Max Verstappen
Discussion
520TORQUES said:
deadslow said:
Hamilton took no risk by leaving McLaren - they were on the road to oblivion, from which they are only now emerging. If he were winning WDCs at Macca, he would have stayed. He rolled the dice, and it came up double six.
Most commentators thought he was nuts joining Mercedes. anonymous_user said:
because it offsets the often touted 'team built around a driver/ driver preferences'
Does it?Ferrari recruited and built there team around Schumacher, the brains from Benetton also jumped ship.
Like most things, it depends.
Most performance always comes from the engineers.
deadslow said:
520TORQUES said:
deadslow said:
Hamilton took no risk by leaving McLaren - they were on the road to oblivion, from which they are only now emerging. If he were winning WDCs at Macca, he would have stayed. He rolled the dice, and it came up double six.
Most commentators thought he was nuts joining Mercedes. deadslow said:
Muzzer79 said:
.......... snip.
Whilst he had a great many faults, it's one thing that I respected Schumacher a lot for - he took the risk to go to Ferrari and build a new legacy there, just like Hamilton did by leaving McLaren and a great many before them.
Hamilton took no risk by leaving McLaren - they were on the road to oblivion, from which they are only now emerging. If he were winning WDCs at Macca, he would have stayed. He rolled the dice, and it came up double six. Whilst he had a great many faults, it's one thing that I respected Schumacher a lot for - he took the risk to go to Ferrari and build a new legacy there, just like Hamilton did by leaving McLaren and a great many before them.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12479/8166576/je...
There were others who thought the same.
It’s easy to say there was no risk, knowing now how things played out at Mclaren. No one knew at the time believed Mercedes would deliver. Clearly Brawn and Lauda were convincing enough for Lewis sign.
HighwayStar said:
deadslow said:
Muzzer79 said:
.......... snip.
Whilst he had a great many faults, it's one thing that I respected Schumacher a lot for - he took the risk to go to Ferrari and build a new legacy there, just like Hamilton did by leaving McLaren and a great many before them.
Hamilton took no risk by leaving McLaren - they were on the road to oblivion, from which they are only now emerging. If he were winning WDCs at Macca, he would have stayed. He rolled the dice, and it came up double six. Whilst he had a great many faults, it's one thing that I respected Schumacher a lot for - he took the risk to go to Ferrari and build a new legacy there, just like Hamilton did by leaving McLaren and a great many before them.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12479/8166576/je...
There were others who thought the same.
It’s easy to say there was no risk, knowing now how things played out at Mclaren. No one knew at the time believed Mercedes would deliver. Clearly Brawn and Lauda were convincing enough for Lewis sign.
deadslow said:
520TORQUES said:
deadslow said:
Hamilton took no risk by leaving McLaren - they were on the road to oblivion, from which they are only now emerging. If he were winning WDCs at Macca, he would have stayed. He rolled the dice, and it came up double six.
Most commentators thought he was nuts joining Mercedes. MustangGT said:
deadslow said:
520TORQUES said:
deadslow said:
Hamilton took no risk by leaving McLaren - they were on the road to oblivion, from which they are only now emerging. If he were winning WDCs at Macca, he would have stayed. He rolled the dice, and it came up double six.
Most commentators thought he was nuts joining Mercedes. He jumped ship and landed on Treasure Island.
We've got a lot to thank him for. If he hadn't left McLaren, Rosberg would be heading for the GOAT.
deadslow said:
paulguitar said:
Yeah, because it's precisely that simple.
certainly seems to be when it's Max 'hoovering up' the victories, according to some Either way, 'goat' talk is a bit silly, how does one compare Fangio with Hamilton or Clark with Senna? Doesn't make sense, really.
deadslow said:
MustangGT said:
deadslow said:
520TORQUES said:
deadslow said:
Hamilton took no risk by leaving McLaren - they were on the road to oblivion, from which they are only now emerging. If he were winning WDCs at Macca, he would have stayed. He rolled the dice, and it came up double six.
Most commentators thought he was nuts joining Mercedes. He jumped ship and landed on Treasure Island.
We've got a lot to thank him for. If he hadn't left McLaren, Rosberg would be heading for the GOAT.McLaren had the history and facilities to continue to succeed, so leaving there for a team that was failing to deliver at the time was risky.
Having a major OEM as a team had also proven in recent times to be a disaster.
If he really wanted to stay at McLaren, Ron would have given him the contract terms he was asking for now he was an established world champion talent, he did previously with Senna and Prost.
So all in all, i don't see how you can say there wasn't a risk it wouldn't be the right move. You can't even use the world championship as Brawn GP as an indication because the concept of that car was a Super Aguri design that never got built due to the team folding. Brawn also proved they couldn't develop a car over a season.
There were many risks, especially when OEM's were not fully committed to F1 and had shown complete reversal of policies when the board decided they couldn't afford F1 if the climate changed.
It paid of, but it most certainly was a risk and why most pundits suggested it was a mistake.
HustleRussell said:
Vettel has shown how you can win several WDCs and still get overlooked in the 'all time great' stakes.
Rightly or wrongly. Also he did win Toro Rosso's only.
Which titles you win, under which circumstances, and what you do / did before and after... it all adds up.
Yeah all the circumstances can be considered in how good a job a driver has done, still don't understand how just doing it in a different team is a plus point.Rightly or wrongly. Also he did win Toro Rosso's only.
Which titles you win, under which circumstances, and what you do / did before and after... it all adds up.
Muzzer79 said:
It shows adaptability and longevity.
A fast car is a fast car, but they are not all the same. It's no coincidence that the very best won multiply with multiple teams.
Vettel is, again, a good example. He won 4 titles and nearly 40 races with Red Bull but couldn't do it elsewhere. He couldn't adapt to a different style - not only of car but, crucially, of regulations.
If Max were to, for example, change teams in 2028 (or earlier) and win titles in the new regulations I'd have a lot more respect for his achievements than if he just stayed at Red Bull relying on Adrian Newey's genius....
Whilst he had a great many faults, it's one thing that I respected Schumacher a lot for - he took the risk to go to Ferrari and build a new legacy there, just like Hamilton did by leaving McLaren and a great many before them.
Feel that is a bit unfair on Seb. He wasn't terrible in the hybrid era, 2 championship runner up spots, beating one of the all conquering Mercs twice with plenty of race wins along the way. Its not like it changed to the hybrid era and he suddenly did a Stroll.A fast car is a fast car, but they are not all the same. It's no coincidence that the very best won multiply with multiple teams.
Vettel is, again, a good example. He won 4 titles and nearly 40 races with Red Bull but couldn't do it elsewhere. He couldn't adapt to a different style - not only of car but, crucially, of regulations.
If Max were to, for example, change teams in 2028 (or earlier) and win titles in the new regulations I'd have a lot more respect for his achievements than if he just stayed at Red Bull relying on Adrian Newey's genius....
Whilst he had a great many faults, it's one thing that I respected Schumacher a lot for - he took the risk to go to Ferrari and build a new legacy there, just like Hamilton did by leaving McLaren and a great many before them.
I still don't get the need to do multiple teams. If Max stays at RB forever in a winning car it shows he is sensible and doing best as a driver, why would he leave to a new team that is potentially not as good?
If he carries on winning at RB if Newey retires would that elevate Max then?
anonymous_user said:
because it offsets the often touted 'team built around a driver/ driver preferences'
It doesn't as they would probably just go to the new team and build that around themdeadslow said:
No risk. Commentators did not have Hamilton's knowledge of McLaren. Jenson thought he was mad, yes, because no-one knew if Merc could deliver (including Hamilton, who decided to roll the dice) but Hamilton and Jenon both probably knew McLaren would not deliver in the forseeable. Only my own opinion, but I think Hamilton wanted away from McLaren/Dennis due to their restrictive managerial style, which conflicted with Hamilton's emerging varied interests.
He jumped ship and landed on Treasure Island. We've got a lot to thank him for. If he hadn't left McLaren, Rosberg would be heading for the GOAT.
Some of what you say has a lot of merit, certainly about Lewis wanting to leave because of Ron's managerial style, McLaren believe all trophies belong to them and also have clauses in place about requirements outside the F1 weekends. MB are much happier to give Lewis freedom to do what he wants.He jumped ship and landed on Treasure Island.
We've got a lot to thank him for. If he hadn't left McLaren, Rosberg would be heading for the GOAT.The bit about 'no risk' is just laughable. Jumping from a known entity to an unknown entity with little history is always going to be a risk. 2012 McLaren finished 3rd, MB 5th so hardly a no risk move.
deadslow said:
MustangGT said:
deadslow said:
520TORQUES said:
deadslow said:
Hamilton took no risk by leaving McLaren - they were on the road to oblivion, from which they are only now emerging. If he were winning WDCs at Macca, he would have stayed. He rolled the dice, and it came up double six.
Most commentators thought he was nuts joining Mercedes. He jumped ship and landed on Treasure Island.
We've got a lot to thank him for. If he hadn't left McLaren, Rosberg would be heading for the GOAT.Jenson thought Hamilton was mad to leave McLaren - publicly said so. However you think both he and Hamilton probably knew that McLaren would not deliver in the forseeable. So, Jenson thought Hamilton was mad to leave a team.......that he knew wasn't going to win?
There's no doubting that Lewis came up trumps with his move to Mercedes. But let's not be childish and say there was no risk. There was a huge risk - he, as a driver, would have only had the word of Lauda and Brawn that it was going to be different and going to work.
Plenty of Team bosses have enticed drivers on the promise that it was going to be different and work - few have been proved right. Lauda was even on of those team bosses who was wrong when he was at Ferrari and Jaguar, so let's not pretend he was the differentiator.
Making a risky move to a team that worked out well is not unique. Schumacher did it. Others have too.
It's funny how people don't decry Schumacher's move to Ferrari as "lucky" on such trivialities that he bought pizzas for the test team at Fiorano, yet Hamilton apparently walked into an oven-ready world-beater..........
Muzzer79 said:
deadslow said:
MustangGT said:
deadslow said:
520TORQUES said:
deadslow said:
Hamilton took no risk by leaving McLaren - they were on the road to oblivion, from which they are only now emerging. If he were winning WDCs at Macca, he would have stayed. He rolled the dice, and it came up double six.
Most commentators thought he was nuts joining Mercedes. He jumped ship and landed on Treasure Island.
We've got a lot to thank him for. If he hadn't left McLaren, Rosberg would be heading for the GOAT.Jenson thought Hamilton was mad to leave McLaren - publicly said so. However you think both he and Hamilton probably knew that McLaren would not deliver in the forseeable. So, Jenson thought Hamilton was mad to leave a team.......that he knew wasn't going to win?
There's no doubting that Lewis came up trumps with his move to Mercedes. But let's not be childish and say there was no risk. There was a huge risk - he, as a driver, would have only had the word of Lauda and Brawn that it was going to be different and going to work.
Plenty of Team bosses have enticed drivers on the promise that it was going to be different and work - few have been proved right. Lauda was even on of those team bosses who was wrong when he was at Ferrari and Jaguar, so let's not pretend he was the differentiator.
Making a risky move to a team that worked out well is not unique. Schumacher did it. Others have too.
It's funny how people don't decry Schumacher's move to Ferrari as "lucky" on such trivialities that he bought pizzas for the test team at Fiorano, yet Hamilton apparently walked into an oven-ready world-beater..........
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