Are Red bull cheating?
Discussion
llewop said:
True to a point, all will push boundaries and then whinge about others that did a better job of it than they did.
But 9 out 10 teams managed to get it right and submit accounts that complied.
One team didn't: that team has since 'won' three championships.
yes, but re-assuring to know that Mercedes are only the cost of a burger van away from overtaking Red Bull But 9 out 10 teams managed to get it right and submit accounts that complied.
One team didn't: that team has since 'won' three championships.
MarkwG said:
Siao said:
llewop said:
WestyCarl said:
llewop said:
Much as I dislike most of what RB does it can't be denied that they are generally extremely competent and precise; so this level of incompetence can't be accidental in that environment: there almost certainly was wilful gaming of the cost cap code.
Historically teams have "wilful gamed" all F1 regs, fuel sensors, barge board tollerances, plank wear, etc to gain an advantage. It's just that the cost cap is the latest regulation. But 9 out 10 teams managed to get it right and submit accounts that complied.
One team didn't: that team has since 'won' three championships.
Niponeoff said:
MustangGT said:
Not a joke at all. Any overspend would be towards improving the car performance. Items included in the budget cap were defined. You spend more on 'catering' then it leaves less for R&D. Therefore every single penny overspent is actually spent on car performance improvement.
No it isn't.Two teams can spend identically on everything, except catering. Which was where the overspend was recorded.
An overspend on catering doesn't mean they spent more on something else.
My explanation stands as correct. If you had a budget for catering of, say, $5million and you subsequently spent $6million, to comply with the cap you would need to cut your R&D spend by $1million. Any finance director or finance manager worth his salt should be able to budget for catering correctly, and to keep the spend within the budget.
When I ran finance for an engineering company working for HMG we had to budget, for example, staff costs for the year for 7 different grades, including joiners, leavers, promotions, overtime etc. and get that within 5%. If we failed, then we got as massive fine. The two years I ran that process we were within 1.5% on staff costs. Catering is a lot easier than staff costs.
MustangGT said:
When I ran finance for an engineering company working for HMG we had to budget, for example, staff costs for the year for 7 different grades, including joiners, leavers, promotions, overtime etc. and get that within 5%. If we failed, then we got as massive fine. The two years I ran that process we were within 1.5% on staff costs. Catering is a lot easier than staff costs.
Impressive.Do you fancy a job at RB ?
Niponeoff said:
I guess we'll find out in Japan if Singapore was an anomaly or a result of the TD changes.
Exactly.My money, for what it's worth, is on Suzuka being a return to expected form for Red Bull, albeit with the reality that the chasing pack are afr more evenly matched to one another, and closing in on Red Bull pace too.
mat205125 said:
Niponeoff said:
I guess we'll find out in Japan if Singapore was an anomaly or a result of the TD changes.
Exactly.My money, for what it's worth, is on Suzuka being a return to expected form for Red Bull, albeit with the reality that the chasing pack are afr more evenly matched to one another, and closing in on Red Bull pace too.
NRS said:
mat205125 said:
Niponeoff said:
I guess we'll find out in Japan if Singapore was an anomaly or a result of the TD changes.
Exactly.My money, for what it's worth, is on Suzuka being a return to expected form for Red Bull, albeit with the reality that the chasing pack are afr more evenly matched to one another, and closing in on Red Bull pace too.
Max and Red Bull haven't been putting in the Mercedes style FP1, FP2, FP3, Q1, Q2, Q3 and race win grand slams of late, have they?
But they haven't needed to. I suspect in a lot of the races if they had wanted to Max could have won by over 30seconds easily and maybe more if really pushing all race.
They would also be painfully aware that completely dominating more than they have would have led to more scrutiny and more calls for them to be pegged back, so by winning by as small as is comfortable margin they give the illusion others are catching and get left alone - its all a big game.
They would also be painfully aware that completely dominating more than they have would have led to more scrutiny and more calls for them to be pegged back, so by winning by as small as is comfortable margin they give the illusion others are catching and get left alone - its all a big game.
mat205125 said:
NRS said:
mat205125 said:
Niponeoff said:
I guess we'll find out in Japan if Singapore was an anomaly or a result of the TD changes.
Exactly.My money, for what it's worth, is on Suzuka being a return to expected form for Red Bull, albeit with the reality that the chasing pack are afr more evenly matched to one another, and closing in on Red Bull pace too.
Max and Red Bull haven't been putting in the Mercedes style FP1, FP2, FP3, Q1, Q2, Q3 and race win grand slams of late, have they?
https://gpracingstats.com/constructors/mercedes/
Bo_apex said:
Red Bull are clearly slacking, they've got a long way to go
https://gpracingstats.com/constructors/mercedes/
Are they/have they?https://gpracingstats.com/constructors/mercedes/
They don't look too far behind to me and, at this rate, will overtake race wins, poles and podiums at least by the end of 2025 whilst drawing level on titles.
Muzzer79 said:
Bo_apex said:
Red Bull are clearly slacking, they've got a long way to go
https://gpracingstats.com/constructors/mercedes/
Are they/have they?https://gpracingstats.com/constructors/mercedes/
They don't look too far behind to me and, at this rate, will overtake race wins, poles and podiums at least by the end of 2025 whilst drawing level on titles.
Mercedes:
Race 1-2 59 47.2%
1-2 start 82 59.9%
Bo_apex said:
Errr...thought we were talking hybrid era ?
Mercedes:
Race 1-2 59 47.2%
1-2 start 82 59.9%
The new Aero rules are at least as big a change as the hybrid engine era change, it's a very new formula and Red Bull are dominating.Mercedes:
Race 1-2 59 47.2%
1-2 start 82 59.9%
They had more or less caught up at the end of the last set of flat floor aero regulations. With the change in regs for the final year of that era, they were ahead, it took a lot of effort from Mercedes and Lewis for it to go down to the last race of the season.
500TORQUES said:
Bo_apex said:
Errr...thought we were talking hybrid era ?
Mercedes:
Race 1-2 59 47.2%
1-2 start 82 59.9%
The new Aero rules are at least as big a change as the hybrid engine era change, it's a very new formula and Red Bull are dominating.Mercedes:
Race 1-2 59 47.2%
1-2 start 82 59.9%
They had more or less caught up at the end of the last set of flat floor aero regulations. With the change in regs for the final year of that era, they were ahead, it took a lot of effort from Mercedes and Lewis for it to go down to the last race of the season.
Muzzer79 said:
Bo_apex said:
Red Bull are clearly slacking, they've got a long way to go
https://gpracingstats.com/constructors/mercedes/
Are they/have they?https://gpracingstats.com/constructors/mercedes/
They don't look too far behind to me and, at this rate, will overtake race wins, poles and podiums at least by the end of 2025 whilst drawing level on titles.
Lewis won six at Mercedes and Rosberg got one?
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