Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?
Discussion
Peacockantony said:
Don't confuse your extremist view containing overly emotive language such as "soft porn" and "fragile egos" as being enlightened. You can be a misogynist that holds women to lower standards if you wish, but don't try to act as if you're somehow superior for doing it. You're the one not treating women equally by doing it.
No one here feels threatened, outraged or overshadowed as you claimed, we have just expressed an honest opinion about drivers that really are average at best. You're upset because they aren't blowing smoke up crap drivers' backsides just because they're women like you clearly do.
The simple fact is if any of the W Series drivers were men, they would have long since had to give up racing because they would have ran out of opportunities due to lack of ability. They would be regarded as crap drivers not worthy of progressing further. Jamie is indeed part of the very big 'not good enough for F1' club, yet a staggering amount of people continue to delude themselves that she is despite the overwhelming proof that she isn't. You only have to look at the number of people that claim she "deserves to be in F3/F2/F1" despite her beyond crap results in FREC.
Crikey , raw nerve is it ? No one here feels threatened, outraged or overshadowed as you claimed, we have just expressed an honest opinion about drivers that really are average at best. You're upset because they aren't blowing smoke up crap drivers' backsides just because they're women like you clearly do.
The simple fact is if any of the W Series drivers were men, they would have long since had to give up racing because they would have ran out of opportunities due to lack of ability. They would be regarded as crap drivers not worthy of progressing further. Jamie is indeed part of the very big 'not good enough for F1' club, yet a staggering amount of people continue to delude themselves that she is despite the overwhelming proof that she isn't. You only have to look at the number of people that claim she "deserves to be in F3/F2/F1" despite her beyond crap results in FREC.
PhilAsia said:
The Super Licence has made rolling road blocks less frequent, and yes, those that do get through are of a better standard but, like you have noted, the likes of Piastri being sidelined for someone less deserving still dilutes the sport and F1 suffers as a result.
Difficult to overcome because of the way the sport is set up and those that control it.
Ironically, and to come back around to the subject of this thread, it could be argued that the super licence system makes it more difficult for the first woman to get into F1. Difficult to overcome because of the way the sport is set up and those that control it.
It’s possible that a sufficiently-motivated sponsor might have taken the chance on “the first female F1 driver of the modern era”, even if she were off the pace, but instead we have seen the last two ladies to try and get to the top series (Sophia and Tatiana) end up endurance racing.
Have we heard what Jamie and Alice are doing this year yet? There are still half a dozen slots available in FIA F3, but we are only four weeks from the first race in Bahrain (supporting the F1 race).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIA_Formula_3...
Sandpit Steve said:
Ironically, and to come back around to the subject of this thread, it could be argued that the super licence system makes it more difficult for the first woman to get into F1.
It’s possible that a sufficiently-motivated sponsor might have taken the chance on “the first female F1 driver of the modern era”, even if she were off the pace, but instead we have seen the last two ladies to try and get to the top series (Sophia and Tatiana) end up endurance racing.
Have we heard what Jamie and Alice are doing this year yet? There are still half a dozen slots available in FIA F3, but we are only four weeks from the first race in Bahrain (supporting the F1 race).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIA_Formula_3...
But almost all single seater racers end up endurance racing, or FE. Most of them didn't have that last percentage point of talent that made them stand out. Some of them just fell plain unlucky and when the music stopped there weren't any chairs left (thinking Sam Bird, Callum Illot, now Oscar Piastri).It’s possible that a sufficiently-motivated sponsor might have taken the chance on “the first female F1 driver of the modern era”, even if she were off the pace, but instead we have seen the last two ladies to try and get to the top series (Sophia and Tatiana) end up endurance racing.
Have we heard what Jamie and Alice are doing this year yet? There are still half a dozen slots available in FIA F3, but we are only four weeks from the first race in Bahrain (supporting the F1 race).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIA_Formula_3...
There's usually one or two per season that deserve a shot in a backmarker F1 team but end up in Indycar, Japanese formulae, Le Mans etc.
Is there something about Sophia and Tatiana that suggests they were among the very best but the cards didn't fall right for them? Because as I remember their single seater careers, they were ok in the lower formulas but not consistently competing at the front, and if you don't do that you won't progress without a very rich father - because no one else will back you, even if you're female. Or Red Bull would have done it already.
FNG said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Ironically, and to come back around to the subject of this thread, it could be argued that the super licence system makes it more difficult for the first woman to get into F1.
It’s possible that a sufficiently-motivated sponsor might have taken the chance on “the first female F1 driver of the modern era”, even if she were off the pace, but instead we have seen the last two ladies to try and get to the top series (Sophia and Tatiana) end up endurance racing.
Have we heard what Jamie and Alice are doing this year yet? There are still half a dozen slots available in FIA F3, but we are only four weeks from the first race in Bahrain (supporting the F1 race).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIA_Formula_3...
But almost all single seater racers end up endurance racing, or FE. Most of them didn't have that last percentage point of talent that made them stand out. Some of them just fell plain unlucky and when the music stopped there weren't any chairs left (thinking Sam Bird, Callum Illot, now Oscar Piastri).It’s possible that a sufficiently-motivated sponsor might have taken the chance on “the first female F1 driver of the modern era”, even if she were off the pace, but instead we have seen the last two ladies to try and get to the top series (Sophia and Tatiana) end up endurance racing.
Have we heard what Jamie and Alice are doing this year yet? There are still half a dozen slots available in FIA F3, but we are only four weeks from the first race in Bahrain (supporting the F1 race).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIA_Formula_3...
There's usually one or two per season that deserve a shot in a backmarker F1 team but end up in Indycar, Japanese formulae, Le Mans etc.
Is there something about Sophia and Tatiana that suggests they were among the very best but the cards didn't fall right for them? Because as I remember their single seater careers, they were ok in the lower formulas but not consistently competing at the front, and if you don't do that you won't progress without a very rich father - because no one else will back you, even if you're female. Or Red Bull would have done it already.
Tatiana - one win each in Radicals, Florida Winter Series (nope, me neither) and MRF Challenge. Then nothing.
It's fair to say neither have competed at the front at all.
On Superlicence requirements, I believe you can do the same series multiple times, so three strong seasons in W Series would be enough. Given the rules allowing for Covid, it's currently 3 of the last 4 seasons. Chadwick could theoretically go back to W Series, win it again, and bam, she has a Superlicence. I wouldn't say it's especially hard for women to get a Superlicence now - given the level of W Series it's much easier than it is for men.
spikyone said:
Sophia - a couple of Ginetta Junior wins, then nothing, and only a single point in Euro F3.
Tatiana - one win each in Radicals, Florida Winter Series (nope, me neither) and MRF Challenge. Then nothing.
It's fair to say neither have competed at the front at all.
On Superlicence requirements, I believe you can do the same series multiple times, so three strong seasons in W Series would be enough. Given the rules allowing for Covid, it's currently 3 of the last 4 seasons. Chadwick could theoretically go back to W Series, win it again, and bam, she has a Superlicence. I wouldn't say it's especially hard for women to get a Superlicence now - given the level of W Series it's much easier than it is for men.
No, they changed the W-series rules so if you go back to it you lose the superlicence points. Jamie only has the points from 2 seasons because that rule wasn't around during her first season.Tatiana - one win each in Radicals, Florida Winter Series (nope, me neither) and MRF Challenge. Then nothing.
It's fair to say neither have competed at the front at all.
On Superlicence requirements, I believe you can do the same series multiple times, so three strong seasons in W Series would be enough. Given the rules allowing for Covid, it's currently 3 of the last 4 seasons. Chadwick could theoretically go back to W Series, win it again, and bam, she has a Superlicence. I wouldn't say it's especially hard for women to get a Superlicence now - given the level of W Series it's much easier than it is for men.
Sandpit Steve said:
Have we heard what Jamie and Alice are doing this year yet? There are still half a dozen slots available in FIA F3, but we are only four weeks from the first race in Bahrain (supporting the F1 race).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIA_Formula_3...
They both tested LMP2 cars at the end of last season, so I'd have thought that's the direction that they will go in now. Might work quite nicely if they are graded as "bronze" drivers and would be good publicity for the team involved. I'd be very surprised if they moved to another single seater series now (Jamie has previously stated that she didn't do enough to justify a FIA F3 drive). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIA_Formula_3...
trackdemon said:
Sandpit Steve said:
It’s possible that a sufficiently-motivated sponsor might have taken the chance on “the first female F1 driver of the modern era”, even if she were off the pace
So, 'positive' discrimination? Why would you back someone off the pace? Why not back me then? 
My point was that, without the superlicence rules, we used to have a whole pile of drivers running around the back of the F1 race several seconds a lap down. If there was a market for that, then maybe some sponsor would have taken a chance on one of the lady drivers.
It’s all hypothetical though, we do have a superlicence system and everyone has to qualify for it. Which is IMHO a much better system, even though Piastri missed out this year.
carl_w said:
No, they changed the W-series rules so if you go back to it you lose the superlicence points. Jamie only has the points from 2 seasons because that rule wasn't around during her first season.
Thanks, I wasn't aware they'd done that. It makes sense to limit it, to make sure that the best drivers are following the traditional pyramid and competing directly against other F1 hopefuls.I am convinced that there will be in the very near future a woman who dominates karting, junior formulae and gets into F1, it has happened in a lot of very low level motorsport I have watched, so there i no doubt it can happen here. I have seen numerous girls dominate junior stock car racing, and then move fairly successfully into adult stuff, but the issue always is there, motivation, because of adulthood, dating, boys, social life, men are not so easily distracted, and who can blame young girls for this, they probably think it is stupid to try and chase a dream rather than enjoy themselves.
But, eventually there will be a lass who is motivated and good enough, she will need help, money, sponsorship and if she is good enough she will get it.
So far other than a few exceptions, there have been very few women good enough to maintain a long career in racing at the very top, Mouton, Legge, Nielsen, Ana Carasco, Isolde Holderied, and a few others, and only really Mouton and Legge have done it with success for a long time.
But, eventually there will be a lass who is motivated and good enough, she will need help, money, sponsorship and if she is good enough she will get it.
So far other than a few exceptions, there have been very few women good enough to maintain a long career in racing at the very top, Mouton, Legge, Nielsen, Ana Carasco, Isolde Holderied, and a few others, and only really Mouton and Legge have done it with success for a long time.
LukeBrown66 said:
I am convinced that there will be in the very near future a woman who dominates karting, junior formulae and gets into F1, it has happened in a lot of very low level motorsport I have watched, so there i no doubt it can happen here. I have seen numerous girls dominate junior stock car racing, and then move fairly successfully into adult stuff, but the issue always is there, motivation, because of adulthood, dating, boys, social life, men are not so easily distracted, and who can blame young girls for this, they probably think it is stupid to try and chase a dream rather than enjoy themselves.
But, eventually there will be a lass who is motivated and good enough, she will need help, money, sponsorship and if she is good enough she will get it.
So far other than a few exceptions, there have been very few women good enough to maintain a long career in racing at the very top, Mouton, Legge, Nielsen, Ana Carasco, Isolde Holderied, and a few others, and only really Mouton and Legge have done it with success for a long time.
Most recent domination I can think of was Abby Pulling. super 1 TKM 2nd 1st 1st iirc . but the fields have been much weaker than previous years But, eventually there will be a lass who is motivated and good enough, she will need help, money, sponsorship and if she is good enough she will get it.
So far other than a few exceptions, there have been very few women good enough to maintain a long career in racing at the very top, Mouton, Legge, Nielsen, Ana Carasco, Isolde Holderied, and a few others, and only really Mouton and Legge have done it with success for a long time.
I would say that was little bit wide of the mark, the team of Mouton Stig and Hannu was well balanced, but Audi always wanted Rohrl, he came into the team and it unsettled the whole thing, Mouton was obviously marginalised as she was not as good as Mikkola or Blomqvist so she was pushed out to Britain and odd events. but she was not let go until 1985.
Her career with Fiat was a factory car, not sure about Alpine, private initially but factory later maybe, she hated the 131, but she did well in both, yes marketing was a thing but not after she nearly won the title later on, that was all about talent.
Her career with Fiat was a factory car, not sure about Alpine, private initially but factory later maybe, she hated the 131, but she did well in both, yes marketing was a thing but not after she nearly won the title later on, that was all about talent.
LukeBrown66 said:
I would say that was little bit wide of the mark, the team of Mouton Stig and Hannu was well balanced, but Audi always wanted Rohrl, he came into the team and it unsettled the whole thing, Mouton was obviously marginalised as she was not as good as Mikkola or Blomqvist so she was pushed out to Britain and odd events. but she was not let go until 1985.
Her career with Fiat was a factory car, not sure about Alpine, private initially but factory later maybe, she hated the 131, but she did well in both, yes marketing was a thing but not after she nearly won the title later on, that was all about talent.
In fairness she came second in a three horse race in 1982, as hardly anyone ran a full season. Mouton, Mikkola, and Rohrl entered all but one rally, everyone else was very much part time. Her team mate Mikkola had a lot of retirements but four of his 5 finishes were 1st or 2nd. She lost the title to Rohrl, who only had 2WD against her Quattro, which dominated the rallies it finished. And she didn't win a single event after '82 whilst her team mates took the next two titles. Sure, she came 2nd in '82, but there's context to it: she had the best car and an unlucky team-mate.Her career with Fiat was a factory car, not sure about Alpine, private initially but factory later maybe, she hated the 131, but she did well in both, yes marketing was a thing but not after she nearly won the title later on, that was all about talent.
But she did wield a fairly tricky car and managed to do well, so really putting down the finest female driver ever to grace the sport and any motorsport really is a little disrespectful at best.
I agree on what you say, but she still had to drive the thing, it was not an easy car, and she pushed like hell while trying to make the damn thing finish, you can only beat what is there, and she did.
I agree on what you say, but she still had to drive the thing, it was not an easy car, and she pushed like hell while trying to make the damn thing finish, you can only beat what is there, and she did.
Back to W Series for Jamie: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single...
Still if she keeps winning $0.5m a year that's a tidy income
Still if she keeps winning $0.5m a year that's a tidy income
I wonder if they will change the rules after this season to limit the number of seasons a dominant driver can do if she wins it again. It kinda doesn't make any sense to allow one driver to keep coming back and winning it.
Fair play to her though, clearly she isn't giving up on the single seater route. I assume an Extreme E seat would have been no problem for her or indeed something in GT endurance racing. Ultimately I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up in Formula E.
Fair play to her though, clearly she isn't giving up on the single seater route. I assume an Extreme E seat would have been no problem for her or indeed something in GT endurance racing. Ultimately I wouldn't be surprised if she ends up in Formula E.
LukeBrown66 said:
But she did wield a fairly tricky car and managed to do well, so really putting down the finest female driver ever to grace the sport and any motorsport really is a little disrespectful at best.
I agree on what you say, but she still had to drive the thing, it was not an easy car, and she pushed like hell while trying to make the damn thing finish, you can only beat what is there, and she did.
I don't think it's disrespectful to highlight that finishing second out of three is not particularly significant. Especially when the guy who finished third struggled with reliability and she had a sizeable car advantage over the guy that beat her. The Audi may have been tricky but when it finished it generally won. In '83 she was well off the pace of her teammates and ended up 5th with more drivers contesting the majority of rallies.I agree on what you say, but she still had to drive the thing, it was not an easy car, and she pushed like hell while trying to make the damn thing finish, you can only beat what is there, and she did.
Is she the fastest woman ever to compete? Maybe. Was she on the same level as her male peers? Absolutely not.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff