The Official F1 2021 silly season *contains speculation*

[talksthetorque]

TheDeuce said:

Well they're going to have a vague idea if they have a weapon this season aren't they?? If they thought they were headed towards battling and beating the rest of midfield they wouldn't disrupt the team by sacking the TP.

Hence, I suspect they don't have very much for 21'. If you disagree and you have time to spare between laughing at others opinions, I'd love you to contribute your own

My utter guess is that they are focussed on ‘22 and they want to give the new management a low expectation year to bed in. I think Cyril is the type of guy who - given the heady mix of being a racer, straight talking and career minded could upset/concern
some fragile board level egos.
He also lost DR as a driver and Red Bull, McLaren and Toro Rosso (twice) as a PU customer, which can’t have helped.

[paua]

CanAm said:

Flooble said:

It'll be funny if they end up pushing the 21 regs back again and Alonso is 42 before they get their "new" car. He will be vying with Mansell for oldest podium finisher.

Mansell wasn't the oldest by a long way.

And JM Fangio was still winning titles at 46

[thegreenhell]

paua said:

And JM Fangio was still winning titles at 46

Back when the drivers were fat and the tyres were skinny.

[anonymous-user]

talksthetorque said:

My utter guess is that they are focussed on ‘22 and they want to give the new management a low expectation year to bed in. I think Cyril is the type of guy who - given the heady mix of being a racer, straight talking and career minded could upset/concern
some fragile board level egos.
He also lost DR as a driver and Red Bull, McLaren and Toro Rosso (twice) as a PU customer, which can’t have helped.

My utter guess is that the Renault F1 project is not that secure and Cyril left because of it.

[TheDeuce]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

talksthetorque said:

My utter guess is that they are focussed on ‘22 and they want to give the new management a low expectation year to bed in. I think Cyril is the type of guy who - given the heady mix of being a racer, straight talking and career minded could upset/concern
some fragile board level egos.
He also lost DR as a driver and Red Bull, McLaren and Toro Rosso (twice) as a PU customer, which can’t have helped.

My utter guess is that the Renault F1 project is not that secure and Cyril left because of it.

Flip that guess either way...

Cyril was booted because the project has failed in terms of demonstrating 'renault power' or at achieving useful results on track.

Or...

Cyril has left for the same reasons because he can't accomplish what is expected with the resources given.

Whichever it is it's yet another foray of Renault in to F1 that has been underwhelming. And now, as previously, they've rebranded but will lurk in the background until such time as they're happy to boldly return as Renault - and be proudly underwhelming once again.

The French seem hell bent on remaining in F1 to the point they'll happily ask the taxpayer to foot the costs. The reality of the situation is that their home circuit is about the least liked on the calender, no one wants their PU and they rudely got beaten by their own customer team - who also no longer wants their power unit despite beating them with it. Go figure... I honestly have no idea how french politicians defend the cost of French involvement in F1 these days.

[anonymous-user]

To be fair to Renault, since 1990 they've powered the drivers' championship winning car in '95, '96, '97, '05, '06, '10, '11, '12 and '13.

[Sandpit Steve]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

To be fair to Renault, since 1990 they've powered the drivers' championship winning car in '95, '96, '97, '05, '06, '10, '11, '12 and '13.

Indeed so, following which they appear to have woefully underestimated the costs of keeping the programme running through the hybrid era - especially on the PU side, but also the car side if they wanted to be competitive.

As others have said, getting beaten by their own customer - who then decided to no longer be a customer, and poached their star driver at the same time - would likely have been the final straw in the relationship between CA and the Renault board. I can well imagine both sides being unhappy with the situation, to the point where there was no chance at all of CA remaining with the company.

Edited by Sandpit Steve on Monday 22 February 07:33

[WickerBill]

I’m sure I remember reading somewhere Renault got a helping hand to be cooperative in either the v8 or v10 era....something about being able to replace the pistons more often for reliability etc...can’t remember the specifics

[TheDeuce]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

To be fair to Renault, since 1990 they've powered the drivers' championship winning car in '95, '96, '97, '05, '06, '10, '11, '12 and '13.

Indeed, and they've been an important figure in F1 for a very long time - the sport should be grateful for that. I'm grateful for it.

I'm just questioning what the Renault brand and those paying for it have to be grateful for since their return for the hybrid era..

[TwentyFive]

thegreenhell said:

paua said:

And JM Fangio was still winning titles at 46

Back when the drivers were fat and the tyres were skinny.

Yes, the oldest podium finisher ever is Luigi Fagioli. He won the 1951 French GP.

He was 53.

[Sandpit Steve]

TwentyFive said:

Yes, the oldest podium finisher ever is Luigi Fagioli. He won the 1951 French GP.

He was 53.

It’s fair to say that record is going to stand for a while!

Current oldest drivers are Kimi (41), Fernando (39) and Lewis (36).

[andburg]

Let’s be honest, it’ll never be beaten.

The physical requirements of driving an f1 car are now so much higher

[Teppic]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

To be fair to Renault, since 1990 they've powered the drivers' championship winning car in '95, '96, '97, '05, '06, '10, '11, '12 and '13.

Not to mention, of course, '92 and '93

They powered the Constructors' championship winning car in '94 as well, so as an engine supplier or team they won in '92, '93, '94, '95, '96, '97, '05, '06, '10, '11, '12 and '13. That's quite an impressive tally.

[anonymous-user]

I forgot about '92/'93.

[Leithen]

andburg said:

Let’s be honest, it’ll never be beaten.

The physical requirements of driving an f1 car are now so much higher

Apart from gonads dimensions.

[TheDeuce]

Teppic said:

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

To be fair to Renault, since 1990 they've powered the drivers' championship winning car in '95, '96, '97, '05, '06, '10, '11, '12 and '13.

Not to mention, of course, '92 and '93

They powered the Constructors' championship winning car in '94 as well, so as an engine supplier or team they won in '92, '93, '94, '95, '96, '97, '05, '06, '10, '11, '12 and '13. That's quite an impressive tally.

It's very impressive, and as a result of being a key supplier of PU's to the sport they were heavily involved in the formulation of the hybrid spec - F1 has to consult with those it hopes will develop and supply the new spec units and I imagine during those discussions Renault had a lot of clout - they're certainly a supplier that F1 would not want to lose..

But then Mercedes absolutely nailed the new hybrid PU - hit the ground running. Renault were left playing catch up and for whatever reason never really have caught up (taking in to account usability/durability in addition to peak power).

Maybe it's as simple as them not investing heavily enough in the new spec PU program at the beginning, perhaps they misjudged the complexity/cost, or the level of investment Mercedes put in to their own hybrid development.

[Supersam83]

Teppic said:

They powered the Constructors' championship winning car in '94 as well, so as an engine supplier or team they won in '92, '93, '94, '95, '96, '97, '05, '06, '10, '11, '12 and '13. That's quite an impressive tally.

List of F1 world constructors champions by engine's:

Ferrari = 16
Renault = 12
Ford = 10
Mercedes = 9
Honda = 6
Climax = 4
Repco = 2
TAG-Porsche = 2
Vanwall = 1
BRM = 1

Not a bad haul by Renault to be honest.

[Fundoreen]

Supersam83 said:

Teppic said:

They powered the Constructors' championship winning car in '94 as well, so as an engine supplier or team they won in '92, '93, '94, '95, '96, '97, '05, '06, '10, '11, '12 and '13. That's quite an impressive tally.

List of F1 world constructors champions by engine's:

Ferrari = 16
Renault = 12
Ford = 10
Mercedes = 9
Honda = 6
Climax = 4
Repco = 2
TAG-Porsche = 2
Vanwall = 1
BRM = 1

Not a bad haul by Renault to be honest.

Always worth a reminder. F1 has an element of newbie supporting whoevers winning this week. In football its what used to be a man u fan.

[TheDeuce]

Supersam83 said:

List of F1 world constructors champions by engine's:

Ferrari = 16
Renault = 12
Ford = 10
Mercedes = 9
Honda = 6
Climax = 4
Repco = 2
TAG-Porsche = 2
Vanwall = 1
BRM = 1

Not a bad haul by Renault to be honest.

Indeed, they're fairly fundamental to the sport. No wonder Brawn is looking at two stroke as a potential future spec for F1, Renault have themselves done a great deal off research in to two stroke and have proven prototypes of the tech - it's likely therefore that it's them that's bought that particular idea to the table.

Of course, the sport also has to work for Renault commercially on some level. It's hard to see how this era has done them very good in that respect - especially ending by them getting bested by their own customer who then ditches their PU in-spite of it being good enough to beat the Renault works car. That's not a great way to wrap up and already fairly fruitless era for Renault in F1.

On that basis, I do hope they are given genuine support in F1 as the sport transitions through new regs and crucially a new PU spec - they will probably need some incentives to remain.

[HighwayToHull]

Has anyone ever worked out who would have won the Constructors' Championship between 1950 and 57, had there been one?