The Official Japanese GP thread 2013
Discussion
I can understand why Red Bull wanted one driver on a two stop and the other on a three, it covered any tyre problems on the two stop and kept both drivers apart for most of the race.
I can also see why Webber might feel that he got the inferior strategy but I don't think it really mattered one way or the other, if Vettel had been three stopping we would have seen a series of fastest laps followed by a couple of clinical overtakes - and that's assuming he wouldn't have had a pit stop in his pocket my the time he needed his third stop. I'm no Vettel fan, but he does have the Schumacher knack of putting in fast laps when he needs them.
Vettel got past Grosjean when Grosjean's tyres were a lot newer than when Webber tried the same, and Webber was on the medium tyre at the time which should have been faster. The unfortunate fact is that Vettel is good at what he does.
I can also see why Webber might feel that he got the inferior strategy but I don't think it really mattered one way or the other, if Vettel had been three stopping we would have seen a series of fastest laps followed by a couple of clinical overtakes - and that's assuming he wouldn't have had a pit stop in his pocket my the time he needed his third stop. I'm no Vettel fan, but he does have the Schumacher knack of putting in fast laps when he needs them.
Vettel got past Grosjean when Grosjean's tyres were a lot newer than when Webber tried the same, and Webber was on the medium tyre at the time which should have been faster. The unfortunate fact is that Vettel is good at what he does.
Webber is just not as good as Vettel. It's no more than this - Webber had his chance in 2010 and blew it under pressure. Vettel didn't and hasn't looked back - the worst you can say about RedBull is that they have backed (and rightly so) the winning horse.
In comparison, look at the small amount of abuse alonso gets for having blatant favouritism. Why is this never mentioned?
In comparison, look at the small amount of abuse alonso gets for having blatant favouritism. Why is this never mentioned?
It is pretty obvious how happy Webber is with the treatment he gets at Red Bull based on where he is driving next year, he has made his decision. He may not ultimately be as fast as Vettel, but he is not as favoured by Helmut Marko or Christian Horner as Vettel and suffers much more because of that Than any lack of ultimate pace. As for overtaking, there have been plenty of instances where Webber has shown capability to pass people.
snorkel sucker said:
....but Pirelli are only acting on their instructions from those in F1...
If anyone is likely to speak their mind once their ties with F1 are over its Webber.
I wish others would pay attention to this. Paul Hembry has left twitter because of numbskulls sending a constant tirade of abuse.If anyone is likely to speak their mind once their ties with F1 are over its Webber.
Pirelli are doing the job asked of them.
RumbleOfThunder said:
David Croft @CroftyF1 38m
Hulk to Ferrari. Alonso to McLaren. Chilton to Force India. Magnussen to Marussia
Raised eyebrow here. Thats going to be interesting if it happens. Di Resta out at FI then ?Hulk to Ferrari. Alonso to McLaren. Chilton to Force India. Magnussen to Marussia
I know Chilton gets lots of stick and will never be a mega star but I think he's improved massively over this season and has his head down working hard, good for him. Daddy might of bought the seat, but lets face it every single one of us would do exactly what he is doing given the chance.
Crafty_ said:
snorkel sucker said:
....but Pirelli are only acting on their instructions from those in F1...
If anyone is likely to speak their mind once their ties with F1 are over its Webber.
I wish others would pay attention to this. Paul Hembry has left twitter because of numbskulls sending a constant tirade of abuse.If anyone is likely to speak their mind once their ties with F1 are over its Webber.
Pirelli are doing the job asked of them.
valais said:
Is there any good reason why McLaren wouldn't hire Hulkenburg?
Young, capable, solid finisher, no Perez-like moments... Perez not confirmed so they must be looking...
Too heavy according to martin Whitmarsh.Young, capable, solid finisher, no Perez-like moments... Perez not confirmed so they must be looking...
Although as they are presumably already designing a car to suit Button who is similar size and weight I am surprised they see it as an issue.
Rollcage said:
Crafty_ said:
snorkel sucker said:
....but Pirelli are only acting on their instructions from those in F1...
If anyone is likely to speak their mind once their ties with F1 are over its Webber.
I wish others would pay attention to this. Paul Hembry has left twitter because of numbskulls sending a constant tirade of abuse.If anyone is likely to speak their mind once their ties with F1 are over its Webber.
Pirelli are doing the job asked of them.
Am I right in thinking that Webbers DRS failed hence he was unable to pass Grosjean at the earlier opportunity? I still don't see why he was brought in with so few laps left? Especially given the times he was putting in and how long the tyres had been lasting. It didn't help matters when Christian Horner evaded answering the question.
e21Mark said:
Am I right in thinking that Webbers DRS failed hence he was unable to pass Grosjean at the earlier opportunity? I still don't see why he was brought in with so few laps left? Especially given the times he was putting in and how long the tyres had been lasting. It didn't help matters when Christian Horner evaded answering the question.
Did Marks DRS fail? I didnt here about that?toppstuff said:
The gap is not as great as people seem to think it is. So logic suggests there is more to it than that.
It is my belief that RB have such an exceptional car, that they decided to manage the gap between their drivers in order to reduce the chances of any on track clashes after the "Multi 21" debacle. Sponsors hated that silly affair. RB realised they had a much better car than anyone else with a margin to spare, so they have engineered a difference between the cars so as to ensure they minimise their time near each other on the track.
Setting a clear driver hierarchy in the team is not just about managing the drivers for Red Bull, they have such a technological and design advantage this season that they can also afford to manage the difference between one car and another, without prejudicing the teams overall performance.
It is interesting how since "Multi 21" the RB's have never been near each other on a track. I think this is intentional.
Mark is not as far behind Seb as you think. And certainly not as far behind as these recent performances suggest.
Hell, the two cars don't even sound the same anymore...
Oh the irony.It is my belief that RB have such an exceptional car, that they decided to manage the gap between their drivers in order to reduce the chances of any on track clashes after the "Multi 21" debacle. Sponsors hated that silly affair. RB realised they had a much better car than anyone else with a margin to spare, so they have engineered a difference between the cars so as to ensure they minimise their time near each other on the track.
Setting a clear driver hierarchy in the team is not just about managing the drivers for Red Bull, they have such a technological and design advantage this season that they can also afford to manage the difference between one car and another, without prejudicing the teams overall performance.
It is interesting how since "Multi 21" the RB's have never been near each other on a track. I think this is intentional.
Mark is not as far behind Seb as you think. And certainly not as far behind as these recent performances suggest.
Hell, the two cars don't even sound the same anymore...
In Malaysia Seb was on the better prime tyre and Webber having to manage his soft set. Seb was moaning how slow Webber was and was told to hold position...
If you look at the lap times Webber's pace wasn't good enough for 2 stopper today.
Webber is harder on his tyres. He is usually called in first and should benefit from the undercut.
e21Mark said:
Am I right in thinking that Webbers DRS failed hence he was unable to pass Grosjean at the earlier opportunity?
I read a comment from Mark saying that DRS is less effective late in the race when the fuel load is down because the car hits the rev limiter and can't go any faster. I don't think his DRS was broken, just not working as intended because of the rev limiter. Vettel's worked ok though (even though he accidently disengaged it part way through the overtake)...ash73 said:
mollytherocker said:
They have produced what was requested.
I don't think that's correct, we've had dangerous failures resulting in construction changes midway through the season which tipped the balance of the WDC; and tyres of the same compound are inconsistent from set to set.http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24420547
Andrew Benson said:
People aren't stupid. It has taken a while, but everyone watching is now well aware of what F1 has become, and many don't like it.
If the tyres were more durable, there might be fewer pit stops. But at least then people would be watching what F1 is meant to be - the best racing drivers pushing to the limit in the fastest and most demanding cars in the world.
Or, as Alonso put it, "at least you could drive".
If the tyres were more durable, there might be fewer pit stops. But at least then people would be watching what F1 is meant to be - the best racing drivers pushing to the limit in the fastest and most demanding cars in the world.
Or, as Alonso put it, "at least you could drive".
Gaz. said:
Because any right thinking armchair fan would have hired him years ago and Mclaren don't do the obvious, no, they take every opportunity to shoot themselves in both feet. I find them an infuriating team to watch with some of their maddening decisions.
In this I agree. I think his talent would overcome a few KG fuel load difference. The way he has managed against Alonso has been remarkable and a real credit, on a full season I can't see it being a massive penalty.ash73 said:
and tyres of the same compound are inconsistent from set to set.
Where has that come from, it isn't something I have heard anyone who has any connection with the tyres to have said.Pirelli wanted to make more substantial changes to the tyres this year but were not allowed to do so by the FIA. As they don't have a contract yet for next year and have yet to be given the chance to properly test the tyres they want to produce it could be good for their commercial interests to walk away. That would really give Bernie something to have to negotiate.
RYH64E said:
e21Mark said:
Am I right in thinking that Webbers DRS failed hence he was unable to pass Grosjean at the earlier opportunity?
I read a comment from Mark saying that DRS is less effective late in the race when the fuel load is down because the car hits the rev limiter and can't go any faster. I don't think his DRS was broken, just not working as intended because of the rev limiter. Vettel's worked ok though (even though he accidently disengaged it part way through the overtake)...Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff