Ask an F1 Engineer anything

[Ahonen]

TheDeuce said:

Total loss said:

jsf said:

I should check, but i thought the front is still fully manual without power assist.

You tend to use between 1:3 and 1:5 on a brake pedal, too big a ratio gives a long pedal, no driver likes that as your feedback is all about pressure, you want literally zero travel for best performance.

I don't know about the fronts, they could be still fully mechanical, I've read before about F1 brakes being electrically activated, I assumed both front & rear?
I was being very simplistic with my explanation, probably too much, yes pedal feel is everything, not all drivers preferring the same set up, when you have different drivers driving the same car, some will say alls good and another will say the brakes require too much effort or the pedal is too long!

I also thought it was FBW all round now, and if it were I'd still think you'd want a very high level of pedal resistance for the reasons stated.

Obviously if it's still mechanically linked to the front and unassisted then that resistance is there regardless of preference.

Yeah the fronts are still entirely conventional, hydraulic brakes. The magic happens in the rear circuit only.

[TheDeuce]

Ahonen said:

Yeah the fronts are still entirely conventional, hydraulic brakes. The magic happens in the rear circuit only.

Got it. I assume 'the magic' is only allowed at all in order to balance out braking force dependant on ERS harvesting at the time?

[anonymous-user]

TheDeuce said:

Got it. I assume 'the magic' is only allowed at all in order to balance out braking force dependant on ERS harvesting at the time?

Rear brakes are much smaller now due to the ERS system doing a lot of the work. If the mechanically coupled ERS system fails, it has a huge impact on brake performance which usually means retiring the car.

[markcoznottz]

jsf said:

Oilchange said:

Was that Jonny Herbert?

No, but if i told you his name you would know him.

I’m guessing it starts with a P?.

[TheDeuce]

jsf said:

TheDeuce said:

Got it. I assume 'the magic' is only allowed at all in order to balance out braking force dependant on ERS harvesting at the time?

Rear brakes are much smaller now due to the ERS system doing a lot of the work. If the mechanically coupled ERS system fails, it has a huge impact on brake performance which usually means retiring the car.

Seems an odd way of doing it. In a road car with regen the brakes remain sufficient to do the job unaided, but then the BBW system reduces friction braking by whatever resistance the regen adds to the braking - so if regen were to fail you'd still have 100% brakes available.

Why not the same in an F1 car?

[anonymous-user]

Because you don't want to carry the weight penalty of brakes capable of doing the job unaided.

[anonymous-user]

You also need the brakes in a working temperature range, size has to match load rate or they run too cold and dont work.

If the rules allowed you could have active brake cooling, but thats banned under movable aerodynamics rules.

[TheDeuce]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

Because you don't want to carry the weight penalty of brakes capable of doing the job unaided.

Aren't disc sizes defined by the regs - so it's actually the FIA that have mandated brakes which under some circumstances might be described as inadequate.

If the teams were allowed to choose their own brakes then I agree, they would opt for the least they thought they could get away with alongside the extra retardation by the ERS.

Just did a Google on the subject and apparently the discs are to become larger when the new wheels come in. 330mm up from 280mm.

[anonymous-user]

You can fit bigger disks inside a larger rim shocker.

Disk bulk will be the same, it will allow for thinner disks. Brake force is all limited by tyre grip.

[TheDeuce]

jsf said:

You can fit bigger disks inside a larger rim shocker.

Disk bulk will be the same, it will allow for thinner disks. Brake force is all limited by tyre grip.

The increase is disproportionate to the increase in rim and tyre diameter.

Although interestingly the disc and caliper will be further away from the tyre so less ability to convect heat in to the tyre than at present?

[anonymous-user]

TheDeuce said:

The increase is disproportionate to the increase in rim and tyre diameter.

Although interestingly the disc and caliper will be further away from the tyre so less ability to convect heat in to the tyre than at present?

There is a size that gives peak overall performance, you dont go bigger than you need.

The drums control the heat flow to the wheel/tyre

[Davyf]

Have you heard that "sir" Lewis wants a rule introduced that bowing or curtseying, by anyone working on the F1 car that he will be driving, will be a requirement.

[Evanivitch]

Davyf said:

Have you heard that "sir" Lewis wants a rule introduced that bowing or curtseying, by anyone working on the F1 car that he will be driving, will be a requirement.

If you don't like him just say it.

[Dashnine]

Davyf said:

Have you heard that Sir Lewis Hamilton wants a rule introduced that bowing or curtseying, by anyone working on the F1 car that he will be driving, will be a requirement.

Let me correct that for you.

Oh, and no.

[Mark-C]

Davyf said:

Have you heard that "sir" Lewis wants a rule introduced that bowing or curtseying, by anyone working on the F1 car that he will be driving, will be a requirement.

I thought the kids had gone back to school this week?

[Chebble]

Mark-C said:

Davyf said:

Have you heard that "sir" Lewis wants a rule introduced that bowing or curtseying, by anyone working on the F1 car that he will be driving, will be a requirement.

I thought the kids had gone back to school this week?

Not sure what is going on here of late.

Stupid comments in a few threads now by people who think they are far funnier than they are. Pathetic.

[Blib]

Will teams bring back T cars with the introduction of sprint races the day before the main event?

Or, can any car be rebuilt in time? Can the team change the 'tub' mid event?

Thanks.

[Dashnine]

Blib said:

Will teams bring back T cars with the introduction of sprint races the day before the main event?

Or, can any car be rebuilt in time? Can the team change the 'tub' mid event?

Thanks.

Cars are often rebuilt into a new tub overnight, or even built from a new tub up if there’s not much useable from the original car.

[Sandpit Steve]

Dashnine said:

Blib said:

Will teams bring back T cars with the introduction of sprint races the day before the main event?

Or, can any car be rebuilt in time? Can the team change the 'tub' mid event?

Thanks.

Cars are often rebuilt into a new tub overnight, or even built from a new tub up if there’s not much useable from the original car.

They’re no longer allowed to have an assembled “T Car” ready to go, but keep more than enough spares around to build one (or two!) up if required. Scrutineering is open every morning during the event for a team who want to use a new chassis. The complicating factor in recent years has been the major mechanicals (PU components and transmissions) which have a reliability standard, changing them can attract sporting penalties so they often have to disassemble the crashed car first to get them out!

[marine boy]

Sandpit Steve said:

They’re no longer allowed to have an assembled “T Car” ready to go, but keep more than enough spares around to build one (or two!) up if required. Scrutineering is open every morning during the event for a team who want to use a new chassis. The complicating factor in recent years has been the major mechanicals (PU components and transmissions) which have a reliability standard, changing them can attract sporting penalties so they often have to disassemble the crashed car first to get them out!

Shame a few idiots always have to spoil a good thread so hoping this gets the topic back on track......

We stopped the use of a T Car when we did a qualifying only car at ? in 1999. Our car wasn't the quickest but we spotted a loop hole in the rules and exploited it It's always satisfying knowing you pushed the rules so far the FIA need to change the rules to stop other teams doing what they're doing.

1/3rd of the engine cover weight was paint (without primer or under coat), you could see daylight peeking through the 0.15mm carbon skinned sandwich panel bodywork before it was painted

Magnesium wheels were machined down to 1.9mm rim thickness, they would turn into egg shaped wheel if the driver started hopping the kerbs

Only the wiring/sensors req'd to run the car were kept, all other electrical gubbins were removed, including telemetry

Legality plank/skids skimmed down to just above legal minimum as well as skimming down the brake discs and pads to just above minimum wear limits

No 1st gear and the aluminium fabricated oil tank was acid etched pocketed down to 0.6mm

Raciest modification were magnesium engine heads that warped after one qually session of 12 laps, the inconel headers were also thinned down to 0.4mm and were usually scrap to after one qually session

Small fuel tank just enough for only 12 laps

From memory we saved 5kgs which is a huge chunk off an F1 car back then, I'm sure we did more but I've forgotten it or didn't know about it

Logistically there was only enough race team resource to qualify with one qually only car and be able to convert it back to full race spec. so the drivers took it turns to use it

All the mods were good for 0.3 secs a lap of to push the driver up the grid from back of the mid-pack to front of the mid-pack

One of my favourite F1 car projects, really enjoyed trying to scratch out the weight, learnt a lot of where the limit was when designing parts

Edited by marine boy on Thursday 11th March 21:34