The Official Japanese GP thread 2013
Discussion
suffolk009 said:
Fair point that few people are talking about Romain in that vein now. Although I did see (I think Lewis) talking to Brundle at the skypad showing a wide line when overtaking, "Yeah, well, I was going past Grosjean". So maybe his previous reputation is now a help to him.
It looked to me that there was plenty of room on Seb's right for him to have avoided tapping Lewis.
well to me after watching the replay it looked like Vettel held pretty much straight on until Lewis hit him... It was Lewis moving right to try and cover off, if anything he should have allowed Vettel more room. It looked to me that there was plenty of room on Seb's right for him to have avoided tapping Lewis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-OQS5hIJlg
Edited by VolvoT5 on Sunday 13th October 16:53
VolvoT5 said:
well to me after watching the replay it looked like Vettel held pretty much straight on until Lewis hit him... It was Lewis moving right to try and cover off, if anything he should have allowed Vettel more room.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-OQS5hIJlg
Hamilton is right up against Webbers tyres, he hasn't got any choice, the only person that did was Vettel, but he probably thought he was clear, given he only clipped the corner of the front wing.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-OQS5hIJlg
Edited by VolvoT5 on Sunday 13th October 16:53
Pretty ironic that the FIA brought in regulations for the front wing radii to stop things like this happening, then they go and give Pirelli a mandate for tyres that requires weak shoulders that encourages it....arse vs both hands comes to mind.
vonuber said:
toppstuff said:
Thats my take. And Im convinced that Webbers car is a couple of tenths slower, regardless of the driver.
I'm curious, why not the simpler explanation that he is just not as fast? It is my belief that RB have such an exceptional car, that they decided to manage the gap between their drivers in order to reduce the chances of any on track clashes after the "Multi 21" debacle. Sponsors hated that silly affair. RB realised they had a much better car than anyone else with a margin to spare, so they have engineered a difference between the cars so as to ensure they minimise their time near each other on the track.
Setting a clear driver hierarchy in the team is not just about managing the drivers for Red Bull, they have such a technological and design advantage this season that they can also afford to manage the difference between one car and another, without prejudicing the teams overall performance.
It is interesting how since "Multi 21" the RB's have never been near each other on a track. I think this is intentional.
Mark is not as far behind Seb as you think. And certainly not as far behind as these recent performances suggest.
Hell, the two cars don't even sound the same anymore...
Sir Bagalot said:
Purposely I skipped to the end of the thread whilst the rerun started on BBC. I don't think it unreasonable not to expect people to reveal, or hint, at the result
The rule is dont start a thread with the result. The actual main race thread started before the race includes comments as the race progresses. So avoid it if you dont want to see the result. In fact you are best to avoid radio, twitter, facebook or any other form of media if you dont want to hear the result before you've watched a rerun. Gazzab said:
Sir Bagalot said:
Purposely I skipped to the end of the thread whilst the rerun started on BBC. I don't think it unreasonable not to expect people to reveal, or hint, at the result
The rule is dont start a thread with the result. The actual main race thread started before the race includes comments as the race progresses. So avoid it if you dont want to see the result. In fact you are best to avoid radio, twitter, facebook or any other form of media if you dont want to hear the result before you've watched a rerun. Jasandjules said:
toppstuff said:
The gap is not as great as people seem to think it is. So logic suggests there is more to it than that.
So you are saying that it is logical for a company to deliberately miss millions of pounds of revenue by making their second car too bad to compete ?And how on earth will RB lose revenue by favouring one driver over another? That is just daft - this has been happening in F1 for years.
Far from being daft I think it is naive in the extreme to seriously believe that both cars are equal. It is not so in RB, and it is not so across F1. To believe that Webber has the same car as Vettel is naive IMO. Of course he has'nt got the same car.
It has always been this way. Piquet and Mansell, Schumacher and Herbert - their cars were'nt the same either. We know that now, it is common knowledge. Why would RB in 2013 be any different?
Sir Bagalot said:
Purposely I skipped to the end of the thread whilst the rerun started on BBC. I don't think it unreasonable not to expect people to reveal, or hint, at the result
That's logical, you're avoiding the result so you not only enter this thread, but you skip to the end where everyone is likely to be discussing and analysing the result. valais said:
ash73 said:
toppstuff said:
they have engineered a difference between the cars
Don't be daft.Mark is not one to hold back - he would have said so if he thought that was the case?
Wait for his memoirs in a few years time. There will be massive revelations and general outrage. Mark my words.
toppstuff said:
valais said:
ash73 said:
toppstuff said:
they have engineered a difference between the cars
Don't be daft.Mark is not one to hold back - he would have said so if he thought that was the case?
Wait for his memoirs in a few years time. There will be massive revelations and general outrage. Mark my words.
PiB said:
Mark and his wife have noted his number 2 status which generally means inferior treatment and mechanicals compared to the number 1. After awhile there no point in continuing to complain publicly. RBR will get drivers and constructors championships so plenty of $$$.
Yep. I am amazed that people seriously think that Seb has the same car as Mark. Of course he does not. Of course Seb has the faster car. Its silly to think otherwise.toppstuff said:
Thats my take. And Im convinced that Webbers car is a couple of tenths slower, regardless of the driver.
The Webber pitstop was most likely done with eyes on second not first, but couldn't the reason for Webber's car being slower simply be that he's a big guy and Vettel is short, giving Vettel a slight weight advantage, rather than some conspiracy theory?RB favour vettel so much it stinks... They clearly brought mark in two early, so to free vettel up... And if webber was leading with one tyre stop do go, then they would get the faulty wheel gun from out the back... oh dear sorry mark.
I am not a Not a real webber fan, I just like fairness.
I am not a Not a real webber fan, I just like fairness.
Taura said:
RB favour vettel so much it stinks... They clearly brought mark in two early, so to free vettel up... And if webber was leading with one tyre stop do go, then they would get the faulty wheel gun from out the back... oh dear sorry mark.
I am not a Not a real webber fan, I just like fairness.
Then pick a different sport. Driver equity is a myth in front running teams.I am not a Not a real webber fan, I just like fairness.
Imo the fact it took Webber forever and a day to pass Grosjean, when Vettel got the job done pretty much the first time he was in the DRS zone speaks volumes.
Webber was even on the softer compound tyre too, and took over 1.6 seconds a lap out of Grosjean as he was chasing him after the pit stop, so clearly had a much faster car.
As I think Coulthard said after the race the longer you are behind someone the easier it becomes for the guy in front to work out when you're making your moves to overtake and defend accordingly. Webber had more than one aborted attempt at overtaking, Grosjean quickly had the measure of him and in the end it took back markers to make an overtake stick.
Whilst I do think the RBR pit stop strategy had more to do with benefiting Vettel them Webber you can't argue that he didn't have the tools to do the job. 1.6 seconds out of Grosjean when he was chasing would've probably been a similar amount out of Vettel at the end (as Seb was on the slower tyre too, the same as Grosjean) and we might've had a race on our hands.
Long story short, Vettel got the job done when it mattered, Webber languished around when he needed to get past. It's why he isn't leading the championship.
Webber was even on the softer compound tyre too, and took over 1.6 seconds a lap out of Grosjean as he was chasing him after the pit stop, so clearly had a much faster car.
As I think Coulthard said after the race the longer you are behind someone the easier it becomes for the guy in front to work out when you're making your moves to overtake and defend accordingly. Webber had more than one aborted attempt at overtaking, Grosjean quickly had the measure of him and in the end it took back markers to make an overtake stick.
Whilst I do think the RBR pit stop strategy had more to do with benefiting Vettel them Webber you can't argue that he didn't have the tools to do the job. 1.6 seconds out of Grosjean when he was chasing would've probably been a similar amount out of Vettel at the end (as Seb was on the slower tyre too, the same as Grosjean) and we might've had a race on our hands.
Long story short, Vettel got the job done when it mattered, Webber languished around when he needed to get past. It's why he isn't leading the championship.
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