Vettel and traction control?
Discussion
angrymoby said:
Interesting take on if Vettel has TC, then why doesn't Maaark?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/10/09/...
Will also being interesting to see, that if the above regarding winning points margins & costs implications are correct ...then will Red Bull's performance drop off a cliff once both titles are mathematically in the bag?
Interesting. That has been my theory all along. Even though only a couple of days ago I was slated for being daft and spouting nonsense rubbish conspiracy theories.http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/10/09/...
Will also being interesting to see, that if the above regarding winning points margins & costs implications are correct ...then will Red Bull's performance drop off a cliff once both titles are mathematically in the bag?
Seb has traction control.
Mark does not have it. No-one else has it. That is the way it is. Good for RB. Good for Sebastien. Lets not try and pretend otherwise though.
Sadly, if it is all true, I kind of get the idea the FIA wouldn't care. RB could be caught with nitrous, a V10, traction control, 4WD and active aero and they'd be fine.
Not a jab at RB...the FIA don't want a Lance Armstrong moment...which ultimately puts them at risk of this happening.
Not a jab at RB...the FIA don't want a Lance Armstrong moment...which ultimately puts them at risk of this happening.
angrymoby said:
Interesting take on if Vettel has TC, then why doesn't Maaark?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/10/09/...
Will also being interesting to see, that if the above regarding winning points margins & costs implications are correct ...then will Red Bull's performance drop off a cliff once both titles are mathematically in the bag?
Really interesting read - Thanks.http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/10/09/...
Will also being interesting to see, that if the above regarding winning points margins & costs implications are correct ...then will Red Bull's performance drop off a cliff once both titles are mathematically in the bag?
Not so much in the speculation over traction control but, for me, the info about the costs incurred by being a run away winner in the constructors championship. I didn't know anything about that.
I'm not sure i but the traction control thing completely...
I think they may have a very clever way of simulating it but both cars have it and only Seb can utilise it.
From what I have heard, and cant remember exactly where, the "system" requires the driver to be hard on the throttle before the apex which then charges the floor aero and gives greater grip, hence its a virtuous circle - the earlier you can do it the more grip you have and then the earlier you can do it etc.
Apparently there are only a handful of drivers who can get their head around it and Seb being the best so while mark's car has the same spec he can't get on the throttle early enough to make it work.
On the other hand they may be favouring Seb and have illegal TC?
Maybe we will never know.
I think they may have a very clever way of simulating it but both cars have it and only Seb can utilise it.
From what I have heard, and cant remember exactly where, the "system" requires the driver to be hard on the throttle before the apex which then charges the floor aero and gives greater grip, hence its a virtuous circle - the earlier you can do it the more grip you have and then the earlier you can do it etc.
Apparently there are only a handful of drivers who can get their head around it and Seb being the best so while mark's car has the same spec he can't get on the throttle early enough to make it work.
On the other hand they may be favouring Seb and have illegal TC?
Maybe we will never know.
mycool said:
I'm not sure i but the traction control thing completely...
I think they may have a very clever way of simulating it but both cars have it and only Seb can utilise it.
From what I have heard, and cant remember exactly where, the "system" requires the driver to be hard on the throttle before the apex which then charges the floor aero and gives greater grip, hence its a virtuous circle - the earlier you can do it the more grip you have and then the earlier you can do it etc.
Apparently there are only a handful of drivers who can get their head around it and Seb being the best so while mark's car has the same spec he can't get on the throttle early enough to make it work.
On the other hand they may be favouring Seb and have illegal TC?
Maybe we will never know.
I dont think thats it. I think they may have a very clever way of simulating it but both cars have it and only Seb can utilise it.
From what I have heard, and cant remember exactly where, the "system" requires the driver to be hard on the throttle before the apex which then charges the floor aero and gives greater grip, hence its a virtuous circle - the earlier you can do it the more grip you have and then the earlier you can do it etc.
Apparently there are only a handful of drivers who can get their head around it and Seb being the best so while mark's car has the same spec he can't get on the throttle early enough to make it work.
On the other hand they may be favouring Seb and have illegal TC?
Maybe we will never know.
I believe that the RB' traction control basically uses the hardware for KERS energy gathering and ties it in with the engines CU to control torque output to the wheels, effectively reducing wheelspin and so acting as a traction control.
I am convinced that only Sebastien has it.
And it is quite right that RB do not want Webber to have it because they can win the WDC and CC without it and so avoid having to spend more money than they have to next season.
Sebastien is a worthy WDC this year.
He has a car with TC. No-one else has.
That is fine. This is F1. We just have to accept that. Other seasons through the years have been just the same.
mycool said:
I'm not sure i but the traction control thing completely...
I think they may have a very clever way of simulating it but both cars have it and only Seb can utilise it.
From what I have heard, and cant remember exactly where, the "system" requires the driver to be hard on the throttle before the apex which then charges the floor aero and gives greater grip, hence its a virtuous circle - the earlier you can do it the more grip you have and then the earlier you can do it etc.
Apparently there are only a handful of drivers who can get their head around it and Seb being the best so while mark's car has the same spec he can't get on the throttle early enough to make it work.
On the other hand they may be favouring Seb and have illegal TC?
Maybe we will never know.
I think you're talking about the exhaust blown diffusers that were in use last year.I think they may have a very clever way of simulating it but both cars have it and only Seb can utilise it.
From what I have heard, and cant remember exactly where, the "system" requires the driver to be hard on the throttle before the apex which then charges the floor aero and gives greater grip, hence its a virtuous circle - the earlier you can do it the more grip you have and then the earlier you can do it etc.
Apparently there are only a handful of drivers who can get their head around it and Seb being the best so while mark's car has the same spec he can't get on the throttle early enough to make it work.
On the other hand they may be favouring Seb and have illegal TC?
Maybe we will never know.
I think the accusation that a team who have invested in excess of $250M per season, well over $1BN since coming to F1, in order to win the WDC might compromise their ability to do so by artificially controlling the amount they win the championship by to save $6,000 per point is bordering on hysterical.
The conspiracists have got to come up with something more plausible than that.
The conspiracists have got to come up with something more plausible than that.
Agent Orange said:
I think the accusation that a team who have invested in excess of $250M per season, well over $1BN since coming to F1, in order to win the WDC might compromise their ability to do so by artificially controlling the amount they win the championship by to save $6,000 per point is bordering on hysterical.
The conspiracists have got to come up with something more plausible than that.
Indeed. Let's face it, Mark just isn't as fast as Seb. As Joe Saward put it recently, he has had 4 years crack at it...The conspiracists have got to come up with something more plausible than that.
But what's the point in adding the technology to Webber's car?! He's shown last weekend that he can still compete, he's still bringing in the points, Red Bull are still comfortably leading both championships. What is the point in dragging resources away from focusing on next years car to make the current car more competitive when it's doing fine as it is?
angrymoby said:
Interesting take on if Vettel has TC, then why doesn't Maaark?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/10/09/...
Will also being interesting to see, that if the above regarding winning points margins & costs implications are correct ...then will Red Bull's performance drop off a cliff once both titles are mathematically in the bag?
Does the video in that article really back up his theory? To my ears, the (admittedly unique) 'grinding' sound appears mid-corner, before the car starts to accelerate again. When it does accelerate, the sound is as clean as anyone else's. Maybe there's something clever going on with the mapping to improve the diffuser's performance mid-corner, but that didn't sound like traction control to me.http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/10/09/...
Will also being interesting to see, that if the above regarding winning points margins & costs implications are correct ...then will Red Bull's performance drop off a cliff once both titles are mathematically in the bag?
Ok, so let's get this straight.
RedBull are deliberately taking a chance to potentially not win the constructors championship by secretly only giving Vettel traction control (which isn't actually traction control) and not Webber (which is the reason why he is a slower driver, not because, for example he is a slower driver) so they can save the equivalent of 2 brake dics per point.
From a Team whose reported budget is upwards of £250 million pounds.
Righto.
RedBull are deliberately taking a chance to potentially not win the constructors championship by secretly only giving Vettel traction control (which isn't actually traction control) and not Webber (which is the reason why he is a slower driver, not because, for example he is a slower driver) so they can save the equivalent of 2 brake dics per point.
From a Team whose reported budget is upwards of £250 million pounds.
Righto.
vonuber said:
Ok, so let's get this straight.
RedBull are deliberately taking a chance to potentially not win the constructors championship by secretly only giving Vettel traction control (which isn't actually traction control) and not Webber (which is the reason why he is a slower driver, not because, for example he is a slower driver) so they can save the equivalent of 2 brake dics per point.
From a Team whose reported budget is upwards of £250 million pounds.
Righto.
I think we are getting a little carried away with the random conspiracy theories and folk trying to make them fit the evidence. RedBull are deliberately taking a chance to potentially not win the constructors championship by secretly only giving Vettel traction control (which isn't actually traction control) and not Webber (which is the reason why he is a slower driver, not because, for example he is a slower driver) so they can save the equivalent of 2 brake dics per point.
From a Team whose reported budget is upwards of £250 million pounds.
Righto.
To go back to the point is he using TC? Possibly or some other technical and very significant advantage.
This isn't to say he's not a good driver but clearly he has a rather large advantage in his car.
vonuber said:
Ok, so let's get this straight.
RedBull are deliberately taking a chance to potentially not win the constructors championship by secretly only giving Vettel traction control (which isn't actually traction control) and not Webber (which is the reason why he is a slower driver, not because, for example he is a slower driver) so they can save the equivalent of 2 brake dics per point.
From a Team whose reported budget is upwards of £250 million pounds.
Righto.
Indeed.RedBull are deliberately taking a chance to potentially not win the constructors championship by secretly only giving Vettel traction control (which isn't actually traction control) and not Webber (which is the reason why he is a slower driver, not because, for example he is a slower driver) so they can save the equivalent of 2 brake dics per point.
From a Team whose reported budget is upwards of £250 million pounds.
Righto.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/
Clearly an expert on F1. Or sensationalist filler for Forbes, that well known F1 authority?
Ordinary_Chap said:
This isn't to say he's not a good driver but clearly he has a rather large advantage in his car.
At this stage of the season the RedBull is certainly the best car, they have been supreme at mid season development this year (which was one of Mclaren's noted strengths). Start of the year certainly not; RedBull have just outsmarted the opposition. Again.I for one am certainly disappointed by Ferrari's lack of development.
Let's not forget they were beaten at Hungary. Have they really gained a TC system since then? Surely Hungary will slow in, fast out would have maximised RB advantage with TC?
Lots of tin foil needed for hats right now...
It's a great car, great driver, with a team working flawlessly (and supporting their no 2 driver).
Maybe we should go back and see what magic system they had at Williams to favour Mansell in 92 ahead of Patrese?
Lots of tin foil needed for hats right now...
It's a great car, great driver, with a team working flawlessly (and supporting their no 2 driver).
Maybe we should go back and see what magic system they had at Williams to favour Mansell in 92 ahead of Patrese?
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