Anyone here bored of F1 at the moment?
Discussion
Derek Smith said:
Someone earlier said that there are too many races and I can see his point. GPs used to be an event, something to plan the month around, but with 20 coming up it's a bit like following a football team: miss one match and it doesn't really matter.
Yep. Same sentiment exactly. But surely the jump from 16 to 20 (from my childhood) can't make that much difference? So in part, I put it down to getting old and each race is less memorable because compared to all the others you remember, it's less likely to be an outstanding moment in your life. Same as everything else. Everything is less exciting the older you get.I can see now why people are happy with mortality.
The motor racing world has changed dramatically from earlier eras. Prior to the 1980s, there were LOTS of Formula 1 races held each year - but only about half of them qualified as Grand Epreuves counting for the WDC.
So, in many ways, having 20 F1 races a year is not that big a deal. What IS a big deal is that all 20 of these races now count for the championship - which means that each and every race is a maximum effort by every team. When some races counted and others didn't, teams could skip races entirely or make a reduced contribution to the non-championship races if they wanted to - which allowed them a bit of a break.
The other change is that travel to venues is now a lot simpler (better roads, aeroplanes rather than ships etc) - which makes it SEEM that the effort to get to venues should be simpler too. But with teams now each bringing a small motorsport village with them to each race, the actual planning and logistics of getting to each venue is immense. It's not a question of loading two cars into a converted horsebox any more.
So, in many ways, having 20 F1 races a year is not that big a deal. What IS a big deal is that all 20 of these races now count for the championship - which means that each and every race is a maximum effort by every team. When some races counted and others didn't, teams could skip races entirely or make a reduced contribution to the non-championship races if they wanted to - which allowed them a bit of a break.
The other change is that travel to venues is now a lot simpler (better roads, aeroplanes rather than ships etc) - which makes it SEEM that the effort to get to venues should be simpler too. But with teams now each bringing a small motorsport village with them to each race, the actual planning and logistics of getting to each venue is immense. It's not a question of loading two cars into a converted horsebox any more.
For me the essence of racing has been removed from F1 and replaced with falseness. DRS, intentionally poor tyres, its not racing its just a cheap bolt on to try and make something happen. There are still some great F1 drivers with ability to go wheel to wheel but they're abilities are underused as they have to preserve the tyre life.
I used to love F1 but its a shadow of what it used to be. I hope next years rule changes bring back the spirit of the sport but I fear it is lost.
I used to love F1 but its a shadow of what it used to be. I hope next years rule changes bring back the spirit of the sport but I fear it is lost.
Most of the tension in earlier eras was because the cars were frail, unreliable and not very safe. The same goes for the tyres and the overall competency of the circuits owners, the race organisers and the teams themselves. It was called "character" and gave automatic unpredictability.
Since the 1980s it has become, slick, professional, BIG and very, very well organised. The drivers are (generally) truly professional, the teams know EXACTLY what they are doing. The technology is VERY well understood and there are very few mechanical or aerodynamic unknowns left to be discovered. The organisation of the events (normally) run like clockwork and the whole thing is packaged as a TV event that must slot into a fixed broadcast window.
When something becomes as "formulaic" as Formula 1 is today, it is very difficult to have something that is dramatic or tension filled. The most dramatic grands prix are when things DON'T go the way organisers or teams expected (and no - I don't mean invasions by Greenpeace).
Since the 1980s it has become, slick, professional, BIG and very, very well organised. The drivers are (generally) truly professional, the teams know EXACTLY what they are doing. The technology is VERY well understood and there are very few mechanical or aerodynamic unknowns left to be discovered. The organisation of the events (normally) run like clockwork and the whole thing is packaged as a TV event that must slot into a fixed broadcast window.
When something becomes as "formulaic" as Formula 1 is today, it is very difficult to have something that is dramatic or tension filled. The most dramatic grands prix are when things DON'T go the way organisers or teams expected (and no - I don't mean invasions by Greenpeace).
F1 is the only sport I follow and the only thing on tv that I make a conscious effort to watch live, but... I've fallen asleep during some races this season and last, don't bother watching qualifying or the race build up (not even the grid walk), and sometimes find myself doing other things mid race whereas before I've been glued to the screen, with live timing on my laptop as well.
I don't have a problem with Red Bull or Vettel dominating any more than I had a problem with Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Ferrari or McLaren in their heyday. If I had to say why I've lost a bit of interest I'd say it's because everything is so similar, there's hardly any room for innovation within the regulations and whenever a team comes up with something new it's banned. The engines are fixed in performance and hardly ever break, aero is so heavily controlled that there's very little difference between the cars, drivers never miss a gear because it's all electronic, so most of the overtakes are artificial via DRS/KERS. And I don't like the deliberately fragile tyres.
I'd like to see the regulations relaxed so designers and engineers can innovate once again, and get rid of KERS/DRS/crap tyres.
I don't have a problem with Red Bull or Vettel dominating any more than I had a problem with Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Ferrari or McLaren in their heyday. If I had to say why I've lost a bit of interest I'd say it's because everything is so similar, there's hardly any room for innovation within the regulations and whenever a team comes up with something new it's banned. The engines are fixed in performance and hardly ever break, aero is so heavily controlled that there's very little difference between the cars, drivers never miss a gear because it's all electronic, so most of the overtakes are artificial via DRS/KERS. And I don't like the deliberately fragile tyres.
I'd like to see the regulations relaxed so designers and engineers can innovate once again, and get rid of KERS/DRS/crap tyres.
Edited by RYH64E on Sunday 1st September 14:18
toppstuff, I agree 100% with you on this.
For me it started when the BBC stopped showing all the races and Martin Brundle left.
I don't have Sky sports or the F1 channel, because I think Rupert Murdoch is a snake and would never be a part of any of his businesses.
I thought I would miss it, but in actual fact it has done me a favour. Now I do other things on race days and sometimes watch the highlights on BBC and sometimes not.
I know who's going to win the drivers championship and the constructors.
I have now found myself watching some of the Moto GP and found it really exciting...and that's from someone who is not a bike fan!
For me it started when the BBC stopped showing all the races and Martin Brundle left.
I don't have Sky sports or the F1 channel, because I think Rupert Murdoch is a snake and would never be a part of any of his businesses.
I thought I would miss it, but in actual fact it has done me a favour. Now I do other things on race days and sometimes watch the highlights on BBC and sometimes not.
I know who's going to win the drivers championship and the constructors.
I have now found myself watching some of the Moto GP and found it really exciting...and that's from someone who is not a bike fan!
Grandad Gaz said:
For me it started when the BBC stopped showing all the races and Martin Brundle left.
I'm the same, I started watching the races less and less when I couldn't watch the whole season live. Now that I can only see highlights for half the races it almost doesn't seem worth putting the effort in to watch the remaining races live if that makes sense.That's the only thing I can think of that has changed in the past couple of seasons, things like one driver dominating, near perfect reliability of the top teams, barely any accidents were all part of the sport when I was enjoying it a few seasons back.
I don't think 'dominate' means what you think it does. 2 of Vettel's championships went down to the wire, one of those he wasn't the favourite to win, and the other went to the penultimate race. Vettel is winning, but it is in no way 'domination'. Mansell 92 was domination. McLaren winning every race is domination.
They have tried to address reliability by inteoducing the tyres that are nowhere near perfect. That was bad, however, apparently.
They have tried to address reliability by inteoducing the tyres that are nowhere near perfect. That was bad, however, apparently.
You either like F1 or you don't; it isn't something to have a superficial or transient interest in and it isn't about just watching TV . When I first fell for it there was next to no TV coverage so you read about it in MN or Autosport. It wasn't unusual to wait until Thursday to find out who won the previous Sunday (or Saturday). I hate how it has become homogenised and so much of the soul and the spontaneity of the sport has been leached out but nothing comes close to a good GP and little rivals it for live spectacle. It has good seasons and bad ones - 1986 was wonderful, '88 was a yawnathon unless you liked McLaren, 2008 was amazing, 76 was stagggering and 71 and most years Schumacher won were no big deal .The best cars were the 85/6 monster turbos and early atmo cars in 89 and 90. But the V10s in later years were bloody awesome. Next year- my enthusiasm is well in check for impotent little turbos compared to their predecessors but I'll probably be wrong. I'm the guy who thought JJ Lehto was a future champion on the strength of his junior formulae success ,who thought Mansell would never(copyright Peter Warr) win a GP as long as I had a hole in my a**e and who believed that Jim Clark was immortal so what do I know eh ...?
Grandad Gaz said:
I thought I would miss it, but in actual fact it has done me a favour. Now I do other things on race days and sometimes watch the highlights on BBC and sometimes not.
A friend of mine who used to watch races at my house or one of our mates, reckons that cutting the calendar in half has made it a bit more interesting as now he watches every BBC televised race. They stand out. He wasn't a big fan though, just came round for the fun of half a dozen F1 fans arguing all the way through a race.That might be part of the reason it is not quite so interesting for me. Pre Ferrari dominance, I used to run a fantasy F1 at work, did it for five years, and had about 250 participants (until the powers that be realised that £5 x 250 was, er, a lot so banned me using the force network.) Everytime I met with a participant we'd have a chat. If I was introduced to someone from far afield, as soon as I said my name they'd say: Oh! The F1 bloke.
Now I have the neighbour to the north of me, the one next to him and the chap across the road are all F1 fans but for them the enthusiasm has waned a bit. We all went to Goodwood, next year we're all off to Le Mans as well as the Silverstone Classic, but we talk about all motor races, rather than just F1.
So perhaps that's why it seems to me to lack interest compared to some years ago.
When Hamilton joined and was teamed with Alonso, it was IMO an exciting time in modern f1. Championships down to the wire, scandals, some cars good on some circuits and not others, the racing seem more interesting.
But the clown tyres and push to pass drs, no refuelling, 2 second pit stops, constant f
king safety cars as soon as some tt farts, I'm finding all very tiresome. I got sky sports hd specifically when f1 moved to sky and enjoyed the first few races tbh, but I cannot remember the last race I watched all the way through. 70 percent of races I watch the start off, 3 laps in, it's become pretty stale maybe look in half way though, then check out the result.
So I suppose I'm feeling like the OP, it's just become a bit of a farce, not that it didn't have it's moments years ago, but they were generally fia perpetrated. Now, the whole concept of F1 being the pinnacle of engineering etc seems to have been overridden by crappy engineered tyres and having to set the car up as a massive compromise They're doing 5 s a lap slower in the race than qulay for the same set up!
Then look at moto gp today. Top 3 absolutely balls out all race, lap after lap flat out. Ok, not the best year for racing in motogp, but they're riding their balls off the whole race. That's what the top formula should be, IMO.
But the clown tyres and push to pass drs, no refuelling, 2 second pit stops, constant f
king safety cars as soon as some tt farts, I'm finding all very tiresome. I got sky sports hd specifically when f1 moved to sky and enjoyed the first few races tbh, but I cannot remember the last race I watched all the way through. 70 percent of races I watch the start off, 3 laps in, it's become pretty stale maybe look in half way though, then check out the result. So I suppose I'm feeling like the OP, it's just become a bit of a farce, not that it didn't have it's moments years ago, but they were generally fia perpetrated. Now, the whole concept of F1 being the pinnacle of engineering etc seems to have been overridden by crappy engineered tyres and having to set the car up as a massive compromise They're doing 5 s a lap slower in the race than qulay for the same set up!
Then look at moto gp today. Top 3 absolutely balls out all race, lap after lap flat out. Ok, not the best year for racing in motogp, but they're riding their balls off the whole race. That's what the top formula should be, IMO.
Edited by s3fella on Sunday 1st September 21:09
I was going to start this exact thread a couple of days ago.
I still don't support any drivers, but my two favourite teams are having an utterly st season and my interest has wained.
I find myself hoping for "anyone but vettel" to be the winner of a race.
Now to me, Vettel is a conundrum. He is a three times world champion. He is on a level of achievement with Fangio, Brabham, Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Prost, Senna and Schumacher. Now the results will show him as being equal or better than them, but there is no way (in my mind) that he would see which way Prost had gone. I think that if the FIA had banned the exhaust blown diffuser 3 years ago we would not be looking at the formality that this fourth championship has become. I know that MGJohn will have some guff to say extolling his virtues and the heretic will take on the devil's advocate role, but I can not put Vettel in the hall of greats despite the statistics.
Because of this, I find myself disinterested in this year, but I am finding next year fascinating already. with the exhaust blown diffusers gone, I see a different driver dominating.
I still don't support any drivers, but my two favourite teams are having an utterly s
t season and my interest has wained.I find myself hoping for "anyone but vettel" to be the winner of a race.
Now to me, Vettel is a conundrum. He is a three times world champion. He is on a level of achievement with Fangio, Brabham, Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Prost, Senna and Schumacher. Now the results will show him as being equal or better than them, but there is no way (in my mind) that he would see which way Prost had gone. I think that if the FIA had banned the exhaust blown diffuser 3 years ago we would not be looking at the formality that this fourth championship has become. I know that MGJohn will have some guff to say extolling his virtues and the heretic will take on the devil's advocate role, but I can not put Vettel in the hall of greats despite the statistics.
Because of this, I find myself disinterested in this year, but I am finding next year fascinating already. with the exhaust blown diffusers gone, I see a different driver dominating.
Life Saab Itch said:
I was going to start this exact thread a couple of days ago.
I still don't support any drivers, but my two favourite teams are having an utterly st season and my interest has wained.
I find myself hoping for "anyone but vettel" to be the winner of a race.
Now to me, Vettel is a conundrum. He is a three times world champion. He is on a level of achievement with Fangio, Brabham, Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Prost, Senna and Schumacher. Now the results will show him as being equal or better than them, but there is no way (in my mind) that he would see which way Prost had gone. I think that if the FIA had banned the exhaust blown diffuser 3 years ago we would not be looking at the formality that this fourth championship has become. I know that MGJohn will have some guff to say extolling his virtues and the heretic will take on the devil's advocate role, but I can not put Vettel in the hall of greats despite the statistics.
Because of this, I find myself disinterested in this year, but I am finding next year fascinating already. with the exhaust blown diffusers gone, I see a different driver dominating.
Distinctive ring of the fan boy about this post. I still don't support any drivers, but my two favourite teams are having an utterly s
t season and my interest has wained.I find myself hoping for "anyone but vettel" to be the winner of a race.
Now to me, Vettel is a conundrum. He is a three times world champion. He is on a level of achievement with Fangio, Brabham, Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Prost, Senna and Schumacher. Now the results will show him as being equal or better than them, but there is no way (in my mind) that he would see which way Prost had gone. I think that if the FIA had banned the exhaust blown diffuser 3 years ago we would not be looking at the formality that this fourth championship has become. I know that MGJohn will have some guff to say extolling his virtues and the heretic will take on the devil's advocate role, but I can not put Vettel in the hall of greats despite the statistics.
Because of this, I find myself disinterested in this year, but I am finding next year fascinating already. with the exhaust blown diffusers gone, I see a different driver dominating.
OK, here's some 'guff' for you. If Vettel is so poor in your esteem, how does that reflect in the rest of the also rans during the past three and a half seasons?
More added "guff" for you.
Your suggestion about Prost completely undermines credence in your ability to appraise drivers. The ultimate Sunday Driver....
Your Guff-o-meter must be off the scale by now. ... Good eh..
EDIT to add.
That MotoGP event today was something else. Best action I've seen for ages and I've seen some good ones in recent seasons.
MGJohn said:
Distinctive ring of the fan boy about this post.
OK, here's some 'guff' for you. If Vettel is so poor in your esteem, how does that reflect in the rest of the also rans during the past three and a half seasons?
More added "guff" for you.
Your suggestion about Prost completely undermines credence in your ability to appraise drivers. The ultimate Sunday Driver....
Your Guff-o-meter must be off the scale by now. ... Good eh..
EDIT to add.
That MotoGP event today was something else. Best action I've seen for ages and I've seen some good ones in recent seasons.
nope. not a fan-boy at all. I am not obsessive about drivers. I am biased towards McLaren and Williams for their history and because I have friends that work there. I am biased against Ferrari because they think they are special.OK, here's some 'guff' for you. If Vettel is so poor in your esteem, how does that reflect in the rest of the also rans during the past three and a half seasons?
More added "guff" for you.
Your suggestion about Prost completely undermines credence in your ability to appraise drivers. The ultimate Sunday Driver....
Your Guff-o-meter must be off the scale by now. ... Good eh..
EDIT to add.
That MotoGP event today was something else. Best action I've seen for ages and I've seen some good ones in recent seasons.
Prost was the fastest driver in F1 in his early years. especially when driving for Renault. Then he went back to McLaren in 1984 and Lauda showed him how to win a championship. The next year Prost managed to out-Lauda Lauda. Nothing Sunday driver about the bloke. maybe that phrase has been associated with him because of the comparison with Senna who looked on the verge of an accident most of the time. Consider races like Portugal 89 where Senna just didn't have an answer.
Also, the minimal style employed by Prost can be traced back via Lauda, through Stewart to Clark. This pleases me immensely.
Firstly, I never said Vettel was a poor driver. I said I didn't rate him in the same band as a Brabham or a Lauda or any of the other 3 time champions. That doesn't make him a bad driver by any means. As I explained in my earlier post, without the EBD he will be very beatable. was it Silverstone 2010 when the FIA decided to ban it for one race and all of a sudden the great vettel was mincing around only getting fifth because weber was told to stay behind him? Oh, and whilst I have mentioned team orders, I personally find it despicable that he has leaned on the team to support his calls for "multi 1-2" only for him to completely disregard a "multi 2-1" situation. completely unacceptable. I don't think I watched the couple of races after that one as it left such a bad smell...
so, when analysing the guff (do you see what I did there) I stand by what I said before, but will reiterate that I am not some dumb fan-boy who is annoyed that vettel is beating "their" driver, but I am a fan of the.sport who was drawn back in around 2005-6 after several years of disinterest (when a certain German had a team wrapped around his.little finger and the FIA would look away for most small, but obvious, technical discrepancies*) and I have been entertained since then, but I am bored by the current state of affairs and hope that the new regs shake things up somewhat.
*sound familiar?
toppstuff said:
I don't agree..
It's not about Vettel. It's about the utterly predictable outcome if a RB gets to scamper away on a clear track. Championships have been defined by this for several seasons now and I am bored by it.
Mechanical failures are rare. Pit stop rarely seem to make much difference these days to the leader, only to the lower orders in a race.
Take Spa: I am not one of those people who has an issue with Vettel, but when he took the lead on a clear track my heart sank and I went to mow the lawn instead... I didn't really miss anything...
F1 lacks spectacle now. The "show" as Bernie calls it, is a bit stale to this particular bored consumer...
It's not about Vettel. It's about the utterly predictable outcome if a RB gets to scamper away on a clear track. Championships have been defined by this for several seasons now and I am bored by it.
Mechanical failures are rare. Pit stop rarely seem to make much difference these days to the leader, only to the lower orders in a race.
Take Spa: I am not one of those people who has an issue with Vettel, but when he took the lead on a clear track my heart sank and I went to mow the lawn instead... I didn't really miss anything...
F1 lacks spectacle now. The "show" as Bernie calls it, is a bit stale to this particular bored consumer...
toppstuff said:
It really isn't about Vettel for me. I really don't care if a purple monkey is jockey in the RB.
The grid is simply not close enough to RB in terms of race pace. It is as simple as that.
Only unforeseen dramas deflect from an inevitable RB win. It is rare that a car other than an RB wins consistently. More often than not, RB will win and the outcome is often decided pretty early on.
Once the RB has a clear track ahead of it, more often than not it will win. The independent viewer has to hope that a puncture, safety car or some other factor brings the grid closer together.. Even then, it rarely makes a difference.
I think people want to see more teams being closer to each other over race distances. That just isn't happening IMO.
Cars cannot run close to each other over long distances. Challenges do not last long. Gaps between cars are rarely maintained. All too often your hopes get raised because driver A is within 2 seconds of driver B, only to find that the tyres fade or the aero isn't helping and the challenger drops back.
Politics and personalities may interest people, but on the track it just isn't close enough.
Toppstuff, I have never agreed more with a quote than what you have written above, I feel EXACTLY the same way...it's just not close racing anymore. The grid is simply not close enough to RB in terms of race pace. It is as simple as that.
Only unforeseen dramas deflect from an inevitable RB win. It is rare that a car other than an RB wins consistently. More often than not, RB will win and the outcome is often decided pretty early on.
Once the RB has a clear track ahead of it, more often than not it will win. The independent viewer has to hope that a puncture, safety car or some other factor brings the grid closer together.. Even then, it rarely makes a difference.
I think people want to see more teams being closer to each other over race distances. That just isn't happening IMO.
Cars cannot run close to each other over long distances. Challenges do not last long. Gaps between cars are rarely maintained. All too often your hopes get raised because driver A is within 2 seconds of driver B, only to find that the tyres fade or the aero isn't helping and the challenger drops back.
Politics and personalities may interest people, but on the track it just isn't close enough.
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