Official 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

[thegreenhell]

A new DRS zone has been added between turns 4 and 5

[RZ1]

Looking forward to this one, hoping vettel, Russel and tsundo get a good result here

[Nampahc Niloc]

Sandpit Steve said:

SpudLink said:

I haven’t heard anything about drivetrain damage for either Bottas or Russell. If Bottas has to replace a gearbox and therefore take a grid penalty, it could leave Hamilton against both Red Bulls for the second race in a row.
I was going to say a grid penalty won’t make much difference to George, but that’s not really true now.

Mercedes said they were looking carefully at parts back at the factory, the assumption there being that they’re worried about the PU components, and the chassis in the context of a spending limit they know they’re hard up against. Laying up another chassis might mean they need to furlough aerodynamicists working on the ‘22 car.

Does it really cost that much to make another chassis? It’s the moulds that cost all the money, which they will already have. A bit more time spent laying out carbon fibre and baking it in the oven shouldn’t be massive. Unless they subcontract it out, then presumably the manpower is being paid whether they’re building a chassis or not, so effectively it’s just the cost of the materials, which is pretty negligible.

[moffspeed]

It’s been a notably long and cold winter on the Algarve and Spring has been unsettled so far. However this coming weekend looks dry and sunny but, by early afternoon on Sunday, the wind will be gusting at 20mph or so off the Monchique mountains to the North. Could make things interesting.

[M5-911]

1) Verstapen
2) Perez
3) Norris

[Piginapoke]

1) Verstappen
2) Perez
3) Hamilton

[suffolk009]

1) Perez
2) Norris
3) Hamilton

[HustleRussell]

Nampahc Niloc said:

Sandpit Steve said:

SpudLink said:

I haven’t heard anything about drivetrain damage for either Bottas or Russell. If Bottas has to replace a gearbox and therefore take a grid penalty, it could leave Hamilton against both Red Bulls for the second race in a row.
I was going to say a grid penalty won’t make much difference to George, but that’s not really true now.

Mercedes said they were looking carefully at parts back at the factory, the assumption there being that they’re worried about the PU components, and the chassis in the context of a spending limit they know they’re hard up against. Laying up another chassis might mean they need to furlough aerodynamicists working on the ‘22 car.

Does it really cost that much to make another chassis? It’s the moulds that cost all the money, which they will already have. A bit more time spent laying out carbon fibre and baking it in the oven shouldn’t be massive. Unless they subcontract it out, then presumably the manpower is being paid whether they’re building a chassis or not, so effectively it’s just the cost of the materials, which is pretty negligible.

I suspect you’re underestimating it. A lot of people from multiple disciplines unexpectedly side-tracked from their scheduled work. A lot of space and resource tied up.

A lot goes into a safety cell- aerodynamic ducting, wiring looms, hydraulic systems, fuel tank, fuelling and delivery system, heat reflective and insulative treatments, hard points and hardware for the mounting of everything that the monocoque carries, driver protection systems etc etc, a lot of mocking up / quality assurance I’d think...

[Nampahc Niloc]

HustleRussell said:

I suspect you’re underestimating it. A lot of people from multiple disciplines unexpectedly side-tracked from their scheduled work. A lot of space and resource tied up.

A lot goes into a safety cell- aerodynamic ducting, wiring looms, hydraulic systems, fuel tank, fuelling and delivery system, heat reflective and insulative treatments, hard points and hardware for the mounting of everything that the monocoque carries, driver protection systems etc etc, a lot of mocking up / quality assurance I’d think...

That’s fair enough. I was probably doing them a bit of a disservice. It’s more than just a tub.

[cowboyengineer]

Looking forward to this one

[BrettMRC]

I wonder if the cost cap will get reviewed if there is another Spa 98 style pile up and half the grid can't afford to continue the season...

Hoping for a good race with both redbulls and mercs qualifying in the right places so they can have a proper fight!

[SturdyHSV]

BrettMRC said:

I wonder if the cost cap will get reviewed if there is another Spa 98 style pile up and half the grid can't afford to continue the season...

Hoping for a good race with both redbulls and mercs qualifying in the right places so they can have a proper fight!

It would only be development for the big teams that would suffer. Only Merc, Ferrari and Red Bull actually had budgets over the level of the cost cap, the rest of the teams aren't hugely impacted by it.

Even of the big 3, obviously Ferrari don't have separate accounts for the F1 team, it's just 'Ferrari' so they have to just turn in whatever numbers they 'reckon' they spent, so it doesn't really apply to them either

[MustangGT]

SturdyHSV said:

Even of the big 3, obviously Ferrari don't have separate accounts for the F1 team, it's just 'Ferrari' so they have to just turn in whatever numbers they 'reckon' they spent, so it doesn't really apply to them either

I think you will find it policed a bit more than that. The racing team is a separate division, so, divisional accounts will be held. Of course, certain transactions may get 'misplaced'.

[TheDeuce]

MustangGT said:

SturdyHSV said:

Even of the big 3, obviously Ferrari don't have separate accounts for the F1 team, it's just 'Ferrari' so they have to just turn in whatever numbers they 'reckon' they spent, so it doesn't really apply to them either

I think you will find it policed a bit more than that. The racing team is a separate division, so, divisional accounts will be held. Of course, certain transactions may get 'misplaced'.

Yes. Divisional accounts will meticulously legitimise every last euro of illegitimately spent funds

Just like they recorded the exact right amount of fuel in leclerc's car last season, minus the extra bit..

[SturdyHSV]

TheDeuce said:

MustangGT said:

SturdyHSV said:

Even of the big 3, obviously Ferrari don't have separate accounts for the F1 team, it's just 'Ferrari' so they have to just turn in whatever numbers they 'reckon' they spent, so it doesn't really apply to them either

I think you will find it policed a bit more than that. The racing team is a separate division, so, divisional accounts will be held. Of course, certain transactions may get 'misplaced'.

Yes. Divisional accounts will meticulously legitimise every last euro of illegitimately spent funds

Just like they recorded the exact right amount of fuel in leclerc's car last season, minus the extra bit..

There's no way Mario the designer was working on the front wing last week, he was doing the spoiler for the new Ferrari that we can't divulge any information about to you because it's our intellectual property and nothing to do with F1. Oh and the composites department was just doing roadcar stuff last month too, definitely don't need to include that in the accounts... Are we at 145,000,000 yet?

[ch37]

SturdyHSV said:

There's no way Mario the designer was working on the front wing last week, he was doing the spoiler for the new Ferrari that we can't divulge any information about to you because it's our intellectual property and nothing to do with F1. Oh and the composites department was just doing roadcar stuff last month too, definitely don't need to include that in the accounts... Are we at 145,000,000 yet?

Would the restrictions on wind tunnel / CFD use limit the usefulness of doing stuff 'off the books'? Unless of course they can game that by recording it as road-car time too.

[TheDeuce]

ch37 said:

SturdyHSV said:

There's no way Mario the designer was working on the front wing last week, he was doing the spoiler for the new Ferrari that we can't divulge any information about to you because it's our intellectual property and nothing to do with F1. Oh and the composites department was just doing roadcar stuff last month too, definitely don't need to include that in the accounts... Are we at 145,000,000 yet?

Would the restrictions on wind tunnel / CFD use limit the usefulness of doing stuff 'off the books'? Unless of course they can game that by recording it as road-car time too.

That would probably be about the easiest aspect to police - although not impossible to cheat I'm sure. I can think of quite a few other ways they could 'benefit' from having the divisions separate yet physically together, I really don't think it can be thoroughly policed - but it's OK, it's just yet another unique advantage Ferrari will have, yet still fail to win titles..

[JonChalk]

TheDeuce said:

...unique advantage Ferrari will have..

How they keep failing to win or even compete at the front, given all their declared and undeclared assistance from the FIA is beyond me, but I'm also glad that it doesn't pay them any dividends.

[kiseca]

Todt, Brawn and Domenicali would know as well as anyone how Ferrari is financially structured and what opportunities they will have to cheat. Hopefully they've built that knowledge into their audits and checks and rules. Of course that doesn't mean they can think of everything, nor that they won't spend half the season with one blind eye (I find it hard to imagine any of them doing that, though)

[SturdyHSV]

kiseca said:

I find it hard to imagine any of them doing that, though

I guess it depends whether any of them ever want to drive another Ferrari ever again

But no, I'm sure it's all above board... You do make a fair point I hadn't considered that given so much of the governing body is ex-Ferrari, they'd at least have a better idea than most about how it operates...