favoured driver coming first then perhaps I see the reasons for your continued anti-F1 diatribes.
Derek Smith said:
To put it nicely, much of that is rubbish.
There is little similarity between the Ferrari dominance and that of Merc.
Ferrari were a one man team. Everything was sacrificed to that end, especially the other driver. In the Merc years we had fights at the front for most of that time. At the beginning of this season we had the same, but now, it seems, Merc has capitulated to pressure and now they have a #1 driver. Not to worry though, Ferrari are there challenging.
As for 'my driver is doing well'; well! I don't follow drivers. I support a team and even when they were doing badly I still enjoyed the sport. I think, perhaps, you might be describing yourself.
If you think that F1 is all about a favoured driver coming first then perhaps I see the reasons for your continued anti-F1 diatribes.
Do you really think Mercedes is not a one man team?There is little similarity between the Ferrari dominance and that of Merc.
Ferrari were a one man team. Everything was sacrificed to that end, especially the other driver. In the Merc years we had fights at the front for most of that time. At the beginning of this season we had the same, but now, it seems, Merc has capitulated to pressure and now they have a #1 driver. Not to worry though, Ferrari are there challenging.
As for 'my driver is doing well'; well! I don't follow drivers. I support a team and even when they were doing badly I still enjoyed the sport. I think, perhaps, you might be describing yourself.
If you think that F1 is all about a favoured driver coming first then perhaps I see the reasons for your continued anti-F1 diatribes.
Rosberg surprised Hamilton in 2016 but no one would call Rosberg a great.
Bottas is the perfect number two for Hamilton and Mercedes.
Clearly after Rosberg upsetting things in 2016 the team wanted to make sure it was a clear 1-2 team.
Jinba Ittai said:
Don't feed the troll Derek. 
Irritatingly, I know it is futile. Still I made my point.All jokes (not to mention nonsensical logic) to one side, this is poised nicely. It is too close to call. If you read the sensible commentators, they all hedge their bets and predictions are based on a lot of ifs. So I'll follow their example; if Singapore favours the Ferrari as much as some say, LH could lose 10 points, and a later win would put him level if Vettel gets second.
A friend of mine was bewildered by Merc tactics in Austria and despite being something of an LH fan he reckoned that they deserved to fail. 'They've learnt nothing from Brawn's days at Ferrari.' He's calmed a bit now but I wonder if they will rue the decision.
We might be experiencing a season that in 10 years time F1 fans will talk about with a degree of awe.
I don't get all the hatred for the halo. What difference does it make to your enjoyment of the sport as a spectator? Unless of course you watch F1 to watch horrific accidents and see people die. If that's the case then let's go back to no seatbelt and tin hats because that's real racing right?
What matters is the quality of the racing and a halo device, regardless of colour, has no impact on that.
What matters is the quality of the racing and a halo device, regardless of colour, has no impact on that.
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