Williams F1

[carl_w]

TheDeuce said:

What else could they do? Not really optional when there's no profit to go into the shareholders fund = nothing for dividend..

It's 1 year of loss. Presumably there are reserves from previous years that dividends could be drawn against.

[TheDeuce]

carl_w said:

It's 1 year of loss. Presumably there are reserves from previous years that dividends could be drawn against.

I might be wrong but the recent couple of years profit probably doesn't offset the last periods loss of £13m. Not to the extent it would be seen as wise to issue dividends.

Whatever the figures, stating they won't issue dividends is both an obvious and predictable move. It doesn't in itself show faith they will remain as significant shareholders in the future.

[C Lee Farquar]

Quite, they have £35m banked from WAE so they're left with £20m after the operating loss.

Rokit still owed $1m from 2019 and haven't paid the expected £9m due this year.

[TheDeuce]

C Lee Farquar said:

Quite, they have £35m banked from WAE so they're left with £20m after the operating loss.

Rokit still owed $1m from 2019 and haven't paid the expected £9m due this year.

What do you mean by 'banked'? The group sold WAE so it's just an income to set against expenses. The bottom line is all that matters.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited

£30m distributable reserves as at 31/12/2018

Edited by 2 sMoKiN bArReLs on Tuesday 2nd June 20:28

[Deesee]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited

£30m distributable reserves as at 31/12/2018

Edited by 2 sMoKiN bArReLs on Tuesday 2nd June 20:28

Correct..

Cash in hand ??? was 8 mill

Anyway, looks like its been whitewashed, old charges repaid, new charges last month, and a debenture & charge over land and buildings from a company controlled (perhaps, ok it is)by a certain Mr Latifi...

[TheDeuce]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited

£30m distributable reserves as at 31/12/2018

Edited by 2 sMoKiN bArReLs on Tuesday 2nd June 20:28

Go on...

[TheDeuce]

Deesee said:

Correct..

Cash in hand ??? was 8 mill

Anyway, looks like its been whitewashed, old charges repaid, new charges last month, and a debenture & charge over land and buildings from a company controlled (perhaps, ok it is)by a certain Mr Latifi...

Exactly. It's perfectly obvious they were short on sponsor income and have sold as much as they can, one way or another, to fund the team for 2020. Then CV hit, further significant drop in expected sponsor revenue and that brings us to the current stuation at Williams.

The fact they sold WAE for £35m doesn't mean there is a spare £35m hanging around... It just means they're approx £35m less in the st than they would have been.

[Deesee]

TheDeuce said:

Deesee said:

Correct..

Cash in hand ??? was 8 mill

Anyway, looks like its been whitewashed, old charges repaid, new charges last month, and a debenture & charge over land and buildings from a company controlled (perhaps, ok it is)by a certain Mr Latifi...

Exactly. It's perfectly obvious they were short on sponsor income and have sold as much as they can, one way or another, to fund the team for 2020. Then CV hit, further significant drop in expected sponsor revenue and that brings us to the current stuation at Williams.

The fact they sold WAE for £35m doesn't mean there is a spare £35m hanging around... It just means they're approx £35m less in the st than they would have been.

not quite that the GP company, not the group/holding co..

Anyway, news to me that HSBC were repaid, and Latifi has lent them cash, id imagine he's done a similar deal to Lawrence Stroll and bought the advertising space on the car (as well as a drive)..

[TheDeuce]

Deesee said:

not quite that the GP company, not the group/holding co..

Anyway, news to me that HSBC were repaid, and Latifi has lent them cash, id imagine he's done a similar deal to Lawrence Stroll and bought the advertising space on the car (as well as a drive)..

They've re-financed with HSBC too. £25m to be repaid in 2 years at a collosal 5%pa and a further £20m over 5 years.

Can't know the full figures yet but with latifi as well it looks like they've re-financed to a level not dissimilar to what would normally be a years sponsor revenue for them.

[Deesee]

TheDeuce said:

Deesee said:

not quite that the GP company, not the group/holding co..

Anyway, news to me that HSBC were repaid, and Latifi has lent them cash, id imagine he's done a similar deal to Lawrence Stroll and bought the advertising space on the car (as well as a drive)..

They've re-financed with HSBC too. £25m to be repaid in 2 years at a collosal 5%pa and a further £20m over 5 years.

Can't know the full figures yet but with latifi as well it looks like they've re-financed to a level not dissimilar to what would normally be a years sponsor revenue for them.

HSBC have allowed their charges to be redeemed (it looks like), 5% interest is not big numbers in business.. can't see HSBC going unsecured to Latifis company & allowing them a debenture.. so ill assume they have been repaid in full

Yes they (williams) will owe/debt 20/30 million on a company (with significant assets/buildings) thats worth 100/130 million..+ heritage assets... to a probable buyer.. (try before you buy)..

[anonymous-user]

Deesee said:

HSBC have allowed their charges to be redeemed (it looks like), 5% interest is not big numbers in business.. can't see HSBC going unsecured to Latifis company & allowing them a debenture.. so ill assume they have been repaid in full

Yes they (williams) will owe/debt 20/30 million on a company (with significant assets/buildings) thats worth 100/130 million..+ heritage assets... to a probable buyer.. (try before you buy)..

Is it worth that much? How much did Haas spend getting his team on the grid in year 1?

[Deesee]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

Deesee said:

HSBC have allowed their charges to be redeemed (it looks like), 5% interest is not big numbers in business.. can't see HSBC going unsecured to Latifis company & allowing them a debenture.. so ill assume they have been repaid in full

Yes they (williams) will owe/debt 20/30 million on a company (with significant assets/buildings) thats worth 100/130 million..+ heritage assets... to a probable buyer.. (try before you buy)..

Is it worth that much? How much did Haas spend getting his team on the grid in year 1?

Land and buildings, fixtures and fittings?? (IP)???

Frankfurt Stock Exchange has them at 120m euro..

(Gene got a cracking deal), but has very significant costs as a customer car, but Gene can afford it..

[anonymous-user]

Deesee said:

Land and buildings, fixtures and fittings?? (IP)???

Frankfurt Stock Exchange has them at 120m euro..

(Gene got a cracking deal), but has very significant costs as a customer car, but Gene can afford it..

Was thinking barrier to entry. If you can build from scratch at a considerable discount to £100m, why but Williams?

[thegreenhell]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

s it worth that much? How much did Haas spend getting his team on the grid in year 1?

The Haas model is unrepeatable, so not really relevant. The technical partnership they had with Ferrari to use their wind tunnel and technicians before they officially entered F1 has since been outlawed, and the car is built for them by Dallara (the biggest racing car manufacturer in the world), so you'd need to find a different third party to build the chassis for you if you couldn't build your own. Williams is one of the few teams in the world that can design and build the entire car, apart from PU. The infrastructure is all there already.

Plus, Williams have an F1 entry, and the only way into F1 at the moment is to buy an existing team and their championship entry.

[C Lee Farquar]

TheDeuce said:

Deesee said:

Correct..

Cash in hand ??? was 8 mill

Anyway, looks like its been whitewashed, old charges repaid, new charges last month, and a debenture & charge over land and buildings from a company controlled (perhaps, ok it is)by a certain Mr Latifi...

Exactly. It's perfectly obvious they were short on sponsor income and have sold as much as they can, one way or another, to fund the team for 2020. Then CV hit, further significant drop in expected sponsor revenue and that brings us to the current stuation at Williams.

The fact they sold WAE for £35m doesn't mean there is a spare £35m hanging around... It just means they're approx £35m less in the st than they would have been.

The Group had £25 million in the Bank, cash in hand end 2019. That's pre refinancing. They have stated they have the money to cover this year.

As I keep telling my youngest child, just because you keep repeating something you've made up, it doesn't make it true.

Earnings were nearly £2 a share, which they have retained.

[Deesee]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

Deesee said:

Land and buildings, fixtures and fittings?? (IP)???

Frankfurt Stock Exchange has them at 120m euro..

(Gene got a cracking deal), but has very significant costs as a customer car, but Gene can afford it..

Was thinking barrier to entry. If you can build from scratch at a considerable discount to £100m, why but Williams?

100%.. Genes entry 5/6 yrs ago was 100m USD, theres a probable number between 80/100m USD additional over that 5 years, its unlikely another 'hass' deal would be allowed, but he was right time, right person, right cash..

Williams are a constructor, by the letter of the law, Hass are not, however things are changing, and you will see more 'customer' type teams in the future.

Buying Williams... state of the art facility, 2nd to none team/pit crew, if I were a oligarch with a spare yacht to sell and 20 free weekends thats what id do, (its cheaper than premier league btw)...

[anonymous-user]

Bearing in mind the £100m is just buying the existing team, not funding racing, which comes on top. Did Haas really spend $100m on infrastructure/staff before racing costs? Not having a dig btw, just trying to work out where the value is in buying Williams?

[C Lee Farquar]

The Haas arrangement would look better if Ferrari hadn't transferred their favours to Sauber. But what can he do to improve that without massive investment.

[Deesee]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

Bearing in mind the £100m is just buying the existing team, not funding racing, which comes on top. Did Haas really spend $100m on infrastructure/staff before racing costs? Not having a dig btw, just trying to work out where the value is in buying Williams?

As per the greenhell ( hope you don't mind me x quoting ), and we were on a slightly different tangent, but this is 100% relevant..

thegreenhell said:

The Haas model is unrepeatable, so not really relevant. The technical partnership they had with Ferrari to use their wind tunnel and technicians before they officially entered F1 has since been outlawed, and the car is built for them by Dallara (the biggest racing car manufacturer in the world), so you'd need to find a different third party to build the chassis for you if you couldn't build your own. Williams is one of the few teams in the world that can design and build the entire car, apart from PU. The infrastructure is all there already.

Plus, Williams have an F1 entry, and the only way into F1 at the moment is to buy an existing team and their championship entry.