Official 2022 Canadian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[TypeRTim]

Scarbs and Driver61 also had access to this data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRJH6qpsLIs

[jimPH]

TypeRTim said:

honda_exige said:

Spot the Mercedes.

Would be awful to get the rules changed because a single team can't get performance out of their dog of a car without shaking their drivers to injury.

Gonna be interesting to see how they set up in Canada.

Interesting the dramatic shift in amplitude post lap 20. would be interesting to see if there was a correlating increase in frequency...

What's going on with McLaren and Alpine?

[Jasandjules]

honda_exige said:

Would be awful to get the rules changed because a single team can't get performance out of their dog of a car without shaking their drivers to injury.

Yeah, would be awful if rules were changed because one team had an amazing party mode on their engine and could ace qualy.. Would be awful if rules were changed because one team had a superb suspension system to warm up their tyres...... Would be awful if one team had a great aero set up and we had to change the rules to hobble them.......

Funny how some people only want rules changed when it is not their team winning...

I should note I don't actually think the rules should be changed, I think Mercedes have to fix their own problem........ But hey, the rules were frequently changed to hamper Merc over the last few years and hey, we even had the rules ignored completely to gift Red Bull the WDC>

[TypeRTim]

Jasandjules said:

honda_exige said:

Would be awful to get the rules changed because a single team can't get performance out of their dog of a car without shaking their drivers to injury.

Yeah, would be awful if rules were changed because one team had an amazing party mode on their engine and could ace qualy.. Would be awful if rules were changed because one team had a superb suspension system to warm up their tyres...... Would be awful if one team had a great aero set up and we had to change the rules to hobble them.......

Funny how some people only want rules changed when it is not their team winning...

I should note I don't actually think the rules should be changed, I think Mercedes have to fix their own problem........ But hey, the rules were frequently changed to hamper Merc over the last few years and hey, we even had the rules ignored completely to gift Red Bull the WDC>

Party mode - not one team (it was all engine suppliers - but one supplier had a 'better' one)
DAS - technically was illegal as adjustable suspension whilst in motion. Was waived through for one season on the technicality that it was actuated using the steering column. The FIA admitted as much that if it were a separate lever inside the cockpit, the system would have been illegal.

Let's not forget Flexi-wings on RBR, the mysterious Ferrari Power Unit infraction/settlement etc.

All teams get things banned when they try to exploit loopholes.

From what we know so far, the cars not affected as badly by porpoising are not exploiting a loophole or grey area in the regulations to do it. If they were, i think the idea of 'pulling them back' would get more support.

[Jasandjules]

TypeRTim said:

Party mode - not one team (it was all engine suppliers - but one supplier had a 'better' one)
DAS - technically was illegal as adjustable suspension whilst in motion. Was waived through for one season on the technicality that it was actuated using the steering column. The FIA admitted as much that if it were a separate lever inside the cockpit, the system would have been illegal.

.

Both within the rules as they stood...

[honda_exige]

Jasandjules said:

honda_exige said:

Would be awful to get the rules changed because a single team can't get performance out of their dog of a car without shaking their drivers to injury.

Yeah, would be awful if rules were changed because one team had an amazing party mode on their engine and could ace qualy.. Would be awful if rules were changed because one team had a superb suspension system to warm up their tyres...... Would be awful if one team had a great aero set up and we had to change the rules to hobble them.......

Funny how some people only want rules changed when it is not their team winning...

I should note I don't actually think the rules should be changed, I think Mercedes have to fix their own problem........ But hey, the rules were frequently changed to hamper Merc over the last few years and hey, we even had the rules ignored completely to gift Red Bull the WDC>

The engine regs + tokens kept Mercs dominant engines for what-4yrs?

DAS - the ban was to Mercedes' favour as they had a whole year with an uninterrupted advantage as it was not worth the cost of other teams developing - Remember RB/Ferrari saying if it wasn't for the ban they would've had it on their cars within 3-4 months.

Aero-the floor was changed due to the tyre failures caused by excessive cornering speeds & and wasn't mid-year.

When have the rules been changed because a singular team fked up their car design to a degree greater than anyone else injuring their own drivers?

As per the point I made on the last thread - if that line on the graph was Williams and they were politicking their way into advantageous rule changes how many here would be happy with that?

[Jasandjules]

honda_exige said:

When have the rules been changed because a singular team fked up their car design to a degree greater than anyone else injuring their own drivers?

Perhaps try reading what was responded to. Then take off those Red Bull filters and you will understand the point.

[HustleRussell]

I think it's a Ferrari pole again- and maybe Red Bull can't get past this time?

We had a few laps of Verstappen on Leclerc with DRS in Baku and he didn't sail past as easily as I expected.

I am assuming that Leclerc isn't going to take engine penalties...

ETA: Taken a brave pill and voted Sainz

[SturdyHSV]

Jasandjules said:

honda_exige said:

When have the rules been changed because a singular team fked up their car design to a degree greater than anyone else injuring their own drivers?

Perhaps try reading what was responded to. Then take off those Red Bull filters and you will understand the point.

I think he did mostly respond to your points directly and in order?

With regards to the floor regs changing which ended up hampering Mercedes, an awful lot of noise was made pre-season about the fact nobody knew how the changes would impact the cars, whether it would make the 'high rake' philosophy worse due to removing crucial floor area right where it was needed, or whether it would impact the 'low rake' philosophy for largely the same reason.

I appreciate with hindsight it's very obvious that the changes hampered Mercedes', but they were introduced by the FIA to reduce loads on the tyres, it was not a targeted attempt to hamper low rake cars. If anyone had actually been able to predict the extent to which it would impact Mercedes, you'd think it would have been the Mercedes aero team, who would have likely made some noise about it before the change came in to play...?

Or am I being naive and in fact it was all some hushed up conspiracy where Toto agreed with Ross Brawn to accept the changes in return for it making the championship more exciting etc.?

EDIT:

Also, to add, I think he has a point even on the simple basis that typically, rules have been changed when one team has got something very 'right' and they have a big performance advantage over everyone else as a result, especially if it's borderline with the regulations.

By contrast, this is an instance where one team appears to have got something very 'wrong' and have a big disadvantage over everyone else as a result. I mean, it's not even a big performance disadvantage, they're still comfortably the 3rd fastest car, perhaps if they raise the car they'll only be the 5th fastest car or something, again still not an enormous imbalance (other than it being Mercedes, who understandably are expected to be a second quicker than everyone else most of the time)

Edited by SturdyHSV on Wednesday 15th June 14:06

[kambites]

honda_exige said:

Would be awful to get the rules changed because a single team can't get performance out of their dog of a car without shaking their drivers to injury.

Depends on how they change the rules - the obvious solution is simply to limit the amount that cars are allowed to porpoise without changing anything else. Something like if the car experiences a peak vertical load of more than 1g more than 20 times on a single lap, it gets black flagged.

Obviously those numbers might not be suitable, but the principle should work.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 15th June 14:14

[Byker28i]

TypeRTim said:

Scarbs and Driver61 also had access to this data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRJH6qpsLIs

That graph and data isn't in that video?
The original graph shows up in a reddit thread which is where HE probably nicked it from, but there's plenty of questions of sources...
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/vcfeqm/...

HE - can you point to the twitter post that https://twitter.com/kunalashah provides this graph please.

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 15th June 14:39

[TypeRTim]

Byker28i said:

TypeRTim said:

Scarbs and Driver61 also had access to this data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRJH6qpsLIs

That graph and data isn't in that video?
The original graph shows up in a reddit thread which is where HE probably nicked it from, but there's plenty of questions of sources...
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/vcfeqm/...

HE - can you point to the twitter post that https://twitter.com/kunalashah provides this graph please.

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 15th June 14:39

That EXACT graph isn't,

but the data for vertical acceleration and frequency was on there, so it is available.

[honda_exige]

Byker28i said:

TypeRTim said:

Scarbs and Driver61 also had access to this data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRJH6qpsLIs

That graph and data isn't in that video?
The original graph shows up in a reddit thread which is where HE probably nicked it from, but there's plenty of questions of sources...
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/vcfeqm/...

HE - can you point to the twitter post that https://twitter.com/kunalashah provides this graph please.

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 15th June 14:39

I came across it on Twitter, Kunal Shah hasn't posted the graph but does reference the exact same 0.77G figure contained in the graph I posted between turns 12-15. It's fairly obvious he's reading from the same info.

F1 does this time to time for some reason - release data to the Journos only. For eg the pre-race technical changes document - not posted anywhere on the FIA document repository but instead sent privately to Journos one of whom might post a screenshot. Not sure why they do it.

[Byker28i]

honda_exige said:

Byker28i said:

TypeRTim said:

Scarbs and Driver61 also had access to this data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRJH6qpsLIs

That graph and data isn't in that video?
The original graph shows up in a reddit thread which is where HE probably nicked it from, but there's plenty of questions of sources...
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/vcfeqm/...

HE - can you point to the twitter post that https://twitter.com/kunalashah provides this graph please.

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 15th June 14:39

I came across it on Twitter, Kunal Shah hasn't posted the graph but does reference the exact same 0.77G figure contained in the graph I posted between turns 12-15. It's fairly obvious he's reading from the same info.

F1 does this time to time for some reason - release sata to the Journoa only. For eg the pre-race technical changes document - not posted anywhere on the FIA document repository but instead sent privately to Journos one of whom might post a screenshot. Not sure why they do it.

So post the source - at the moment it appears you've delightfully posted it to dig at Merc again having seen it on reddit...

Yet you're the first to complain if someone is derogatory to Max...

[sandman77]

There is a twitter user called fiagirly that posts these graphs. As far as I can that is where others are getting them from. No idea where she gets them though.

[honda_exige]

sandman77 said:

There is a twitter user called fiagirly that posts these graphs. As far as I can that is where others are getting them from. No idea where she gets them though.

Yeah she could be the originator, I saw it randomly as a recommended post thing by someone else, but they all seem to have been posted 21hrs ago. I assume it's legit.

Also : very pronounced ride height/floor height difference or flexing between the RB and Merc.

[ddom]

So Hamilton will race at Canada, well, it’s a miracle thought it was a ‘spinal’ issue according to Wolff.

A good piece by Brundle the other day, which I totally agree with.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/18896951/lewis-hami...

[paulguitar]

ddom said:

So Hamilton will race at Canada, well, it’s a miracle thought it was a ‘spinal’ issue according to Wolff.

A number of drivers are now speaking out about this issue. The Merc is clearly the car that suffers the most, and Hamilton's more than Russell's, in Baku, due to an experimental floor he was trying, but several drivers have what are clearly legitimate concerns.

[Sandpit Steve]

honda_exige said:

Yeah she could be the originator, I saw it randomly as a recommended post thing by someone else, but they all seem to have been posted 21hrs ago. I assume it's legit.

Also : very pronounced ride height/floor height difference or flexing between the RB and Merc.

Mercedes have basically got the car slammed on the deck, and with no suspension except the air in the tyres.

This was the cornering picture that Toto was looking at with Anthony Davidson, in the video the Mercedes is bouncing like crazy while the RB maintains an almost constant gap between the floor and the track.

Edit: Just realised this is the Canada thread, and not the Baku analysis thread.
Canada is not quite as bumpy, and the straight not quite as long as in Baku, so hopefully there will be less of an effect on the drivers here.

[MustangGT]

TypeRTim said:

Jasandjules said:

honda_exige said:

Would be awful to get the rules changed because a single team can't get performance out of their dog of a car without shaking their drivers to injury.

Yeah, would be awful if rules were changed because one team had an amazing party mode on their engine and could ace qualy.. Would be awful if rules were changed because one team had a superb suspension system to warm up their tyres...... Would be awful if one team had a great aero set up and we had to change the rules to hobble them.......

Funny how some people only want rules changed when it is not their team winning...

I should note I don't actually think the rules should be changed, I think Mercedes have to fix their own problem........ But hey, the rules were frequently changed to hamper Merc over the last few years and hey, we even had the rules ignored completely to gift Red Bull the WDC>

Party mode - not one team (it was all engine suppliers - but one supplier had a 'better' one)
DAS - technically was illegal as adjustable suspension whilst in motion. Was waived through for one season on the technicality that it was actuated using the steering column. The FIA admitted as much that if it were a separate lever inside the cockpit, the system would have been illegal.

Let's not forget Flexi-wings on RBR, the mysterious Ferrari Power Unit infraction/settlement etc.

The major difference is that DAS and party modes were not illegal at all. Saying DAS was 'technically illegal' is just plain wrong. The FIA found it was within the rules the way that Mercedes set it up. If they had a separate lever then yes it would be illegal, but they did not.

RBR wings were clearly illegal all through the first races until they were required to conform to a tougher test.