Leclerc Twitter statement
Discussion
To expand a little further after some thought.
Cost is a barrier to the driving side, always has been for any creed, gender. However, being " different" can add to your chances of getting backed financially obviously, we are all aware that a lot of average female racers have lengthy careers simply because of their gender, or perhaps their careers are longer results wise then they ought to be as a result of them being able to be "token" and attract large deals. I have no issue with that, it is about what you can get and find for yourself, it's a dog eat dog world.
But I doubt being black would help in this way.
What I would like to see this foundation do is to find out why black people or even multi cultural people in general are not really interested in motorsport. They seem to like cars, going fast, spending money on them, but have no real desire to watch or participate as much as white men do. As far as I can tell.
Did thousands of black boys and girls suddenly take up golf when Tiger became the biggest thing in sport? Maybe, but so far it has not filtered into the big league that much and neither has black participation because of Lewis in F1 and his success. There is the smattering we have always seen, maybe a higher percentage of black/Asian people involved all round, but not a huge increase, and that has to be a question.
Is it the image? Is it always seeing white success? is it something they have experienced? Is it simply not an interesting sport? I would guess it is linked to youth, fathers, gaming al sorts of things.
I do believe there might be barriers facing young engineers, and that applies to women and men. In my experience motorsport is an incredibly picky business in terms of career, so there might be genuine need for attention there.
But I do NOT believe this is about education, I think firmly that is is simply a cultural interest issue. Same as why f1 did nothing in Turkey, Korea, India, because the people who live there are just not interested in big numbers, they get their sporting kicks elsewhere.
Cost is a barrier to the driving side, always has been for any creed, gender. However, being " different" can add to your chances of getting backed financially obviously, we are all aware that a lot of average female racers have lengthy careers simply because of their gender, or perhaps their careers are longer results wise then they ought to be as a result of them being able to be "token" and attract large deals. I have no issue with that, it is about what you can get and find for yourself, it's a dog eat dog world.
But I doubt being black would help in this way.
What I would like to see this foundation do is to find out why black people or even multi cultural people in general are not really interested in motorsport. They seem to like cars, going fast, spending money on them, but have no real desire to watch or participate as much as white men do. As far as I can tell.
Did thousands of black boys and girls suddenly take up golf when Tiger became the biggest thing in sport? Maybe, but so far it has not filtered into the big league that much and neither has black participation because of Lewis in F1 and his success. There is the smattering we have always seen, maybe a higher percentage of black/Asian people involved all round, but not a huge increase, and that has to be a question.
Is it the image? Is it always seeing white success? is it something they have experienced? Is it simply not an interesting sport? I would guess it is linked to youth, fathers, gaming al sorts of things.
I do believe there might be barriers facing young engineers, and that applies to women and men. In my experience motorsport is an incredibly picky business in terms of career, so there might be genuine need for attention there.
But I do NOT believe this is about education, I think firmly that is is simply a cultural interest issue. Same as why f1 did nothing in Turkey, Korea, India, because the people who live there are just not interested in big numbers, they get their sporting kicks elsewhere.
Motorrad said:
It seems to me that Hamilton is trying to dominate the other drivers by stating that they are part of the problem if they don't comply with his idea of how to show your rejection of racism. It's only natural that other Alpha males will reject his call to take the knee as a matter of course-totally regardless of their personal stance on the matter.
Not picking on you in particular, just yours was the first comment along these lines...https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53302495
BBC said:
The issue was discussed at a meeting of the GPDA on Friday and Hamilton emphasised after finishing fourth in the season-opening race on Sunday that he had "never requested or demanded anyone to take the knee" and that "nobody should be forced into a scenario where they have to kneel".
"I never even brought it up," he said. "It was brought up by F1 and the GPDA. When we did the drivers' briefing, Seb (Vettel) and (Romain) Grosjean both brought it up and asked the drivers whether or not they would do it and there were several that said they wouldn't.
"And I let everyone say what they wanted to say and I opened up to them and I said I will be doing it but you do what you feel is right and I'm really grateful for those who did kneel along with me.
"Everyone had the right to their own personal choice and that was what I felt was right to do."
"I never even brought it up," he said. "It was brought up by F1 and the GPDA. When we did the drivers' briefing, Seb (Vettel) and (Romain) Grosjean both brought it up and asked the drivers whether or not they would do it and there were several that said they wouldn't.
"And I let everyone say what they wanted to say and I opened up to them and I said I will be doing it but you do what you feel is right and I'm really grateful for those who did kneel along with me.
"Everyone had the right to their own personal choice and that was what I felt was right to do."
DanL said:
Motorrad said:
It seems to me that Hamilton is trying to dominate the other drivers by stating that they are part of the problem if they don't comply with his idea of how to show your rejection of racism. It's only natural that other Alpha males will reject his call to take the knee as a matter of course-totally regardless of their personal stance on the matter.
Not picking on you in particular, just yours was the first comment along these lines...https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53302495
BBC said:
The issue was discussed at a meeting of the GPDA on Friday and Hamilton emphasised after finishing fourth in the season-opening race on Sunday that he had "never requested or demanded anyone to take the knee" and that "nobody should be forced into a scenario where they have to kneel".
"I never even brought it up," he said. "It was brought up by F1 and the GPDA. When we did the drivers' briefing, Seb (Vettel) and (Romain) Grosjean both brought it up and asked the drivers whether or not they would do it and there were several that said they wouldn't.
"And I let everyone say what they wanted to say and I opened up to them and I said I will be doing it but you do what you feel is right and I'm really grateful for those who did kneel along with me.
"Everyone had the right to their own personal choice and that was what I felt was right to do."
"I never even brought it up," he said. "It was brought up by F1 and the GPDA. When we did the drivers' briefing, Seb (Vettel) and (Romain) Grosjean both brought it up and asked the drivers whether or not they would do it and there were several that said they wouldn't.
"And I let everyone say what they wanted to say and I opened up to them and I said I will be doing it but you do what you feel is right and I'm really grateful for those who did kneel along with me.
"Everyone had the right to their own personal choice and that was what I felt was right to do."
I was referencing his quote that people who remain silent were complicit being the sort of thing that will automatically make some competitors do the opposite.
LukeBrown66 said:
To expand a little further after some thought.
Snip
You've written a post that reflects a lot of what I have been thinking for years. Some people look at the raw demographic and say "it's imbalanced therefore prejudice". When the reality is often one of "different parents prioritise different things" or "different cultures value different things".Snip
I went to uni around the turn of the millennium. All bar one of my Asian schoolmates went into medicine, with a lot of hard work on their part and a LOT of encouragement from their parents. Now, I had exactly the same opportunities at school, no-one told me "don't do medicine". My parents let me choose my own way, they never told me I had to study this subject or that subject. I didn't want to go into medicine.
Of my schoolmates, 10 ended up in medicine. 7 Asian, 2 white, 1 Persian. This doesn't reflect the demographics of our country, but it's not because of prejudice.
REALIST123 said:
pquinn said:
Sandpit Steve said:
The best thing Lewis can do is start funding young black kids
I'm sure he must have done lots of things over the years given he's so passionate about this? Surely?Sponsorships? Scholarships? Charitable stuff? Donations?
Lets not forget he (quote) 'escaped from the slums of Stevenage'.
There is a foundation of course - https://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-deta...
pquinn said:
Sandpit Steve said:
The best thing Lewis can do is start funding young black kids
I'm sure he must have done lots of things over the years given he's so passionate about this? Surely?Sponsorships? Scholarships? Charitable stuff? Donations?
What lowers my opinion of him is the narrative he likes to convey, specifically:
The implication: Lewis was a poor young black street urchin on the mean streets of Compton. By the time he was 9 half of his friends were in jail and the other half were dealing crack and it was only because an OG by the name of Big Tasty Ecclestone saw him driving getaway from a driveby of some punk-ass b
hes that he got his big break and got his ass out of the ghetto. Reality: Lewis was an upper-middle class mixed race child in a Hertfordshire town with a lot of mixed race people of his generation and the generation before, living with his wealthy black father (once he moved out of the council house where he lived with his white mum).
He really narked the good folk of Stevenage when he referred to his departure as "getting out of the slums"... working class council estate != slum.
bennno said:
REALIST123 said:
pquinn said:
Sandpit Steve said:
The best thing Lewis can do is start funding young black kids
I'm sure he must have done lots of things over the years given he's so passionate about this? Surely?Sponsorships? Scholarships? Charitable stuff? Donations?
Lets not forget he (quote) 'escaped from the slums of Stevenage'.
There is a foundation of course - https://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-deta...
rscott said:
bennno said:
REALIST123 said:
pquinn said:
Sandpit Steve said:
The best thing Lewis can do is start funding young black kids
I'm sure he must have done lots of things over the years given he's so passionate about this? Surely?Sponsorships? Scholarships? Charitable stuff? Donations?
Lets not forget he (quote) 'escaped from the slums of Stevenage'.
There is a foundation of course - https://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-deta...
bennno said:
rscott said:
bennno said:
REALIST123 said:
pquinn said:
Sandpit Steve said:
The best thing Lewis can do is start funding young black kids
I'm sure he must have done lots of things over the years given he's so passionate about this? Surely?Sponsorships? Scholarships? Charitable stuff? Donations?
Lets not forget he (quote) 'escaped from the slums of Stevenage'.
There is a foundation of course - https://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-deta...
rscott said:
Yep - he avoided tax on a jet using legal methods (although not necessarily the proper thing to do). He still pays tax in the UK though, contrary to your claim above.
Cant see anywhere that he pays UK tax, lots of articles saying he doesnt as a Monaco resident. What have you seen to confirm he is a UK tax payer?bennno said:
rscott said:
Yep - he avoided tax on a jet using legal methods (although not necessarily the proper thing to do). He still pays tax in the UK though, contrary to your claim above.
Cant see anywhere that he pays UK tax, lots of articles saying he doesnt as a Monaco resident. What have you seen to confirm he is a UK tax payer?Also mentioned here -https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/formula1/lewis-hamilton-new-years-honours-list-2020-omitted-f1-world-champion-knighted-tax-uk-charity-work-a9262226.html
"However, Lord Hain, who sits on the All Party Parliamentary Group for F1, has pointed out that 34-year-old Hamilton is among the top 5,000 tax-payers in the country due to his work for the Brackley-based Mercedes team, and pointed out that he also donates millions each year to charity."
Not that living in Monaco should make any difference - didn't affect these even though they officially reside outside the uk.. Jackie Stewart (Switzerland), Nigel Mansell (Isle of Man), Damon Hill (Dublin) or Jenson Button (Channel Islands & Monaco)
LukeBrown66 said:
To expand a little further after some thought.
Cost is a barrier to the driving side, always has been for any creed, gender. However, being " different" can add to your chances of getting backed financially obviously, we are all aware that a lot of average female racers have lengthy careers simply because of their gender, or perhaps their careers are longer results wise then they ought to be as a result of them being able to be "token" and attract large deals. I have no issue with that, it is about what you can get and find for yourself, it's a dog eat dog world.
But I doubt being black would help in this way.
What I would like to see this foundation do is to find out why black people or even multi cultural people in general are not really interested in motorsport. They seem to like cars, going fast, spending money on them, but have no real desire to watch or participate as much as white men do. As far as I can tell.
Did thousands of black boys and girls suddenly take up golf when Tiger became the biggest thing in sport? Maybe, but so far it has not filtered into the big league that much and neither has black participation because of Lewis in F1 and his success. There is the smattering we have always seen, maybe a higher percentage of black/Asian people involved all round, but not a huge increase, and that has to be a question.
Is it the image? Is it always seeing white success? is it something they have experienced? Is it simply not an interesting sport? I would guess it is linked to youth, fathers, gaming al sorts of things.
I do believe there might be barriers facing young engineers, and that applies to women and men. In my experience motorsport is an incredibly picky business in terms of career, so there might be genuine need for attention there.
But I do NOT believe this is about education, I think firmly that is is simply a cultural interest issue. Same as why f1 did nothing in Turkey, Korea, India, because the people who live there are just not interested in big numbers, they get their sporting kicks elsewhere.
There’s a few topics where I’ve wanted to add views on recent events but a lot of them are so messy.Cost is a barrier to the driving side, always has been for any creed, gender. However, being " different" can add to your chances of getting backed financially obviously, we are all aware that a lot of average female racers have lengthy careers simply because of their gender, or perhaps their careers are longer results wise then they ought to be as a result of them being able to be "token" and attract large deals. I have no issue with that, it is about what you can get and find for yourself, it's a dog eat dog world.
But I doubt being black would help in this way.
What I would like to see this foundation do is to find out why black people or even multi cultural people in general are not really interested in motorsport. They seem to like cars, going fast, spending money on them, but have no real desire to watch or participate as much as white men do. As far as I can tell.
Did thousands of black boys and girls suddenly take up golf when Tiger became the biggest thing in sport? Maybe, but so far it has not filtered into the big league that much and neither has black participation because of Lewis in F1 and his success. There is the smattering we have always seen, maybe a higher percentage of black/Asian people involved all round, but not a huge increase, and that has to be a question.
Is it the image? Is it always seeing white success? is it something they have experienced? Is it simply not an interesting sport? I would guess it is linked to youth, fathers, gaming al sorts of things.
I do believe there might be barriers facing young engineers, and that applies to women and men. In my experience motorsport is an incredibly picky business in terms of career, so there might be genuine need for attention there.
But I do NOT believe this is about education, I think firmly that is is simply a cultural interest issue. Same as why f1 did nothing in Turkey, Korea, India, because the people who live there are just not interested in big numbers, they get their sporting kicks elsewhere.
I personally don’t think that a lot of jobs present actual barriers because of your background. Academic achievement, experience or talent obviously differ and presents barriers, but that’s just job criteria.
You’ve got a mixed race multiple F1 champion, highest paid, biggest ‘star’ outside of F1 of all the drivers. Why aren’t there more black F1 drivers, I don’t know, but as demonstrated there isn’t a barrier present to getting to the highest level in motor racing.
Black people hold successful, powerful positions in all kinds of professions, music, acting, sports etc etc. What stopped those individuals?
Not everyone is going to make it to the top. There a many many youths of any background who will never have the upbringing or finances to do what they might dream of. That isn’t something unique to black youths.
Hamilton was asked what racism he had experienced and he said something along the lines of ‘I once had’ almost referring to something on a singular level as opposed to something so culturally bad.
The trouble is very few get into F1 as it is, being top of the levels down the ladder is also immensely hard. Just doing a basic form of motor racing is expensive but the barrier of money exists for anyone.
Another conversation I have an interest in is why aren’t there more black Pro cyclists. Cycling can be very expensive, but it doesn’t need to be. A dedicated and talented person on a basic road bike will still stand out. If a black person worked their way to pro ranking level and could out sprint Sagan or have grand tour abilities like Froome, I have absolutely no doubt they would be signed up and given as much chance as anyone else. Even boil it down to teams wanting to win. If you have someone of immense talent a who is going to win for you, the team management is not going to give a fig where you are from or skin colour.
It hard to answer and what is the solution people are looking for. I hate racism, but I’m sick of things simply being branded as institutionally racist all the time.
Only one mixed race driver in F1 currently. I don’t know why, but I also don’t think it is because F1 is racist.
Jasandjules said:
Looked to me like several were not taking the knee. Which is nice, I hope their actions speak louder about their desire to stamp out racism. Simple words and gestures mean little as you say, what matters is what you do.
Care to point out some of this 'racism' which they're going to be in a position to stamp out?rallycross said:
Glad you reminded us of that nonsense, it nicely sums up how stupid he is and the card he is playing.
However he really is a great driver and that's all that matters in F1.
No question about Hamilton's ability, easily the best driver of the last half decade or more (of course, being in easily the best car helps too). But his constant courting of social media fame really doesn't do him any favours.However he really is a great driver and that's all that matters in F1.
On the other hand, maybe the sport needs more 'characters' to get the pundits in. Good guys, bad guys, guys with some sort of quirk. eg. Tennis seemed much better when the likes of Ille Nastase and John McEnroe were about, same goes for Snooker with Hurricane Higgins.
The problem is that most sports stars who don't want to be private seem to just want to be 'right on with the kids' on instagram and Twitter.
donkmeister said:
I am aware that he has been involved with some solid fund-raising for good causes (including a children's hospice not far from me). That is something that elevates my opinion of him.
What lowers my opinion of him is the narrative he likes to convey, specifically:
The implication: Lewis was a poor young black street urchin on the mean streets of Compton. By the time he was 9 half of his friends were in jail and the other half were dealing crack and it was only because an OG by the name of Big Tasty Ecclestone saw him driving getaway from a driveby of some punk-ass bhes that he got his big break and got his ass out of the ghetto.
Reality: Lewis was an upper-middle class mixed race child in a Hertfordshire town with a lot of mixed race people of his generation and the generation before, living with his wealthy black father (once he moved out of the council house where he lived with his white mum).
He really narked the good folk of Stevenage when he referred to his departure as "getting out of the slums"... working class council estate != slum.
that's not quite how i remember him being talked about when i did a Kart track day at Rye many many years ago ...when i got chatting to a marshal about the annoying kids who were lapping me, i asked who the next big thing was & i quote "look out for the black kid, with second hand kit embarrassing the middle class white kids, called Lewis Hamilton"What lowers my opinion of him is the narrative he likes to convey, specifically:
The implication: Lewis was a poor young black street urchin on the mean streets of Compton. By the time he was 9 half of his friends were in jail and the other half were dealing crack and it was only because an OG by the name of Big Tasty Ecclestone saw him driving getaway from a driveby of some punk-ass b
hes that he got his big break and got his ass out of the ghetto. Reality: Lewis was an upper-middle class mixed race child in a Hertfordshire town with a lot of mixed race people of his generation and the generation before, living with his wealthy black father (once he moved out of the council house where he lived with his white mum).
He really narked the good folk of Stevenage when he referred to his departure as "getting out of the slums"... working class council estate != slum.
if he was upper middle class, he seemed to be hiding it well ...unless Stevenage has a different criteria of what constitutes "upper middle class" which is quite possible, as it seemed like most new towns to me, i.e a bit of concrete dump (no offence people of Stevenage
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