Max Verstappen
Discussion
A44RON said:
Muzzer79 said:
I know you're well known as being not-exactly-a-Lewis-fan but.......come on.
He's risking the same as anyone else who moves from a winning team to a less-winning team.
He's risking signing a 3 year deal and the car is a dog.
In 3 years' time, maybe RB or Ferrari think he's yesterday's news? Maybe they think he was a flash in the pan?
It's hard to show how good you are in a car that doesn't work. It was by no means a given that the Mercedes would work.
If you're truly objective, it's obvious that moving teams was a risk at the time. Everyone thought he was mad. No-one could have predicted that the car that won the last race of 2012 (McLaren) would be nowhere from 2013 onwards.....
No, they didn't. Martin Brundle was very outspoken at the time saying it "could be a shrewd move going to the works team" etc. After all, they had the genius Ross Brawn spearheading the upward trajectory, it was one of (if not the most) well-resourced $$$$ teams at the time, a huge Factory Works team no less... and they had a very generous pool of ridiculously talented people. The 2012 Mercedes was already a proven race winner in the hands of Nico Rosberg and getting better & better. He's risking the same as anyone else who moves from a winning team to a less-winning team.
He's risking signing a 3 year deal and the car is a dog.
In 3 years' time, maybe RB or Ferrari think he's yesterday's news? Maybe they think he was a flash in the pan?
It's hard to show how good you are in a car that doesn't work. It was by no means a given that the Mercedes would work.
If you're truly objective, it's obvious that moving teams was a risk at the time. Everyone thought he was mad. No-one could have predicted that the car that won the last race of 2012 (McLaren) would be nowhere from 2013 onwards.....
In 2013 Mercedes had the second-best car on the grid. McLaren were losing huge sponsorship money and hadn't had sole works factory backing since 2009. The writing was on the wall.
A44RON said:
The 2012 Mercedes was already a proven race winner in the hands of Nico Rosberg and getting better & better.
The 2012 Mercedes won a race in China but only scored two other podiums that year - one each for Rosberg and Schumacher. Aside from those 3 rostrum appearances, it's best result was 5th.Hamilton allegedly made his decision around the 2012 Singapore GP, when his McLaren transmission broke whilst leading. Mercedes only scored one points finish in the six races after Singapore so I'm not sure how that translates as a car getting "better and better"
The McLaren MP4-27 won two of the last six races, plus six top five finishes.
Mercedes had potential, with Brawn and the backing of Mercedes but the point here isn't about potential, it's about risk. Deadslow claims there was none, but there irrefutably was.
It's interesting how people can rewrite history in their heads to support a story that they wish to be true. As we've seen here over the last couple of pages, it's possible to convince oneself of something that's directly contradicted by facts and evidence. I will discuss this with Mrs Guitar sometime, as it is interesting from a psychological perspective. (She's a psychology doc).
paulguitar said:
It's interesting how people can rewrite history in their heads to support a story that they wish to be true. As we've seen here over the last couple of pages, it's possible to convince oneself of something that's directly contradicted by facts and evidence. I will discuss this with Mrs Guitar sometime, as it is interesting from a psychological perspective. (She's a psychology doc).
It's common in court trial situations where eye witnesses are proven to not be telling the truth of what they witnessed, despite not deliberately doing so, because of the way the mind processes and stores memory.Eye witnesses are often the least reliable witnesses, this is becoming more recognised as cases go to appeal when more reliable evidence is found, such as video and forensic data.
paulguitar said:
It's interesting how people can rewrite history in their heads to support a story that they wish to be true. As we've seen here over the last couple of pages, it's possible to convince oneself of something that's directly contradicted by facts and evidence.
Tony Blair and Boris Johnson are masters of this.paulguitar said:
It's interesting how people can rewrite history in their heads to support a story that they wish to be true. As we've seen here over the last couple of pages, it's possible to convince oneself of something that's directly contradicted by facts and evidence. I will discuss this with Mrs Guitar sometime, as it is interesting from a psychological perspective. (She's a psychology doc).
520TORQUES said:
paulguitar said:
It's interesting how people can rewrite history in their heads to support a story that they wish to be true. As we've seen here over the last couple of pages, it's possible to convince oneself of something that's directly contradicted by facts and evidence. I will discuss this with Mrs Guitar sometime, as it is interesting from a psychological perspective. (She's a psychology doc).
It's common in court trial situations where eye witnesses are proven to not be telling the truth of what they witnessed, despite not deliberately doing so, because of the way the mind processes and stores memory.Eye witnesses are often the least reliable witnesses, this is becoming more recognised as cases go to appeal when more reliable evidence is found, such as video and forensic data.
You boys are spot on. I remember watching Silverston '21, when Max got punted off deliberately. Plain for all to see, but Lewis fans could not see it. I believe their brains could not process what was happening right in front of them because it contradicted their prefered narrative and ingrained bias. They were not lying; they were deluded.I discussed it with Mrs Deadslow and oh how we laughed
deadslow said:
You boys are spot on. I remember watching Silverston '21, when Max got punted off deliberately. Plain for all to see, but Lewis fans could not see it. I believe their brains could not process what was happening right in front of them because it contradicted their prefered narrative and ingrained bias. They were not lying; they were deluded.I discussed it with Mrs Deadslow and oh how we laughed
deadslow said:
520TORQUES said:
paulguitar said:
It's interesting how people can rewrite history in their heads to support a story that they wish to be true. As we've seen here over the last couple of pages, it's possible to convince oneself of something that's directly contradicted by facts and evidence. I will discuss this with Mrs Guitar sometime, as it is interesting from a psychological perspective. (She's a psychology doc).
It's common in court trial situations where eye witnesses are proven to not be telling the truth of what they witnessed, despite not deliberately doing so, because of the way the mind processes and stores memory.Eye witnesses are often the least reliable witnesses, this is becoming more recognised as cases go to appeal when more reliable evidence is found, such as video and forensic data.
You boys are spot on. I remember watching Silverston '21, when Max got punted off deliberately. Plain for all to see, but Lewis fans could not see it. I believe their brains could not process what was happening right in front of them because it contradicted their prefered narrative and ingrained bias. They were not lying; they were deluded.I discussed it with Mrs Deadslow and oh how we laughed
deadslow said:
You boys are spot on. I remember watching Silverston '21, when Max got punted off deliberately. Plain for all to see, but Lewis fans could not see it. I believe their brains could not process what was happening right in front of them because it contradicted their prefered narrative and ingrained bias. They were not lying; they were deluded.I discussed it with Mrs Deadslow and oh how we laughed
Utterly delusional.
deadslow said:
You boys are spot on. I remember watching Silverston '21, when Max got punted off deliberately. Plain for all to see, but Lewis fans could not see it. I believe their brains could not process what was happening right in front of them because it contradicted their prefered narrative and ingrained bias. They were not lying; they were deluded.I discussed it with Mrs Deadslow and oh how we laughed
Blib said:
deadslow said:
You boys are spot on. I remember watching Silverston '21, when Max got punted off deliberately. Plain for all to see, but Lewis fans could not see it. I believe their brains could not process what was happening right in front of them because it contradicted their prefered narrative and ingrained bias. They were not lying; they were deluded.I discussed it with Mrs Deadslow and oh how we laughed
paulguitar said:
Blib said:
deadslow said:
You boys are spot on. I remember watching Silverston '21, when Max got punted off deliberately. Plain for all to see, but Lewis fans could not see it. I believe their brains could not process what was happening right in front of them because it contradicted their prefered narrative and ingrained bias. They were not lying; they were deluded.I discussed it with Mrs Deadslow and oh how we laughed
We all know if it was the other way around with Lewis off into the barriers Deadslow and the like would saying he should’ve backed off, stupid to put is car there, racing incident, Hamilton fanboys moaning again. Max can do no wrong.
Muzzer79 said:
The 2012 Mercedes won a race in China but only scored two other podiums that year - one each for Rosberg and Schumacher. Aside from those 3 rostrum appearances, it's best result was 5th.
Hamilton allegedly made his decision around the 2012 Singapore GP, when his McLaren transmission broke whilst leading. Mercedes only scored one points finish in the six races after Singapore so I'm not sure how that translates as a car getting "better and better"
The McLaren MP4-27 won two of the last six races, plus six top five finishes.
Mercedes had potential, with Brawn and the backing of Mercedes but the point here isn't about potential, it's about risk. Deadslow claims there was none, but there irrefutably was.
The point here IS very much about potential though. After all, they were in prime position to capitalise on the 2014 hybrid era thanks to Ross Brawn's genius, their enormous budget, being a works factory team and having their vast pool of very very talented personnel already in place. People in here underestimate the groundwork and foundations that Ross Brawn laid from 2010 to 2013. Compare that to what McLaren-Mercedes were offering going forwards in terms of resources, sponsorship, customer engines, design direction....Hamilton allegedly made his decision around the 2012 Singapore GP, when his McLaren transmission broke whilst leading. Mercedes only scored one points finish in the six races after Singapore so I'm not sure how that translates as a car getting "better and better"
The McLaren MP4-27 won two of the last six races, plus six top five finishes.
Mercedes had potential, with Brawn and the backing of Mercedes but the point here isn't about potential, it's about risk. Deadslow claims there was none, but there irrefutably was.
PhilAsia said:
DOCG said:
Why on Earth is this part of the forum so nasty? Someone prefer Max over Lewis so another user implies their wife is a sock puppet. Jesus.
Oh, hello again DOCG, or should it be Mr. DOCG?Apart from castigating PH forum users for being familiar with drivers' names (so why you used Max and Lewis was very concerning/controversial ), last time out I was "authoritarian" for my support of Piquet's fine for his racist comments.
If the sock puppet "implied" it was their wife, that is your interpretation. I found it to be a mildly amusing picture and I am sure deadslow thought so too. He dishes it out more than most.
EDIT: your post - ".....In this forum it is often Max, Lewis, George, etc. It sounds as if they are pretending to know these drivers personally and are on a first name basis with them. I think it is very strange to refer to strangers or public figures by their first names. Would you also refer to the Prime Minister or other public figures by their first names?...... Very strange you now have done a complete u-turn..!? BTW, it's Mr. Jesus...
Edited by PhilAsia on Sunday 5th November 05:32
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