Sebastian Vettel

[Munter]

Muzzer79 said:

Munter said:

Seems great out the car but only won in a cheaty car, never shone in anything else

He has won race(s) in

2008 Toro Rosso
2009-2013 Red Bull
2015 Ferrari
2017-2019 Ferrari

Please explain how/why these were all "cheaty cars"

Won. As in the whole thing. I don't recall any championships being won by him in a Torro Rosso etc.

But then that was obvious, so no doubt you'll also try and find some other "but you didn't explain in intimate detail the meaning of every word" issue as well

[Munter]

HustleRussell said:

Munter said:

Several years late, but finally he's going. Seems great out the car but only won in a cheaty car, never shone in anything else

I take it your memory doesn't extend as far back as his Toro Rosso / Red Bull years?

...the RedBull years were what I was referring to...

Vettel won in a (flexible) car that didn't meet the rules. Just the tests. And in a way that was blatant to the viewer. Nobody likes to see that, and it taints any achievement of his from that period. Outside of that period he's nothing to shout about as a driver. Middle of the grid stuff with numerous questionable decisions.

[HustleRussell]

You don’t like Vettel, we can see that, but what you’re saying about race wins not being ‘wins’ and the Red Bull being cheaty is nonsense.

[Durzel]

Lol normally people make some token effort to hide their prejudice, but not in this case.

[vulture1]

Soooo Have mercedes just found a seat for Nick De fries for next season?

[Munter]

HustleRussell said:

You don’t like Vettel, we can see that, but what you’re saying about race wins not being ‘wins’ and the Red Bull being cheaty is nonsense.

Sorry I assumed a certain level of...knowledge of the topic and ability to interpret information?

I can't believe you know so little about F1 you'd think Vettel didn't win some races in other cars. I'd assumed readers on this forum could see what I'd typed and instantly realise it was referring to championships because otherwise...it wouldn't make sense. I presumed you to be able to do that.

Apparently not. My mistake.

The Red Bull was hugely cheaty. The whole front of the car drooped in some years. To jump around going "yay I'm the winner" when the whole crowd's going "yeah, but your cars so illegal it's unreal", shouldn't be the pinnacle of a drivers career. It doesn't look good.

[ch37]

Muzzer79 said:

I reckon he'll go into Sportscars.

6 races per year will give him plenty of time with his family.

Yeah I think some are reading too much into the retirement. 3 young kids and an insane F1 calendar (that is likely to get busier) don't really sit well together. Can't blame him at all in that respect, but hope he does crop up in some series which are far less demanding of his time.

[HustleRussell]

Munter said:

HustleRussell said:

You don’t like Vettel, we can see that, but what you’re saying about race wins not being ‘wins’ and the Red Bull being cheaty is nonsense.

Sorry I assumed a certain level of...knowledge of the topic and ability to interpret information?

I can't believe you know so little about F1 you'd think Vettel didn't win some races in other cars. I'd assumed readers on this forum could see what I'd typed and instantly realise it was referring to championships because otherwise...it wouldn't make sense. I presumed you to be able to do that.

Apparently not. My mistake.

The Red Bull was hugely cheaty. The whole front of the car drooped in some years. To jump around going "yay I'm the winner" when the whole crowd's going "yeah, but your cars so illegal it's unreal", shouldn't be the pinnacle of a drivers career. It doesn't look good.

You’re coming off really aggressive here. Bad day?

[MiniMan64]

Vettel retires before Fernando….

[Leithen]

MiniMan64 said:

Vettel retires before Fernando….

Everyone will retire before Fernando.

[entropy]

Muzzer79 said:

He has won race(s) in

2008 Toro Rosso

The issue I have with Vettel is that I struggle to think of races as good as his sensational first win in the wet in a Toro Rosso.

I'm hoping for someone to convince me otherwise.

[HTP99]

entropy said:

Muzzer79 said:

He has won race(s) in

2008 Toro Rosso

The issue I have with Vettel is that I struggle to think of races as good as his sensational first win in the wet in a Toro Rosso.

I'm hoping for someone to convince me otherwise.

Didn't Toro Rosso take a huge gamble on a wet set up for that race, everyone else was on a dry set up?

[Muzzer79]

Munter said:

Muzzer79 said:

Munter said:

Seems great out the car but only won in a cheaty car, never shone in anything else

He has won race(s) in

2008 Toro Rosso
2009-2013 Red Bull
2015 Ferrari
2017-2019 Ferrari

Please explain how/why these were all "cheaty cars"

Won. As in the whole thing. I don't recall any championships being won by him in a Torro Rosso etc.

But then that was obvious, so no doubt you'll also try and find some other "but you didn't explain in intimate detail the meaning of every word" issue as well

Sorry, left my crystal ball at home today, so I thought 'won' meant........well, won.

[rampageturke]

Don't think he's past it, just been getting st cars and st opportunities.

A Ferrari LMH seat coming up? Would be cool I suppose.

[ntiz]

entropy said:

Muzzer79 said:

He has won race(s) in

2008 Toro Rosso

The issue I have with Vettel is that I struggle to think of races as good as his sensational first win in the wet in a Toro Rosso.

I'm hoping for someone to convince me otherwise.

I’m probably wrong but I think there was a weird statistic during his RedBull days that he had never won any further back than the second row. Which if true means there won’t be many Uber exciting wins.

I think it’s trait of how RedBull operated. My memory is hazy but I seem to remember it was mega important for them to get pole, as the car wasn’t great in dirty air. So they set the car up to be really quick over one lap to get pole then put in a quick first stint to get a gap then throttles back to save everything.

All of which doesn’t lead to many charges through the pack. He was crushingly good at it though. As the record of 9 on the bounce suggests. I’m a Hamilton fan but he has never got close to stringing that many together. Despite having the car to do so.

He has had a curious career though. Blew everyone away for 4 years seemed the real deal, then beaten up by Riccardo and Le Clerc with all kinds of bizzar mistakes that make you question how good was he?

Edited by ntiz on Thursday 28th July 16:27

[Sandpit Steve]

Muzzer79 said:

I reckon he'll go into Sportscars.

6 races per year will give him plenty of time with his family.

If you were running a factory entry into the new Le Mans Hypercars next year, he’d have to be pretty close to the top of your list, wouldn’t he?

Marketing gold, and just the guy you’d want in a new car that needs quickly developing. For Seb, a much easier calendar than the F1 circus, and an order of magnitude fewer non-driving commitments to sponsors and media.

[vaud]

Sandpit Steve said:

If you were running a factory entry into the new Le Mans Hypercars next year, he’d have to be pretty close to the top of your list, wouldn’t he?

Marketing gold, and just the guy you’d want in a new car that needs quickly developing. For Seb, a much easier calendar than the F1 circus, and an order of magnitude fewer non-driving commitments to sponsors and media.

Vettel-Kimi for Le Mans would be epic. Or Vettel-Button?

[Sandpit Steve]

HTP99 said:

Didn't Toro Rosso take a huge gamble on a wet set up for that race, everyone else was on a dry set up?

It was wet all weekend, Seb and STR managed to nail it on Saturday to get the pole, then held on to the lead on Sunday. A genuine win, rather than a setup fluke.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=W_Znj_5t4pE

[stemll]

HustleRussell said:

So sad to see Seb retire. He's only 35! Will be much missed by the sport. He is one of the two 'grown ups' who takes on the wider issues.

TheDeuce said:

AHH Seb. Gonna miss that guy!

Potentially very good news for DR though

Aston Martin would've known about this for a while presumably and DR said he is 'staying at Mclaren' only a week ago.

DR said "(I) am not walking away from the sport". Doesn't mean he's not being pushed away

Edited by stemll on Thursday 28th July 18:14

[Milkyway]

I’m not really surprised at his announcement... I was expecting it last year.
You can see that the fire in his belly has gone & he’s flogging a dead horse to boot.
He will be a loss to F1, & I hope that he can enjoy his ‘retirement’ & enjoy family life.