Discussion
dr_gn said:
Found a load of old press packs and timing sheets from BGP’s of the ‘70’s and ‘80s:
This Renault one tells you everything from from the name of the catering manager to the wall thicknesses of the engine block.
And some practice time sheets - all the names are there...
WOW. That is so cool.This Renault one tells you everything from from the name of the catering manager to the wall thicknesses of the engine block.
And some practice time sheets - all the names are there...
Amazing condition as well.
Are they yours?
Eric Mc said:
And what does that ACTUALLY mean?
I think risk is an important part of the sport - indeed, ANY sport. After all, isn't there supposed to be an element of unpredictability about sporting endeavours.
However, not risk of death but risk of consequence - and I don't mean penalties by stewards.
Risk is important but when a F1 event is live, I very much doubt the modern era would want drivers being killed live on TV. I think risk is an important part of the sport - indeed, ANY sport. After all, isn't there supposed to be an element of unpredictability about sporting endeavours.
However, not risk of death but risk of consequence - and I don't mean penalties by stewards.
The Ratzenberger and Senna deaths were live on TV which was the first time I had been subjected to a death and understood it. I had watched Villeneuve being killed but I was too young to really know what that mean't.
But what shocked many people at the time was directly after Imola 94 the viewing figures increased.
This sounds sick but how many of us have driven past a bad car accident but for some reason we decide to look to see what is going on. It's like we have a built in system that enjoys watching these things even when we regret it afterwards.
I have more respect for past F1 stars who knew they could be killed yet continued to want to drive flat out. But the World has changed and if F1 had a few deaths in a year the sport would be put into question. Many people call for the TT to be banned after each year when bikers are being killed.
As Vaud has suggested having the drivers working harder without so much toys in the cars would be a great start. But also the circuits "which were ruined after Imola 94" could just be more challenging.
Take the Chinese GP from last weekend. In 2007 Hamilton ran wide with worn tyres and beached himself in the gravel entering the pits. Fast forward to 2018 and that gravel is all tarmac.
It's like the circuits are being made for babies and it's killing "excuse the wording" the soul of the sport.
Not F1 but the TT
Attendance was up again 6% in 2017 yet it is billed as the "deadly" race.
So clearly many fans want the ultimate race but know full well that the chances of a rider being killed is huge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6DFmWIGTLk
Attendance was up again 6% in 2017 yet it is billed as the "deadly" race.
So clearly many fans want the ultimate race but know full well that the chances of a rider being killed is huge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6DFmWIGTLk
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Risk is important but when a F1 event is live, I very much doubt the modern era would want drivers being killed live on TV.
The Ratzenberger and Senna deaths were live on TV which was the first time I had been subjected to a death and understood it. I had watched Villeneuve being killed but I was too young to really know what that mean't.
Take the Chinese GP from last weekend. In 2007 Hamilton ran wide with worn tyres and beached himself in the gravel entering the pits. Fast forward to 2018 and that gravel is all tarmac.
It's like the circuits are being made for babies and it's killing "excuse the wording" the soul of the sport.
On these two points:The Ratzenberger and Senna deaths were live on TV which was the first time I had been subjected to a death and understood it. I had watched Villeneuve being killed but I was too young to really know what that mean't.
Take the Chinese GP from last weekend. In 2007 Hamilton ran wide with worn tyres and beached himself in the gravel entering the pits. Fast forward to 2018 and that gravel is all tarmac.
It's like the circuits are being made for babies and it's killing "excuse the wording" the soul of the sport.
1) Brand "safety" is key for major corporations. Sponsors won't tolerate their assets being killed on global TV. A few might tolerate it on Youtube for extreme sports, but not mainstream viewing, so risk has to be contained in a high value sport.
Senna/Ratzenberger was the first F1 death that I saw, and I remember how much it shocked me (not least as I had met Senna in '91 at the British GP). Justin Wilson hit me hard as well - he was a really, really nice guy; I spent about 2 hours chatting with him at Goodwood in the early 2000s. I want to see my heros race and even crash as they are pushing the limits. But not die...
2) Agreed, but it is a function of multi use tracks. Tricky to balance. I agree that run off should have a bigger penalty... it's either gravel or some automatic system to penalise power, but the latter doesn't make for great TV.
A bit of fun.
Stefan Johansson, Rene Arnoux, and Phillippe Alliot ride Nelson Piquet's Williams after switching over from Alliot's Ligier once it runs out of fuel, just after the finish of the 1986 Mexican Grand Prix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cykz8Pg0Ds&t=...
Stefan Johansson, Rene Arnoux, and Phillippe Alliot ride Nelson Piquet's Williams after switching over from Alliot's Ligier once it runs out of fuel, just after the finish of the 1986 Mexican Grand Prix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cykz8Pg0Ds&t=...
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Not F1 but the TT
Attendance was up again 6% in 2017 yet it is billed as the "deadly" race.
So clearly many fans want the ultimate race but know full well that the chances of a rider being killed is huge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6DFmWIGTLk
And they all do it because they want to. That seems to be forgotten.Attendance was up again 6% in 2017 yet it is billed as the "deadly" race.
So clearly many fans want the ultimate race but know full well that the chances of a rider being killed is huge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6DFmWIGTLk
Vaud said:
On these two points:
1) Brand "safety" is key for major corporations. Sponsors won't tolerate their assets being killed on global TV. A few might tolerate it on Youtube for extreme sports, but not mainstream viewing, so risk has to be contained in a high value sport.
Senna/Ratzenberger was the first F1 death that I saw, and I remember how much it shocked me (not least as I had met Senna in '91 at the British GP). Justin Wilson hit me hard as well - he was a really, really nice guy; I spent about 2 hours chatting with him at Goodwood in the early 2000s. I want to see my heros race and even crash as they are pushing the limits. But not die...
2) Agreed, but it is a function of multi use tracks. Tricky to balance. I agree that run off should have a bigger penalty... it's either gravel or some automatic system to penalise power, but the latter doesn't make for great TV.
I think this is were the TT can get off with still having deaths. If that can even be said.1) Brand "safety" is key for major corporations. Sponsors won't tolerate their assets being killed on global TV. A few might tolerate it on Youtube for extreme sports, but not mainstream viewing, so risk has to be contained in a high value sport.
Senna/Ratzenberger was the first F1 death that I saw, and I remember how much it shocked me (not least as I had met Senna in '91 at the British GP). Justin Wilson hit me hard as well - he was a really, really nice guy; I spent about 2 hours chatting with him at Goodwood in the early 2000s. I want to see my heros race and even crash as they are pushing the limits. But not die...
2) Agreed, but it is a function of multi use tracks. Tricky to balance. I agree that run off should have a bigger penalty... it's either gravel or some automatic system to penalise power, but the latter doesn't make for great TV.
You do not see every race and if you do it is normally highlights. F1 is totally live so you have millions watching who will see everything unfold. As you say no company in this modern World would want to have their brand associated with death. It happens everyday but we still find it a very hard subject to speak about.
As you say drivers should be punished more for making mistakes but dying is not something anyone wants to see. I would prefer to see a driver stuck in a gravel trap unable to continue due to a mistake which has happened in the past.
Mistakes now are basically normal and you just carry on.
Finally corners which use to need real nerve and skill are now flat out. Take Eau Rouge or for that matter the whole of the Spa track. Many corners needed a lift and only the highly skilled or crazy would not lift as much.
Miss a gear and the guy behind has a run on you. Again this was the reason natural overtaking was some highly admired.
DRS etc. helps drivers pass but it really is artificial. We need cars which can follow each other and be able to show the drivers overtaking skills rather than a great system when you just glide on by.
Eric Mc said:
And they all do it because they want to. That seems to be forgotten.
Totally.F1 is dead in that aspect. It will only get worse. The past is the past. Too big a business.
I think the TT only gets away with it now due to the history.
Try and start something new and it would be banned as soon as something serious happened.
Take the Jim Clark rally in Scotland.
A few spectators stood in a very stupid place "many state they were moved but moved back" and were killed.
This was in 2014.
2016 it was going to be run but in a very limited way so no one bothered so it was cancelled.
They tried again in 2017 but were refused as they can't get a permit.
Formula 1 1965 Dutch Grand Prix Highlights (ESPN Classic)
Points to watch out for
1:00 Colin Chapman just about arrested
11:00 Jim Clark slide at the hairpin.
Great footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itfBTH6uMDQ
Points to watch out for
1:00 Colin Chapman just about arrested
11:00 Jim Clark slide at the hairpin.
Great footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itfBTH6uMDQ
It's interesting that historic F1 and other types of competition cars are still raced regularly today and not too many people die in them. Goodwood is a great example as to what could be done with a bit of thought.
Anyway, I don't really want to talk about current F1 here. There are plenty of threads for that. I'd prefer to talk about "F1 Past" - as long as it could also include other past forms of racing such as pre WDC F1 and Grand Prix racing in general.
Anyway, I don't really want to talk about current F1 here. There are plenty of threads for that. I'd prefer to talk about "F1 Past" - as long as it could also include other past forms of racing such as pre WDC F1 and Grand Prix racing in general.
F1 1978 Watkins Glen - Didier Pironi Onboard - Tyrrell 008
Mighty circuit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLkbqFiXwQY
Mighty circuit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLkbqFiXwQY
Watkins Glen 1979 - Gilles Villeneuve the wet weather master!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOre43k_ED0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOre43k_ED0
dr_gn said:
Found a load of old press packs and timing sheets from BGP’s of the ‘70’s and ‘80s:
This Renault one tells you everything from from the name of the catering manager to the wall thicknesses of the engine block.
And some practice time sheets - all the names are there...
The 1983 one was 5 days before I was born!! This Renault one tells you everything from from the name of the catering manager to the wall thicknesses of the engine block.
And some practice time sheets - all the names are there...
I used to watch F1 in the 80s with my dad and for some reasons, I don't look at the past F1 with rose tinted glasses like many over here. I just remember being so bored having to wait for the races to be finished so I could play with my dad.
just have a look at the Brazilian GP 86. If you can watch the full race without falling asleep, you are an anorak for bad Motorsport.
here is the little gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kipo0ZAgkwg
I have tried other races from the same season... so many boring races with hardly any overtaking!
good luck! lol
just have a look at the Brazilian GP 86. If you can watch the full race without falling asleep, you are an anorak for bad Motorsport.
here is the little gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kipo0ZAgkwg
I have tried other races from the same season... so many boring races with hardly any overtaking!
good luck! lol
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