Mind blown - real reason behind modern mickey mouse circuits
Discussion
HarryFlatters said:
Silverstone doesn't have many elevation changes, and it's pretty good.
Not to me. Even in it's earlier permutations I felt it a rather boring circuit. It did have out and out speed - but even that has been neutered in the more recent permutations.My favourites have always had significant elevation changes and long sweeping bends - Spa, old Austria, Suzuka, Brands Hatch and even Cadwell Park.
Eric Mc said:
Not to me. Even in it's earlier permutations I felt it a rather boring circuit. It did have out and out speed - but even that has been neutered in the more recent permutations.
My favourites have always had significant elevation changes and long sweeping bends - Spa, old Austria, Suzuka, Brands Hatch and even Cadwell Park.
Glad it’s not just me that doesn’t like modern Silverstone.My favourites have always had significant elevation changes and long sweeping bends - Spa, old Austria, Suzuka, Brands Hatch and even Cadwell Park.
Vaud said:
Eric Mc said:
Not to me. Even in it's earlier permutations I felt it a rather boring circuit. It did have out and out speed - but even that has been neutered in the more recent permutations.
My favourites have always had significant elevation changes and long sweeping bends - Spa, old Austria, Suzuka, Brands Hatch and even Cadwell Park.
Glad it’s not just me that doesn’t like modern Silverstone.My favourites have always had significant elevation changes and long sweeping bends - Spa, old Austria, Suzuka, Brands Hatch and even Cadwell Park.
The Hangar Straight, Copse, Maggotts, Becketts and Chapel etc are all famous but very little overtaking happens at any of them......
Personally, I like some of the new bits, the first 3 corners are quite good to drive.
Vaud said:
Eric Mc said:
Not to me. Even in it's earlier permutations I felt it a rather boring circuit. It did have out and out speed - but even that has been neutered in the more recent permutations.
My favourites have always had significant elevation changes and long sweeping bends - Spa, old Austria, Suzuka, Brands Hatch and even Cadwell Park.
Glad it’s not just me that doesn’t like modern Silverstone.My favourites have always had significant elevation changes and long sweeping bends - Spa, old Austria, Suzuka, Brands Hatch and even Cadwell Park.
Eric Mc said:
I've driven Silverstone (a few years before the new pit complex was built) and I found it less than inspiring. I've also driven Brands Hatch and Mallory Park. I loved both.
Agree - It is a high speed circuit and not really a drivers one (unless you are in an F1 car).I much prefer Cadwell, Brands and Donington over Silverstone as a driver. That said, if I was to drive an F1 car, I'd much rather do it at Silverstone.
8V085 said:
If you've ever wondered why we can't have circuits with fast sweeping corners any more and why F1 loves long straights combined with slow corners/chicanes a youtube comment left under a video showing a lap of old superfast Silverstone might have an answer.
Here's the vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-tDO_LdUGs
Back in a jiffyyoutube comment said:
New Silverstone has lost its aura, its soul, everything that made it great. This is an emence track and Bernie and Tilke have a lot to answer for. They like long straights and slooooow corners because its easier to zoom in on the sponsors.
Obviously, Tilke didn't do the redesign but still, it could make sense. I'm going to put my tinfoil hat on.Here's the vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-tDO_LdUGs
I need to fill up with some BP
Cheers
The Turkish track is superb & a good one to ride too, I'm not sure about the reason though, I remember reading that no new F1 track can have positive cambered corners hence all new tracks having a tricky off camber corner & there are some other restrictions.
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Wednesday 6th December 21:24
ZX10R NIN said:
The Turkish track is superb & a good one to ride too, I'm not sure about the reason though, I remember reading that no new F1 track can have cambered corners hence all new tracks having a tricky off camber corner & there are some other restrictions.
This statement seems to contradict itself.I think that a lot of the modern tracks are the epitome of the regular paradox we have these days of things being 'technically' better but a result of which is that they end up being 'worse'.
Take Brands for example. The track was originally created for grass track motorcycle racing, the track no doubt pegged out in a semi-arbitary way by a few blokes who thought that a certain flow might make for an interesting challenge. When they decided to lay tarmac, this just followed that initial course and as a result, the circuit has a 'natural' flow to it.
Tilke circuits are subject to committee decisions, computer modelling, health and safety requirements and commercial considerations.
Analogue and Digital.
Take Brands for example. The track was originally created for grass track motorcycle racing, the track no doubt pegged out in a semi-arbitary way by a few blokes who thought that a certain flow might make for an interesting challenge. When they decided to lay tarmac, this just followed that initial course and as a result, the circuit has a 'natural' flow to it.
Tilke circuits are subject to committee decisions, computer modelling, health and safety requirements and commercial considerations.
Analogue and Digital.
Long straights followed by lowish speed bends is a common theme because the DRS and the big stop are supposed to create overtaking opportunities. Long, fast, left / right / left sequences a la Japan / Silverstone / COTA not so much.
Somebody has got it in their head that we need a large number of overtakes for the racing to be entertaining. Witness recent reports that overtaking has 'slumped' to 'only four hundred and something' this season...
Meanwhile the cars are, as ever, sprouting more and more aero appendages...
I wouldn't have guessed overtaking has reduced by half in recent years. I didn't notice- because we had good racing. Who gives a stuff about one car breezing past another on the straight with am 18kph DRS advantage?
Somebody has got it in their head that we need a large number of overtakes for the racing to be entertaining. Witness recent reports that overtaking has 'slumped' to 'only four hundred and something' this season...
Meanwhile the cars are, as ever, sprouting more and more aero appendages...
I wouldn't have guessed overtaking has reduced by half in recent years. I didn't notice- because we had good racing. Who gives a stuff about one car breezing past another on the straight with am 18kph DRS advantage?
things F1 tracks need:
variable width tracks to allow more flexible lines on corner entry and exit, current widths are great for motogp, they can follow more closely then block pass on the apex running a completely different line but this isnt possible in current F1.
Slippy run offs that properly penalize drivers who take it too far but allow them to rejoin the race. Unfortunately most F1 tracks also do MotoGP and they need solid sticky run offs to prevent injury from bikes digging in and flipping. Low adhesion runoffs would work but getting a balance between slippy in the dry and non-lethal in the wet would be nigh on impossible.
variable width tracks to allow more flexible lines on corner entry and exit, current widths are great for motogp, they can follow more closely then block pass on the apex running a completely different line but this isnt possible in current F1.
Slippy run offs that properly penalize drivers who take it too far but allow them to rejoin the race. Unfortunately most F1 tracks also do MotoGP and they need solid sticky run offs to prevent injury from bikes digging in and flipping. Low adhesion runoffs would work but getting a balance between slippy in the dry and non-lethal in the wet would be nigh on impossible.
HustleRussell said:
Who gives a stuff about one car breezing past another on the straight with am 18kph DRS advantage?
90% of the people who post on here for a start. Count the number of "that was a boring race, no one overtook anyone" posts that accompany every post-race thread.To many, the quality/excitement of a race is purely down to the number of overtakes that happen
boyse7en said:
HustleRussell said:
Who gives a stuff about one car breezing past another on the straight with am 18kph DRS advantage?
90% of the people who post on here for a start. Count the number of "that was a boring race, no one overtook anyone" posts that accompany every post-race thread.To many, the quality/excitement of a race is purely down to the number of overtakes that happen
Modern overtaking achieved through DRS is plain crap because it doesn't allow for much defence. Had F1 deployed a form of powerboost that could be used by all drivers at all times (to gain advantage and to defend) it would have been much more natural. Restrict the amount of powerboost available per race to a 200/300 seconds and it would add even more natural drama.
HustleRussell said:
Meanwhile the cars are, as ever, sprouting more and more aero appendages...
I wouldn't have guessed overtaking has reduced by half in recent years. I didn't notice- because we had good racing. Who gives a stuff about one car breezing past another on the straight with am 18kph DRS advantage?
Agreed on that DRS works best with current aero and tyre package.I wouldn't have guessed overtaking has reduced by half in recent years. I didn't notice- because we had good racing. Who gives a stuff about one car breezing past another on the straight with am 18kph DRS advantage?
DRS previously over-emphasised the performance differentials of the tyres/cars and you'd see people easily breeze by the outside and not having to struggle in the braking zone. There's been far less of that this year.
andburg said:
things F1 tracks need:
variable width tracks to allow more flexible lines on corner entry and exit, current widths are great for motogp, they can follow more closely then block pass on the apex running a completely different line but this isnt possible in current F1.
Slippy run offs that properly penalize drivers who take it too far but allow them to rejoin the race. Unfortunately most F1 tracks also do MotoGP and they need solid sticky run offs to prevent injury from bikes digging in and flipping. Low adhesion runoffs would work but getting a balance between slippy in the dry and non-lethal in the wet would be nigh on impossible.
Austin texas is a great new track with that.variable width tracks to allow more flexible lines on corner entry and exit, current widths are great for motogp, they can follow more closely then block pass on the apex running a completely different line but this isnt possible in current F1.
Slippy run offs that properly penalize drivers who take it too far but allow them to rejoin the race. Unfortunately most F1 tracks also do MotoGP and they need solid sticky run offs to prevent injury from bikes digging in and flipping. Low adhesion runoffs would work but getting a balance between slippy in the dry and non-lethal in the wet would be nigh on impossible.
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