Renault Brakegate
Discussion
andburg said:
Not sure I understand!!
FIA saying it’s not illegal but giving a penalty anyway because they don’t like the way in which it is used?
It's confusing because they've avoided publishing any details of what the system actually does in order to maintain technical confidentiality, however they seem to be saying that the system doesn't breach any individual technical regulation but does breach the more general bit of the sporting regs which way "the driver must drive the car unaided". FIA saying it’s not illegal but giving a penalty anyway because they don’t like the way in which it is used?
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Let’s be honest, with the way the automobile business is going, renaults ceo change around, the fact all the teams are leaving them and the need for minimum cars on the grid-the was no way they were going to get much more than a slap on the wrist.
This, this and this.The reason the statement makes no sodding sense is because it's not supposed to. I speculated earlier in this thread that the system made the changes but was ultimately under the driver's control... I think that was the get out of jail card. Not just for Renault, but also for the FIA that know Renault would potentially leave if they were disqualified from this season.
In essence, cheating is forgiveable so long as you consider the position you put the FIA and FOM in if you happen to get caught
Edit: I'm also going to stand by another comment I made earlier. In spite of the FIA soft serve in terms of penalty this is seriously bad news for Renault as a team. Bad enough getting beaten by a British customer team, even worse if there is even a hint of them cheating and still getting beaten. The team is part state owned and this sort of thing will not please the French tax payer in the least. It's also a sign of desperation at Renault, or at very least - that is how the press will translate it. Bad times indeed on top of their already shakey performance this season.
Edited by TheDeuce on Wednesday 23 October 23:24
Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 24th October 08:30
Reading the report it sounds to me like they were getting round the rule by saying the driver did have to push a button to activate it. However from the push it may then make changes on its own, for how long we don't know but the FIA do it looks like. The actual way the system works was not published - it was thought to be by distance, but they treated the Renault document as IP so did not publish it but did say it did not work in that way.
A couple of interesting points in here, and just skimmed over shortly.
The system worked over a distance not a lap, so I’m assuming the brake balance was in line with Weight (fuel) reduction, this would enable significant pre distribution of ballast, and could give a significant race pace advantage. Clever stuff..
Not a technical rule breach but a sporting one, rule 27.1 could apply to drs on auto shut when the brake peddle is pushed, after all the manually open it (and can manually close it), or many other automated procedures, pit lane speed button?
Anyway I can see this one going to tribunal/appeal, Renault may have to roll out the IP.
The system worked over a distance not a lap, so I’m assuming the brake balance was in line with Weight (fuel) reduction, this would enable significant pre distribution of ballast, and could give a significant race pace advantage. Clever stuff..
Not a technical rule breach but a sporting one, rule 27.1 could apply to drs on auto shut when the brake peddle is pushed, after all the manually open it (and can manually close it), or many other automated procedures, pit lane speed button?
Anyway I can see this one going to tribunal/appeal, Renault may have to roll out the IP.
F355GTS said:
V8 WUU said:
Am i right in thinking someone at racing point noticed this from watching an onboard feed and seeing the brake balance indication change without the driver touching the wheel??
Sounds that way but also mention of something said by a previous Renault employee
Reading between the lines it sounds to me as though the system knows where the car is on the track and then when the driver pushes the button it selects the correct bias for that section. Legal in that the driver is selecting the bias but illegal in that he is not selecting the actual amount himself.
Kraken said:
Reading between the lines it sounds to me as though the system knows where the car is on the track and then when the driver pushes the button it selects the correct bias for that section. Legal in that the driver is selecting the bias but illegal in that he is not selecting the actual amount himself.
Bias adjust is a dial - adjusting the dial must overide what the system was doing automatically. Hence, driver remains 'in control'. That's the fuzzy bit.Kraken said:
TheDeuce said:
Bias adjust is a dial - adjusting the dial must overide what the system was doing automatically. Hence, driver remains 'in control'. That's the fuzzy bit.
Not on most cars these days. It's levers.It used to be dials though I'm sure of it!?
i see this as similar to engine maps.
Want to save fuel, switch to map 7.
Reduce torque as tyres degrade between 2 slow corners map 3.
Full beans overtake, map 1 and rotary dial 2
Surely these predefined maps are all aids?
Its no longer a direct connection from the throttle to the drivers right foot. For the same input in each map the car's performance would vary to aid the driver in their objective. The driver doesn't have to constantly adjust he presses a button and the car does it for him.
bit different to
save fuel - lift throttle
go faster - more throttle
protect rear tyres - apply throttle more gradually
Want to save fuel, switch to map 7.
Reduce torque as tyres degrade between 2 slow corners map 3.
Full beans overtake, map 1 and rotary dial 2
Surely these predefined maps are all aids?
Its no longer a direct connection from the throttle to the drivers right foot. For the same input in each map the car's performance would vary to aid the driver in their objective. The driver doesn't have to constantly adjust he presses a button and the car does it for him.
bit different to
save fuel - lift throttle
go faster - more throttle
protect rear tyres - apply throttle more gradually
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