Black Mercedes.
Discussion
Muzzer79 said:
Piginapoke said:
Muzzer79 said:
Piginapoke said:
Muzzer79 said:
Of course - Mercedes' sketchy history.
OK, let's write a collective PH letter to Mercedes, telling them that they shouldn't be trying to help raise awareness of racism and promote equality because 80 years ago they used slave labour.
Instead, let's tell them they should do nothing. Not try and help the cause at all, because they jolly well have no right to. They can keep their money and their influence and use it for other things which they are allowed to support.
Honestly.....
Maybe Merc should start addressing its 3% BAME workforceOK, let's write a collective PH letter to Mercedes, telling them that they shouldn't be trying to help raise awareness of racism and promote equality because 80 years ago they used slave labour.
Instead, let's tell them they should do nothing. Not try and help the cause at all, because they jolly well have no right to. They can keep their money and their influence and use it for other things which they are allowed to support.
Honestly.....
People are either trolling or there's only so much obtuseness I can handle in a day.
Piginapoke said:
OK Einstein; if addressing racial inequality is so important to Merc, why did it wait for the BLM movement/George Floyd bandwagon?
Because they movement is huge and all over the media. Now is a time where people are looking to big business to see what statement they will make, what they will do to respond... There is undeniably some pressure to respond, so they have. And naturally Lewis is involved in petitioning them to take it very seriously, as he takes it very seriously himself. We could debate whether he's taking some of it too far.... But that's ultimately his decision. He has the voice to speak up, and he has strong influence at Mercedes too.I would also be shocked if addressing racial inequality wasn't already part of Merc's normal routine in any case. They're undoubtedly a modern and forward thinking organisation. They won't have been blind to PC issues in general, but in the here and now the focus is on race and equality, and they have responded to that.
Can we try and not resort to playground insults.
You’re right in saying that Mercedes should have done something before now. The whole world should have done something before now, some have, many have not. That doesn’t meant that they shouldn’t do it now. Maybe it is just about PR. Or maybe they genuinely mean what they are saying and believe in the movement. The important thing is they are doing something about it now.
You’re right in saying that Mercedes should have done something before now. The whole world should have done something before now, some have, many have not. That doesn’t meant that they shouldn’t do it now. Maybe it is just about PR. Or maybe they genuinely mean what they are saying and believe in the movement. The important thing is they are doing something about it now.
Piginapoke said:
OK Einstein; if addressing racial inequality is so important to Merc, why did it wait for the BLM movement/George Floyd bandwagon?
No F1 cars have been racing this year, and have hardly been on track since testing in February. There was an extended shutdown for 63 days. F1 is now back and restarting. Without the pandemic, all this may have happened earlier. Nampahc Niloc said:
Can we try and not resort to playground insults.
You’re right in saying that Mercedes should have done something before now. The whole world should have done something before now, some have, many have not. That doesn’t meant that they shouldn’t do it now. Maybe it is just about PR. Or maybe they genuinely mean what they are saying and believe in the movement. The important thing is they are doing something about it now.
This is true. If organisations are criticised for doing something good today because they didn't do it yesterday, that just puts them off making changes. All this talk of corporate hypocrisy and the endless examples of it is just pointless. It's plain as day they can't change all things overnight, but any change is better than no change at all. Even if it is driven initially by PR, the fact is it's happening and will have an effect. More of an effect than doing bugger all..You’re right in saying that Mercedes should have done something before now. The whole world should have done something before now, some have, many have not. That doesn’t meant that they shouldn’t do it now. Maybe it is just about PR. Or maybe they genuinely mean what they are saying and believe in the movement. The important thing is they are doing something about it now.
The teams that so have done bugger all aren't being criticised regardless of who their sponsors/owners are!
So we have some people saying that they are wrong to get involved in making the world a better place because their only legitimate function is to make money, and others saying that their apparent attempt to make the world better is wrong because it's really about selling cars?
Can't people just be honest and say they're big fans of racism?
Can't people just be honest and say they're big fans of racism?
otolith said:
So we have some people saying that they are wrong to get involved in making the world a better place because their only legitimate function is to make money, and others saying that their apparent attempt to make the world better is wrong because it's really about selling cars?
Can't people just be honest and say they're big fans of racism?
I don't think it's racism so much as people seeking to prove how wise they are by pointing out the 'hidden truths' behind Mercedes positive action. Entirely missing the point that action now is better than no action now, regardless of what motivates that action or what has happened in the past.Can't people just be honest and say they're big fans of racism?
The net result is that Mercedes have people thinking about an important issue and are publicly launching an initiative to examine their own equality imbalance and how to address it. If they can make an extra billion at the same time, fine - that's their primary purpose and that is correct.
ajprice said:
Piginapoke said:
OK Einstein; if addressing racial inequality is so important to Merc, why did it wait for the BLM movement/George Floyd bandwagon?
No F1 cars have been racing this year, and have hardly been on track since testing in February. There was an extended shutdown for 63 days. F1 is now back and restarting. Without the pandemic, all this may have happened earlier. What has this season of F1 got to do with injustice ?
Mercedes could have done something years ago if this particular issue is ingrained in its philosophy.
Will they revert to Silver Arrows next season ?
Bo_apex said:
Sammy Davis Jnr was the headline star in Vegas and yet was only allowed to enter the venue via the kitchen door.
What has this season of F1 got to do with injustice ?
Mercedes could have done something years ago if this particular issue is ingrained in its philosophy.
Will they revert to Silver Arrows next season ?
So because they didn't do something before, they shouldn't bother now. What has this season of F1 got to do with injustice ?
Mercedes could have done something years ago if this particular issue is ingrained in its philosophy.
Will they revert to Silver Arrows next season ?
TheDeuce said:
I don't think it's racism so much as people seeking to prove how wise they are by pointing out the 'hidden truths' behind Mercedes positive action. Entirely missing the point that action now is better than no action now, regardless of what motivates that action or what has happened in the past.
The net result is that Mercedes have people thinking about an important issue and are publicly launching an initiative to examine their own equality imbalance and how to address it. If they can make an extra billion at the same time, fine - that's their primary purpose and that is correct.
You're right Deuce, not finding Merc's actions authentic is not the same as being racist. I raise an eyebrow that Merc has publicly taken up this issue so vigorously whilst not having privately been sufficiently interested until now to address its own internal failings. The net result is that Mercedes have people thinking about an important issue and are publicly launching an initiative to examine their own equality imbalance and how to address it. If they can make an extra billion at the same time, fine - that's their primary purpose and that is correct.
Bo_apex said:
ajprice said:
Piginapoke said:
OK Einstein; if addressing racial inequality is so important to Merc, why did it wait for the BLM movement/George Floyd bandwagon?
No F1 cars have been racing this year, and have hardly been on track since testing in February. There was an extended shutdown for 63 days. F1 is now back and restarting. Without the pandemic, all this may have happened earlier. What has this season of F1 got to do with injustice ?
Mercedes could have done something years ago if this particular issue is ingrained in its philosophy.
Will they revert to Silver Arrows next season ?
“You’re right in saying that Mercedes should have done something before now. The whole world should have done something before now, some have, many have not. That doesn’t meant that they shouldn’t do it now. Maybe it is just about PR. Or maybe they genuinely mean what they are saying and believe in the movement. The important thing is they are doing something about it now.”
As for there livery next season, I don’t think it matters so much as long as their work behind the scenes continues.
Piginapoke said:
TheDeuce said:
I don't think it's racism so much as people seeking to prove how wise they are by pointing out the 'hidden truths' behind Mercedes positive action. Entirely missing the point that action now is better than no action now, regardless of what motivates that action or what has happened in the past.
The net result is that Mercedes have people thinking about an important issue and are publicly launching an initiative to examine their own equality imbalance and how to address it. If they can make an extra billion at the same time, fine - that's their primary purpose and that is correct.
You're right Deuce, not finding Merc's actions authentic is not the same as being racist. I raise an eyebrow that Merc has publicly taken up this issue so vigorously whilst not having privately been sufficiently interested until now to address its own internal failings. The net result is that Mercedes have people thinking about an important issue and are publicly launching an initiative to examine their own equality imbalance and how to address it. If they can make an extra billion at the same time, fine - that's their primary purpose and that is correct.
Piginapoke said:
TheDeuce said:
I don't think it's racism so much as people seeking to prove how wise they are by pointing out the 'hidden truths' behind Mercedes positive action. Entirely missing the point that action now is better than no action now, regardless of what motivates that action or what has happened in the past.
The net result is that Mercedes have people thinking about an important issue and are publicly launching an initiative to examine their own equality imbalance and how to address it. If they can make an extra billion at the same time, fine - that's their primary purpose and that is correct.
You're right Deuce, not finding Merc's actions authentic is not the same as being racist. I raise an eyebrow that Merc has publicly taken up this issue so vigorously whilst not having privately been sufficiently interested until now to address its own internal failings. The net result is that Mercedes have people thinking about an important issue and are publicly launching an initiative to examine their own equality imbalance and how to address it. If they can make an extra billion at the same time, fine - that's their primary purpose and that is correct.
As regards Mercedes internal failings - we have to wait and see what their initiative turns up. It could be that there are no blocks to anyone entering their workforce, and that the limiting factors that cause less black people to apply in the first place are further down the road, education/vocation choices etc.. All they have said they will do is explore why the imbalance exists and address anything they find that they can improve. Along with the symbol of the black car, which as a talking point could well attract more talent to the team, that for whatever reasons may have the team wasn't fully open to them in the past. The car is the advert, the work behind the scenes might yield some real value and insight though.
PanicBuyingBogRoll said:
Bo_apex said:
Sammy Davis Jnr was the headline star in Vegas and yet was only allowed to enter the venue via the kitchen door.
What has this season of F1 got to do with injustice ?
Mercedes could have done something years ago if this particular issue is ingrained in its philosophy.
Will they revert to Silver Arrows next season ?
So because they didn't do something before, they shouldn't bother now. What has this season of F1 got to do with injustice ?
Mercedes could have done something years ago if this particular issue is ingrained in its philosophy.
Will they revert to Silver Arrows next season ?
Corporate inauthenticity at worst, or commercially opportunistic at best.
Perhaps they will truly change, or maybe it will fizzle out as the media frenzy declines.
Time will tell.
ch37 said:
If, statistically, certain groups are less likely to be shortlisted despite having similar quals/experience as others, guaranteeing an interview at least removes one of those steps where unconscious bias can form a barrier to entry.
Being offered a guaranteed interview on the basis of your ethnicity alone does nothing to remove unconscious bias as that bias would still remain at interview anyway if it truly exists as you suggest it does. It will however provide those from a BAME background a unique opportunity not provided to anyone else. If any business provided that opportunity the other way around it would be considered an outrage. True equality will only come once the same opportunity is provided for all people regardless of background. Opening the door to an interview just because you are from a ethnic minority background does not achieve that. It actually sends the opposite message and dispels the theory that hard work is the best method of career progression which should be the case if everyone is treated equally.
To put an F1 spin on it, it is the equivalent of the smallest F1 team being allowed to run a lighter car in a race to supposedly level the playing field. Quite clearly Ferrari would never accept it and rightly so.
TwentyFive said:
To put an F1 spin on it, it is the equivalent of the smallest F1 team being allowed to run a lighter car in a race to supposedly level the playing field. Quite clearly Ferrari would never accept it and rightly so.
Is it your contention then that there is already a level playing field? That opportunity is equal? What do you believe is the reason that outcome is not?otolith said:
Is it your contention then that there is already a level playing field? That opportunity is equal? What do you believe is the reason that outcome is not?
I have edited my response as I realised misinterpreted what you said. To answer your question, yes there is a level playing field in F1. Everyone has the same rule book to interpret and everyone starts on zero points.
I presume you are looking at the angle that some teams are more wealthy than others but that has been addressed with the budget cap coming in too.
If we want every outcome to be equal then we may as well start handing out participation medals in F1 at the end of the year and scrap the WDC.
Outcomes in life will never be equal whether we like it or not.
Edited by TwentyFive on Thursday 2nd July 15:57
TwentyFive said:
otolith said:
Is it your contention then that there is already a level playing field? That opportunity is equal? What do you believe is the reason that outcome is not?
I have edited my response as I realised misinterpreted what you said. To answer your question, yes there is a level playing field in F1. Everyone has the same rule book to interpret and everyone starts on zero points.
I presume you are looking at the angle that some teams are more wealthy than others but that has been addressed with the budget cap coming in too.
If we want every outcome to be equal then we may as well start handing out participation medals in F1 at the end of the year and scrap the WDC.
Outcomes in life will never be equal whether we like it or not.
Edited by TwentyFive on Thursday 2nd July 15:57
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