Are Red bull cheating?
Discussion
gt_12345 said:
Muzzer79 said:
Bo_apex said:
Red Bull are clearly slacking, they've got a long way to go
https://gpracingstats.com/constructors/mercedes/
Are they/have they?https://gpracingstats.com/constructors/mercedes/
They don't look too far behind to me and, at this rate, will overtake race wins, poles and podiums at least by the end of 2025 whilst drawing level on titles.
Lewis won six at Mercedes and Rosberg got one?
Fangio x2 Chassis & Engine
Häkkinen x2 Engine
Button Engine
Hamilton 6 Chassis & 7 Engine
Rosberg Chassis & Engine
Voldemort said:
gt_12345 said:
Muzzer79 said:
Bo_apex said:
Red Bull are clearly slacking, they've got a long way to go
https://gpracingstats.com/constructors/mercedes/
Are they/have they?https://gpracingstats.com/constructors/mercedes/
They don't look too far behind to me and, at this rate, will overtake race wins, poles and podiums at least by the end of 2025 whilst drawing level on titles.
Lewis won six at Mercedes and Rosberg got one?
Fangio x2 Chassis & Engine
Häkkinen x2 Engine
Button Engine
Hamilton 6 Chassis & 7 Engine
Rosberg Chassis & Engine
Does honda get included with RB?
500TORQUES said:
There is no engine championship, only a drivers championship and a constructors championship.
The constructors championship has always acknowledged chassis and engine as separate components. Some teams do their own engine and some (most?) do not. The engine manufacturer has always been able to claim the glory of a championship if they are not the same the chassis manufacturer.McLaren Honda
Brawn Mercedes
Red Bull Renault
McLaren TAG
Tyrrell Ford
Lotus Climax
etc.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_...
Voldemort said:
The constructors championship has always acknowledged chassis and engine as separate components. Some teams do their own engine and some (most?) do not. The engine manufacturer has always been able to claim the glory of a championship if they are not the same the chassis manufacturer.
McLaren Honda
Brawn Mercedes
Red Bull Renault
McLaren TAG
Tyrrell Ford
Lotus Climax
etc.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_...
There is no engine championship. McLaren Honda
Brawn Mercedes
Red Bull Renault
McLaren TAG
Tyrrell Ford
Lotus Climax
etc.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_...
Team naming often includes engine manufacturers, but they also include other sponsors such as Oracle and Malborough.
500TORQUES said:
Voldemort said:
The constructors championship has always acknowledged chassis and engine as separate components. Some teams do their own engine and some (most?) do not. The engine manufacturer has always been able to claim the glory of a championship if they are not the same the chassis manufacturer.
McLaren Honda
Brawn Mercedes
Red Bull Renault
McLaren TAG
Tyrrell Ford
Lotus Climax
etc.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_...
There is no engine championship. McLaren Honda
Brawn Mercedes
Red Bull Renault
McLaren TAG
Tyrrell Ford
Lotus Climax
etc.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_...
Team naming often includes engine manufacturers, but they also include other sponsors such as Oracle and Malborough.
500TORQUES said:
Voldemort said:
Maybe you coud try thinking of it as a dead heat in a race. Both parties get a gold medal. FFS it's not difficult to understand unless you are being obtuse for points or are genuinely a bit dim.
Voldemort said:
No. I think it shows that both the chassis manufacturer and the engine manufacturer are permitted to claim an equal part of a constructors championship. This isn't new, it isn't controversial. That you think an engine plays no part in a constructors victory shows that you simply don't understand how F1 accredits wins to both engine and chassis.
Maybe you coud try thinking of it as a dead heat in a race. Both parties get a gold medal. FFS it's not difficult to understand unless you are being obtuse for points or are genuinely a bit dim.
The name of the constructor is registered with the championship each year. That name changes often, based on the major sponsor. The entrant who is awarded the constructors championship is the entity that wins the championship. Maybe you coud try thinking of it as a dead heat in a race. Both parties get a gold medal. FFS it's not difficult to understand unless you are being obtuse for points or are genuinely a bit dim.
This is not a difficult concept for you to understand. The engine is an important part of the package, but there is no official championship status for it, you are reading marketing material.
Voldemort said:
No. I think it shows that both the chassis manufacturer and the engine manufacturer are permitted to claim an equal part of a constructors championship. This isn't new, it isn't controversial. That you think an engine plays no part in a constructors victory shows that you simply don't understand how F1 accredits wins to both engine and chassis.
Maybe you coud try thinking of it as a dead heat in a race. Both parties get a gold medal. FFS it's not difficult to understand unless you are being obtuse for points or are genuinely a bit dim.
No.Maybe you coud try thinking of it as a dead heat in a race. Both parties get a gold medal. FFS it's not difficult to understand unless you are being obtuse for points or are genuinely a bit dim.
C'mon... obviously an engine supplier will celebrate a WDC/WCC earned by their engine but they don't win the championship themselves!
Recognition is indeed given to the engine supplier because that's a valuable commercial part of involvement in the sport. The winner or the championships is however solely the driver/constructor.
Voldemort said:
They don't have 9: they have 13.
Fangio x2 Chassis & Engine
Häkkinen x2 Engine
Button Engine
Hamilton 6 Chassis & 7 Engine
Rosberg Chassis & Engine
You're getting a bit mixed up here with constructor's and driver's championships.Fangio x2 Chassis & Engine
Häkkinen x2 Engine
Button Engine
Hamilton 6 Chassis & 7 Engine
Rosberg Chassis & Engine
A driver's championship is for drivers. Nothing to do with what car they are driving - it is awarded to an individual driver, so the team is not mentioned. This is why Teams value the WCC more than the WDC in many respects.
So, in all the examples listed above, it was the individual driver receiving the plaudits. Mercedes have not won any driver's championships because they are not a driver.
In terms of constructors, the name on the constructor's trophy is the name of the team that won the championship.
In 1998, Mclaren won the constructor's championship. It was with Mercedes power, but the constructor of the car was McLaren.
Same in 2009 - Brawn won the championship.
Mercedes will get some credit for those title wins, but that's frankly why they (engine manufacturers) become works teams - to get proper credit for success in the WCC, rather than just supplying and engine, getting a little sticker on the engine cover and trading off a team's win (like in your RBR example)
The current McLaren doesn't even carry Mercedes branding on it.
There is no engine championship.
Voldemort said:
GlobalRacer said:
So where is the trophy for the "Engine Championship" then? Cant say I ever recall it being handed out......
It's right next to the chassis championship. Oh no! there isn't one of those either..."A constructor is the person (including any corporate or unincorporated body) which designs the Listed Parts set out in Appendix 6.
These "listed parts" include the survival cell, the front impact structure, the roll structures and bodywork.”
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