Lewis vs Seb

[Paul Dishman]

StevieBee said:

Something that occurred to me is that comparing Hamilton to Vettel and in fact the likes of Alonso and Schumacher is that I can't recall Hamilton ever resorting to underhand or unsporting tactics whenever something didn't go his way. All we get from him is a pouty bottom lip.

I may be wrong but can't remember him deliberately driving into the side of someone, holding a teammate up in a pitstop, parking the car in qualifying to stop others posting a faster time, running a competitor into the pit wall (near as damn it).....

I agree, he fights clean. I thought it was most telling at Baku, when Vettel was saying that Lewis had brake-tested him, Nico Rosberg's reaction was to say that Lewis wouldn't do that.

[anonymous-user]

Just hope the Red Bull will be closer to Mercedes and Ferrari in 2018 but I can only see the gap becoming wider.

Renault are not supplying Red Bull after 2018 and instead will be moving forward with McLaren.

Due to this I would not be surprised to see Red Bull falling behind McLaren during 2018 "if McLaren's chassis is as great as they state" as I am sure there is no love lost between Renault and Red Bull's public spat.

This could open the door to either Verstappen, Ricciardo or both moving to Mercedes or Ferrari for 2019.

Yes Vettel and Lewis are already at Mercedes and Ferrari but what team would not want Verstappen or Ricciardo if they became available.

[anonymous-user]

One huge point about 2017 is the fact that Lewis has not retired from one race.

The only other driver to not have a retirement is Ocon.

Impressive by both drivers and teams.

[Sa Calobra]

Derek Smith said:

VladD said:

Will Verstappen ever be better and more successful than Hamilton, Clark, Senna, etc.? Will the kid become the GOAT?

The exciting thing is that we don't know. There have been any number of promising youngsters who, despite early and obvious promise, failed to deliver. They have a choice of ways to make a mess of things and just the one or two to stardom.

I said that HH Frentzen was the upcoming start when he first came into F1 but didn't quite match his contemporaries.

I hope Max comes good and not another Webber, Coulthard etc (I.E good but not great).

[LDN]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Just hope the Red Bull will be closer to Mercedes and Ferrari in 2018 but I can only see the gap becoming wider.

Renault are not supplying Red Bull after 2018 and instead will be moving forward with McLaren.

Due to this I would not be surprised to see Red Bull falling behind McLaren during 2018 "if McLaren's chassis is as great as they state" as I am sure there is no love lost between Renault and Red Bull's public spat.

This could open the door to either Verstappen, Ricciardo or both moving to Mercedes or Ferrari for 2019.

Yes Vettel and Lewis are already at Mercedes and Ferrari but what team would not want Verstappen or Ricciardo if they became available.

I'd love to see either of the Red Bull drivers partnered with Lewis; I think the tension; perhaps with Max especially (and his violent dad); would make for some real fireworks.

If Hamilton stays true to form; he'll not block either of them joining; perhaps to his own detriment.

[E34-3.2]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

One huge point about 2017 is the fact that Lewis has not retired from one race.

The only other driver to not have a retirement is Ocon.

Impressive by both drivers and teams.

That is impressive from Ocon as the guy is generally starting in the carbon crash zone!

[Mr Tidy]

E34-3.2 said:

That is impressive from Ocon as the guy is generally starting in the carbon crash zone!

Brilliant!

Those Force Indias must be built strong!

[tankplanker]

LDN said:

I'd love to see either of the Red Bull drivers partnered with Lewis; I think the tension; perhaps with Max especially (and his violent dad); would make for some real fireworks.

If Hamilton stays true to form; he'll not block either of them joining; perhaps to his own detriment.

In that scenario I'd like other Red Bull driver in the Ferrari alongside Vettel, would make for a fun season.

[liner33]

I'd like to see Ocon partner Lewis, very impressed with this guy and think he will replace Valteri at some point

[KevinCamaroSS]

Sa Calobra said:

I hope Max comes good and not another Webber, Coulthard etc (I.E good but not great).

It is my personal opinion that Webber is actually better than Vettel but was hampered by Marko wanting Vettel to win because he was a Red Bull Junior, Webber was not part of the RB program.

[tankplanker]

KevinCamaroSS said:

It is my personal opinion that Webber is actually better than Vettel but was hampered by Marko wanting Vettel to win because he was a Red Bull Junior, Webber was not part of the RB program.

Vettel would consistently out qualify Webber, usually by a small margin, and this more often than not meant Webber finishing behind Vettel as it is very hard to overtake your team mate in the modern era (although they both had a good go at it over the years). Webber being treated as a number 2 driver didn't help qualifying, and that Webber weighed more than Vettel contributed to that difference, but Vettel has to be considered the faster qualifier of the two due to ability as much as anything. Vettel out qualified Webber 77 to 22.

[Evilex]

Evilex said:

... I bet Niki went ballistic at Lewis and Nico after Barcelona last year...

Just for once, I was on the money.
In a quote from Niki on planet F1, he said that he and Toto took the pair of them into a room and told them they'd be released from their contracts if there were any more shenanigans on track like those in Barcelona.

[DeejRC]

Its a fair call ex!

The unique characteristic/advantage of Niki is that you absolutely 100% know he is the biggest pair of balls in the room. He is arguably the most genuine "brand" in F1/Motorsport. Mercedes know that and so do the drivers. If he told Merc that it was release those 2 or I walk - if a situation happened - Merc know that it would look massively humiliating Corporate wise as everyone knows Niki Lauda just told you to stick it for being underhand/dodgy. Equally the drivers know that an ultimatum from Niki was The Truth. It was a weird thing with Rosberg and Hamilton, I think they both worked on respect. I suspect Rosberg thought that Hamilton didn't respect him, not really, not as a "proper" racer. The accidents were Rosberg showing him he was "hard" . In the end I think Britney got his respect from Hamilton, maybe grudgingly, maybe with Lewis thinking about mechanical luck but in the end Ham is a racer, out and out and Britney beat him and that has to be respected. And so back to Lauda. He commands the most precious resource of all...outright respect.

As an aside I think Toto might be the craftiest bugger of the lot.

[LDN]

DeejRC said:

Its a fair call ex!

The unique characteristic/advantage of Niki is that you absolutely 100% know he is the biggest pair of balls in the room. He is arguably the most genuine "brand" in F1/Motorsport. Mercedes know that and so do the drivers. If he told Merc that it was release those 2 or I walk - if a situation happened - Merc know that it would look massively humiliating Corporate wise as everyone knows Niki Lauda just told you to stick it for being underhand/dodgy. Equally the drivers know that an ultimatum from Niki was The Truth. It was a weird thing with Rosberg and Hamilton, I think they both worked on respect. I suspect Rosberg thought that Hamilton didn't respect him, not really, not as a "proper" racer. The accidents were Rosberg showing him he was "hard" . In the end I think Britney got his respect from Hamilton, maybe grudgingly, maybe with Lewis thinking about mechanical luck but in the end Ham is a racer, out and out and Britney beat him and that has to be respected. And so back to Lauda. He commands the most precious resource of all...outright respect.

As an aside I think Toto might be the craftiest bugger of the lot.

Good post. All spot on IMO

[anonymous-user]

The more I read about Vettel the more I am going off him.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132418/vettel-ra...

[entropy]

ash73 said:

tankplanker said:

KevinCamaroSS said:

It is my personal opinion that Webber is actually better than Vettel but was hampered by Marko wanting Vettel to win because he was a Red Bull Junior, Webber was not part of the RB program.

Vettel would consistently out qualify Webber, usually by a small margin, and this more often than not meant Webber finishing behind Vettel as it is very hard to overtake your team mate in the modern era (although they both had a good go at it over the years). Webber being treated as a number 2 driver didn't help qualifying, and that Webber weighed more than Vettel contributed to that difference, but Vettel has to be considered the faster qualifier of the two due to ability as much as anything. Vettel out qualified Webber 77 to 22.

Mark's "V" technique was better than Seb through traditional fast corners, but most modern circuits don't have any fast corners. Seb does have a knack of pulling it out of the bag in quali though, I expected Kimi to be faster in Suzuka for the same reason but it wasn't the case.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/8999496/the...

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/9009723/why...

Edited by entropy on Sunday 15th October 16:29

[KevinCamaroSS]

entropy said:

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/8999496/the...

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/9009723/why...

Edited by entropy on Sunday 15th October 16:29

In other words Webber could all but match Vettel, despite Vettel having the car developed to suit him and the team only really supporting Vettel. All because Vettel was an RB academy driver and Webber was not.

[kambites]

What it seems to be saying is that Vettel was the less instinctive but more analytical driver so in a period where the cars behaved in a very unnatural way he was better equipped to deal with it. Which presumably means that in today's cars with much more conventional down-force, Webber would quite possibly be the faster driver?

[HTP99]

kambites said:

What it seems to be saying is that Vettel was the less instinctive but more analytical driver so in a period where the cars behaved in a very unnatural way he was better equipped to deal with it. Which presumably means that in today's cars with much more conventional down-force, Webber would quite possibly be the faster driver?

Webber was quicker when the blow diffuser was turned down.

[Dr Z]

entropy said:

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/8999496/the...

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/9009723/why...

Thanks for posting that, hadn't come across it before. Mark is bang on, and validates a lot of what I have observed over the years, but a few things about Vettel's driving continue to remain a mystery to me.