Renault to terminate contract with Red Bull
Discussion
aeropilot said:
I suspect with an ex-Reggie man in Eric Boullier at McLaren Renault will probably feel they will have a better relationship with McL than can be at RB with the attitude that RB have had over the past few years.
That's a good point. So maybe Boullier has done something useful for McLaren afterall.aeropilot said:
I suspect with an ex-Reggie man in Eric Boullier at McLaren Renault will probably feel they will have a better relationship with McL than can be at RB with the attitude that RB have had over the past few years.
Plus I can't seen Stoffel being a shouty little brat about the engines like Verstappen has been.
sandman77 said:
You know how Eddie Jordan (I know..I know) keeps banging on about how Mercedes will sell the F1 team? If this was true I'm sure they (Mercedes) would still want their engine competing for championship wins. Could EJ be right? Red Bull Mercedes anyone?
Don't see that happening... Eddie floated that gem 3 or 4 races back, Later Toto confirmed Mercedes and Petronas had signed a new long term deal and confirmed they'd be sticking around. Plus, why unveil the Mercedes P1, eh Project One, and then do a Rosberg? Personally I think, though his intel is usually on the money, EJ is wrong this time.You reap what you sow, even with all the terrible issues with the Honda, McLaren have been for the majority of the time supportive of them. Alonso has been very vocal obviously, but McLaren as an organisation have tried their best to keep the partnership on track.
Contrast this with the incessant shaming of Renault by Marco in particular.
Red Bull had a veto on McLaren getting the Renault engine, as soon as they didn't exercise that veto and allowed McLaren to have the Renault engine, Renault dropped them. They have been waiting for a way to do this and here it is.
So now Renault have two of the top teams and no Marco to poison the well, Renault as a works team are only going one way and that's up, as that group of guys always have when the budget was there, McLaren the same. Red Bull will have potentially the weakest engine package and if Newey continues to not concentrate 100% on the F1 program they may drop back on the chassis side also.
Interesting times.
Contrast this with the incessant shaming of Renault by Marco in particular.
Red Bull had a veto on McLaren getting the Renault engine, as soon as they didn't exercise that veto and allowed McLaren to have the Renault engine, Renault dropped them. They have been waiting for a way to do this and here it is.
So now Renault have two of the top teams and no Marco to poison the well, Renault as a works team are only going one way and that's up, as that group of guys always have when the budget was there, McLaren the same. Red Bull will have potentially the weakest engine package and if Newey continues to not concentrate 100% on the F1 program they may drop back on the chassis side also.
Interesting times.
I was reading Joe Saward's blog a few dayys ago. He is convinced that Red Bull are winding down their interest in F1. TR is for sale, we all know that. He also thinks that if anyone was to offer actual money for RBR then Mates
tz would sell - perhaps staying on as a sponsor for a few years.
It does seem that Horner has been a little too cock-sure about the Honda deal. I mean he did all but slander Renault in the early Turbo days.
Karma.
tz would sell - perhaps staying on as a sponsor for a few years.It does seem that Horner has been a little too cock-sure about the Honda deal. I mean he did all but slander Renault in the early Turbo days.
Karma.
This smacks of Renault dumping Red Bull before Red Bull could dump them to save face. With the rumours surrounding Porsche either buying Red Bull outright or at least supplying engines from that point onwards, and the option for Red Bull to also switch to Honda power if the Porsche deal doesn't come off, Renault would have seen the writing on the wall.
This has left Red Bull in a much weaker position negotiating with Porsche, no longer can they play off Renault, Honda and Porsche against each other. Honda are a wild card with their current track record and Porsche will use that to their advantage.
I know the engine in the new Merc hyper car isn't exactly the same as the F1 engine, but I do find it very funny that Merc said they couldn't make enough F1 engines to supply either Red Bull or McLaren yet are now making several hundred copies of this engine.
This has left Red Bull in a much weaker position negotiating with Porsche, no longer can they play off Renault, Honda and Porsche against each other. Honda are a wild card with their current track record and Porsche will use that to their advantage.
I know the engine in the new Merc hyper car isn't exactly the same as the F1 engine, but I do find it very funny that Merc said they couldn't make enough F1 engines to supply either Red Bull or McLaren yet are now making several hundred copies of this engine.
Wait, surely they get their power units from Nissan based upon all the Infiniti badging on the car?? ;-)
That sponsorship arrangement always seemed a bit odd to me given the fact they do not provide the power unit to RBR (or anyone else), and as far as I know Infiniti don't have any vehicles in any race series of note.
That sponsorship arrangement always seemed a bit odd to me given the fact they do not provide the power unit to RBR (or anyone else), and as far as I know Infiniti don't have any vehicles in any race series of note.
mko9 said:
Wait, surely they get their power units from Nissan based upon all the Infiniti badging on the car?? ;-)
That sponsorship arrangement always seemed a bit odd to me given the fact they do not provide the power unit to RBR (or anyone else), and as far as I know Infiniti don't have any vehicles in any race series of note.
You don't understand how sponsorship and marketing works.That sponsorship arrangement always seemed a bit odd to me given the fact they do not provide the power unit to RBR (or anyone else), and as far as I know Infiniti don't have any vehicles in any race series of note.
suffolk009 said:
I was reading Joe Saward's blog a few dayys ago. He is convinced that Red Bull are winding down their interest in F1. TR is for sale, we all know that. He also thinks that if anyone was to offer actual money for RBR then Matestz would sell - perhaps staying on as a sponsor for a few years.
It does seem that Horner has been a little too cock-sure about the Honda deal. I mean he did all but slander Renault in the early Turbo days.
Karma.
Indeed. Revenge is a dish best served cold and all that. Looks like Renault have been calmly waiting for 3 years to serve this one up.tz would sell - perhaps staying on as a sponsor for a few years.It does seem that Horner has been a little too cock-sure about the Honda deal. I mean he did all but slander Renault in the early Turbo days.
Karma.
mko9 said:
Wait, surely they get their power units from Nissan based upon all the Infiniti badging on the car?? ;-)
That sponsorship arrangement always seemed a bit odd to me given the fact they do not provide the power unit to RBR (or anyone else), and as far as I know Infiniti don't have any vehicles in any race series of note.
Its the same as all those nissan engines racing at le mans...all built at Repton in Derbyshire by Gibson (formerly Zytek). Never been anywhere near Nissan factory. That sponsorship arrangement always seemed a bit odd to me given the fact they do not provide the power unit to RBR (or anyone else), and as far as I know Infiniti don't have any vehicles in any race series of note.
thegreenhell said:
Any Porsche deal would start when the next rules begin in 2021, leaving Red Bull with a two year gap with no other engine option but Honda.
Toro Rosso's Honda deal is 3 years according to Autosport, 2018-2020. So it will be Honda for 2019-2020 after they finish with Renault next year. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131790/toro-ross...It's an intriguing development but I think there's a lot of short-sightedness going on.
Yes, Honda have been woeful thus far but they have to get it at least close to right at some point.
How many people (me included) scoffed when Lewis Hamilton signed for Mercedes who were pretty much nowhere?
OK, so there was a rule change.
But would you have believed me if I'd pulled you to one side after the 2016 British GP, when he finished 9th and nearly lapped, that Vettel would be challenging for the title in 2017?
Things can change pretty fast.
I'd be surprised if Honda are leading the way with engines before the next rule change in 2021, but I can see a lot more parity amongst engines as we head past 2018.
With works support, RB might not be so worse off after all and the engines will be free.
McLaren have had too much pain to stick with it. They can't afford another year of embarassment.
RB can stick the engine in the Toro Rosso for a year out of the limelight, then (hopefully) take it after 18 months more development time.
So, whilst I don't think Red Bull would have chosen to put all their eggs in the Honda basket, it might not be such a bad thing.
Yes, Honda have been woeful thus far but they have to get it at least close to right at some point.
How many people (me included) scoffed when Lewis Hamilton signed for Mercedes who were pretty much nowhere?
OK, so there was a rule change.
But would you have believed me if I'd pulled you to one side after the 2016 British GP, when he finished 9th and nearly lapped, that Vettel would be challenging for the title in 2017?
Things can change pretty fast.
I'd be surprised if Honda are leading the way with engines before the next rule change in 2021, but I can see a lot more parity amongst engines as we head past 2018.
With works support, RB might not be so worse off after all and the engines will be free.
McLaren have had too much pain to stick with it. They can't afford another year of embarassment.
RB can stick the engine in the Toro Rosso for a year out of the limelight, then (hopefully) take it after 18 months more development time.
So, whilst I don't think Red Bull would have chosen to put all their eggs in the Honda basket, it might not be such a bad thing.
jsf said:
mko9 said:
Wait, surely they get their power units from Nissan based upon all the Infiniti badging on the car?? ;-)
That sponsorship arrangement always seemed a bit odd to me given the fact they do not provide the power unit to RBR (or anyone else), and as far as I know Infiniti don't have any vehicles in any race series of note.
You don't understand how sponsorship and marketing works.That sponsorship arrangement always seemed a bit odd to me given the fact they do not provide the power unit to RBR (or anyone else), and as far as I know Infiniti don't have any vehicles in any race series of note.
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