Sebastian Vettel
Discussion
2 things to think about, what's the penalty for the Baku incident in isolation of anything else, then what's the penalty Baku when your already on thin ice for the Mexico incident where that was a final warning and any more transgressions would be dealt with severely
On it's own surely it's a black flag, DQ and thus no points all day long
Taking the previous warning into account it could be the above plus a 1 race ban
On it's own surely it's a black flag, DQ and thus no points all day long
Taking the previous warning into account it could be the above plus a 1 race ban
Doink said:
2 things to think about, what's the penalty for the Baku incident in isolation of anything else, then what's the penalty Baku when your already on thin ice for the Mexico incident where that was a final warning and any more transgressions would be dealt with severely
On it's own surely it's a black flag, DQ and thus no points all day long
Taking the previous warning into account it could be the above plus a 1 race ban
Ouch! There'd be a large fallout if they dealt that level of punishment. On it's own surely it's a black flag, DQ and thus no points all day long
Taking the previous warning into account it could be the above plus a 1 race ban
But the stewards were close to black flagging him as it was and they wouldnt of been taking his previous Mexico offence into account, the FIA think that was lenient so surely they'll impose the penalty the stewards should of done which should of been a black flag, but what about the additional penalty for ignoring the Mexico warning?
LaurasOtherHalf said:
If you were SM, or anyone running Ferrari for that matter, would you rather anyone else in SV's seat?
If so, who?
Depends what you mean. If it's to replace him for one race, or to replace him totally;If so, who?
For the lead driver at Ferrari ongoing? Seb's their man. He works hard, can drive, can team-build. He's a bit Schumacher-y (and not just because he's German). Hammo's quicker but hates testing and development and isn't a proven team-builder. Alonso has it all but also has history with Ferrari that means I can't see him going back. The RBR drivers are going to be very expensive unless they are out of contract. If they are, I could see Riccardo heading to Ferrari.
For a one-off race to cover a ban this year, it depends on who is willing to part with whom and for how much money.
Money no object I think just about everyone would stick Alonso, Hamilton, Ricciardo or Verstappen in their cars, but contractually I don't see any of those happening without a massive pile of money flying out of Ferrari and other (probably political) concessions being agreed, so I doubt any of them are likely.
I don't think they ask for Hulk purely because he's currently a Renault guy and the manufacturers tend not to mess about with each others drivers for on-offs. They'd not ask for Palmer because he's being shown up in F1: simply not good enough.
Second-order drivers like Sainz and Perez are probably more likely for a one-off, again only *if* they can be prized out of their cars. RBR don't tend to do that (they don't need the money). Ocon's great but too inexperienced/new in F1 to be a realistic option. Force India may well need money.
I'd be interested to know what would happen if they phoned up Williams asking for Massa back for a race. It's not like he's an unknown quantity to anyone. Safe pair of hands, which Ferrari might want for the constructors points.
In political terms, Haas are a Ferrari B squad, so Magnussen or Grosjean are both real possibilities. Grosjean in particular would probably jump at this (iirc it's a stated aim of his to end up in a Ferrari).
So: I think you'd have Grosjean in the Ferrari, and they'd back fill him with Antonio Giovinazzi in the Haas, who has already been placed in a car as a replacement driver this year (subbing for Wehrlein). I don't think Giovinazzi gets plugged straight into the Ferrari as he's too new.
Button is under contract to McLaren, but is a world champion (so ticks that box) and his contract may well be cheap enough to buy out and permit this to happen. It'd be a totally new car to him though, and there's little time to learn, so it wouldn't be a "call you up on the Thursday before the race" sort of thing. He does at least have some experience of the sim and real life 2017 F1 cars though. He may be the least politically problematic option.
I wonder what odds you'd get on a Button win this year, at this point?
SeeFive said:
As an alternative view, I met Sir Stirling at goodwood on a private track day. The tiny liver spotted man was genial, polite, humble but skilled. Over lunch, I mentioned that my dad was a big admirer of him and asked if he would mind for a giggle if I called him and said "I have someone here who would like to speak to you". Did he engage on that? Oh yes.
Lovely man and even at his age, could still pilot me round fairly quickly in the SWB that he won the tourist trophy in many years ago at that same circuit.
We also had a little play, him in his Mercedes and me in my grif coming back from Silverstone one day years ago. He must have been in his late 70s and was still quick, and gentlemanly enough after flashing someone to let them know he was coming past to give them a thank,you wave afterwards.
I am sure your experience is as you say, but all I can say is that you must have caught him on a very bad day.
JYS. Totally different experience. Me me me me me me me me me me....
Stirling was fab at tearing up raffle tickets for us a couple of years ago. Doesn't sound much like the guy that the knob on here was glad had been severely injured in his own house. I've found JYS largely a knob thoughLovely man and even at his age, could still pilot me round fairly quickly in the SWB that he won the tourist trophy in many years ago at that same circuit.
We also had a little play, him in his Mercedes and me in my grif coming back from Silverstone one day years ago. He must have been in his late 70s and was still quick, and gentlemanly enough after flashing someone to let them know he was coming past to give them a thank,you wave afterwards.
I am sure your experience is as you say, but all I can say is that you must have caught him on a very bad day.
JYS. Totally different experience. Me me me me me me me me me me....
I'm not talking about for one race, that's not going to go to another driver on the grid. I mean if you wanted to replace SV because you don't think he's good enough, for next year for instance.
Ferrari will know the score. Others in the paddock will have a very good idea. Vettel is good, but his championship tally vastly flatter him and it could be said there are better drivers out there without secure contracts for 2018.
But who would you rather see in the car? I can think of two proven champions, a Spaniard and a German/Finn/Whatever.
Ferrari will know the score. Others in the paddock will have a very good idea. Vettel is good, but his championship tally vastly flatter him and it could be said there are better drivers out there without secure contracts for 2018.
But who would you rather see in the car? I can think of two proven champions, a Spaniard and a German/Finn/Whatever.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I'm not talking about for one race, that's not going to go to another driver on the grid. I mean if you wanted to replace SV because you don't think he's good enough, for next year for instance.
Ferrari will know the score. Others in the paddock will have a very good idea. Vettel is good, but his championship tally vastly flatter him and it could be said there are better drivers out there without secure contracts for 2018.
But who would you rather see in the car? I can think of two proven champions, a Spaniard and a German/Finn/Whatever.
Personally I'd like Ricciardo as the experienced hand and Ocon as the newbie. A very unlikely combo though.Ferrari will know the score. Others in the paddock will have a very good idea. Vettel is good, but his championship tally vastly flatter him and it could be said there are better drivers out there without secure contracts for 2018.
But who would you rather see in the car? I can think of two proven champions, a Spaniard and a German/Finn/Whatever.
rubystone said:
Stirling was fab at tearing up raffle tickets for us a couple of years ago. Doesn't sound much like the guy that the knob on here was glad had been severely injured in his own house. I've found JYS largely a knob though
Indeed, my first memory of Sir Stirling was at a track day at Goodwood in the late '70s. I can still remember my ride round Goodwood in a 1960s Ferrari with Stirling at the wheel. My best memory is when it started raining Stirling said "The wipers don't work, but, don't worry, I know my way around here without them".Met him many times in the '80s as well. Always a top gentleman.
Another thought that occurred to me. In 1997 Schumacher, in desperation tried to bang wheels with Villenuve. This was competitive spirit to the nth degree. He wasn't angry or upset, just had to win so drove in to a gap that wasn't there. He lost every WDC point he'd earned for the season.
Vettel lost his rag because he thought he'd been wronged. His actions were retaliation. Does that make it worse ?
His only saving grace will be to say he didn't mean to hit Hamilton and that he lost control of the car whilst waving his hands about. Maybe that's true, its hardly a strong defence.
The last driver to retaliate was a lad in an f4 car. He overtook 10 cars under a safety car to punt another driver whom he'd had contact with earlier. Banned for 2 years. Worse than Vettel's indiscretion, similar motive.
Vettel lost his rag because he thought he'd been wronged. His actions were retaliation. Does that make it worse ?
His only saving grace will be to say he didn't mean to hit Hamilton and that he lost control of the car whilst waving his hands about. Maybe that's true, its hardly a strong defence.
The last driver to retaliate was a lad in an f4 car. He overtook 10 cars under a safety car to punt another driver whom he'd had contact with earlier. Banned for 2 years. Worse than Vettel's indiscretion, similar motive.
Crafty_ said:
Vettel lost his rag because he thought he'd been wronged. His actions were retaliation. Does that make it worse ?
His only saving grace will be to say he didn't mean to hit Hamilton and that he lost control of the car whilst waving his hands about. Maybe that's true, its hardly a strong defence.
On your first point yes I'd agree it was retaliation and 100% makes it different to the Schumacher crash, to me Schumacher point blank refused to be overtaken and as villeneuve put it down the inside he just turned in like he wasn't thereHis only saving grace will be to say he didn't mean to hit Hamilton and that he lost control of the car whilst waving his hands about. Maybe that's true, its hardly a strong defence.
Second point, I hope the FIA see through that lame defence if it's even used at all, I would counter that and say if he can't maintain control of his car at 10mph at a time behind the SC when he was meant to be in total control, you could also argue that Lewis drove one handed at 220mph while holding his headrest and he didn't bump into anyone so who's more at fault
Doink said:
Italy's La Gazzetta dello Sport claims that if Vettel is given a race ban, Ferrari is threatening to boycott the race altogether.
Job done then!
Interesting - probably an empty threat though as I'd be surprised if there wasn't something against this in the Concorde agreement. If there's any truth to it though it just shows that Ferrari are as petulant as Vettel and in which case they deserve a bit of a reality smackdown.Job done then!
Boycott if they get banned, I wonder what further punishment the FIA could/would dish out if they chose to boycott, the FIA needs to be seen as the authority here and it's them who decide whether a team participates or not not the other way around so I wonder if that would constitute bringing the sport into disrepute....................again! Would another ban be coming their way?
Interesting developments if true (and I suspect it's a big IF).
By saying anything publicly on the matter, especially a threat, would seem to be delivering an ultimatum.
One that the FIA would have to stand up to or be forever seen as Ferraris 'b
h' who fold at the drop of a hat.
I don't think Ferrari are that silly.
By saying anything publicly on the matter, especially a threat, would seem to be delivering an ultimatum.
One that the FIA would have to stand up to or be forever seen as Ferraris 'b
h' who fold at the drop of a hat.I don't think Ferrari are that silly.
According to the mirror Vettel has been excluded from the Baku race
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/sebastian-...
I know I know it's the mirror, just thought I'd put it out there
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/sebastian-...
I know I know it's the mirror, just thought I'd put it out there
Doink said:
According to the mirror Vettel has been excluded from the Baku race
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/sebastian-...
I know I know it's the mirror, just thought I'd put it out there
I can't find any other reference to this online.http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/sebastian-...
I know I know it's the mirror, just thought I'd put it out there
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