2021 Cost Cap Breaches
Discussion
BrettMRC said:
RBR will have had nothing but a minor indescretion, a simple rounding error (to the neared $M) and everyone can just move on...
Toto was saying to Sky that the rumour is pretty clear who is most in breach.. And if over 5% the ramifications for last season, this season and even next season. I mean, if you are over 5%, how the hell can you overspend by 8m or so? Toto was also saying about they made 40 people redundant and have had huge performance losses they could have fixed for that money.
Jon_Bmw said:
Bold prediction;
RB will be over the limit, but find a loophole to avoid serious punishment (any expenditure doesn't mean all etc).
There will be a big slap on the wrists and a cost cap regulation clarification.
Meanwhile they gained a material advantage for 2 or 3 years. Lol.
Yup. RB will be over the limit, but find a loophole to avoid serious punishment (any expenditure doesn't mean all etc).
There will be a big slap on the wrists and a cost cap regulation clarification.
Meanwhile they gained a material advantage for 2 or 3 years. Lol.
Horner/RBR: ".....ALL of ANY expenditure the FIA see over the cap limit was used exclusively on Perez' car and never made it to Max' car your honor..."
Highly, highly unlikely that the FIA will retrospectively change last year's results or take away Max's crown now that he's about to win this year.
Realistic justice punishment - reduction of cost cap for RB next year, suspended points deduction/exclusion and/or actual points deduction for 2023.
Most realistic punishment - heavy fine, suspended points deduction.
This will only serve to make Abu Dhabi '21 taste even more salty.....
Realistic justice punishment - reduction of cost cap for RB next year, suspended points deduction/exclusion and/or actual points deduction for 2023.
Most realistic punishment - heavy fine, suspended points deduction.
This will only serve to make Abu Dhabi '21 taste even more salty.....
Well that, if true, would throw a spanner in the works. If Redbull did breach the cost cap last year to a "material" degree, the FIA have a serious problem - retrospectively changing the result of the WDC would be ridiculous but so would setting the precedent that teams can ignore the budget cap and not get penalised in a way which will change the result of the championship.
Excluding them from this year's championships would be fascinating mind - imagine the last six races looking at the current points if you remove the Redbull team and drivers.
ETA: Even if it's a minor breach, if the penalties don't have any effect on the championships they will simply be increasing the budget cap by 5% for teams rich enough to pay the fine. Unless of course, the fine has to come out of the next season's budget cap, which gets a bit incestuous!
Excluding them from this year's championships would be fascinating mind - imagine the last six races looking at the current points if you remove the Redbull team and drivers.
ETA: Even if it's a minor breach, if the penalties don't have any effect on the championships they will simply be increasing the budget cap by 5% for teams rich enough to pay the fine. Unless of course, the fine has to come out of the next season's budget cap, which gets a bit incestuous!
Edited by kambites on Friday 30th September 18:16
Muzzer79 said:
Highly, highly unlikely that the FIA will retrospectively change last year's results or take away Max's crown now that he's about to win this year.
Realistic justice punishment - reduction of cost cap for RB next year, suspended points deduction/exclusion and/or actual points deduction for 2023.
Most realistic punishment - heavy fine, suspended points deduction.
This will only serve to make Abu Dhabi '21 taste even more salty.....
Does giving them a fine put them even further over the budget cap?Realistic justice punishment - reduction of cost cap for RB next year, suspended points deduction/exclusion and/or actual points deduction for 2023.
Most realistic punishment - heavy fine, suspended points deduction.
This will only serve to make Abu Dhabi '21 taste even more salty.....
I’ll reserve full judgement until the rumours are confirmed (I’ve noticed that people have seemingly made their minds up that it must be true and held a kangaroo court) before condemning anyone.
If any team has breached it a suspension from this years WDC seems like a fair punishment to me.
If any team has breached it a suspension from this years WDC seems like a fair punishment to me.
Chebble said:
I’ll reserve full judgement until the rumours are confirmed (I’ve noticed that people have seemingly made their minds up that it must be true and held a kangaroo court) before condemning anyone.
If any team has breached it a suspension from this years WDC seems like a fair punishment to me.
Do you mean WDC or WCC? Suspending them from the drivers' but not the constructors' would seem odd!If any team has breached it a suspension from this years WDC seems like a fair punishment to me.
I think the "kangaroo court" is more for the FIA than Redbull - people are saying that IF Redbull have breached the cap, the FIA will almost certainly wimp out and not do anything about it.
Niponeoff said:
Muzzer79 said:
Highly, highly unlikely that the FIA will retrospectively change last year's results or take away Max's crown now that he's about to win this year.
Realistic justice punishment - reduction of cost cap for RB next year, suspended points deduction/exclusion and/or actual points deduction for 2023.
Most realistic punishment - heavy fine, suspended points deduction.
This will only serve to make Abu Dhabi '21 taste even more salty.....
Does giving them a fine put them even further over the budget cap?Realistic justice punishment - reduction of cost cap for RB next year, suspended points deduction/exclusion and/or actual points deduction for 2023.
Most realistic punishment - heavy fine, suspended points deduction.
This will only serve to make Abu Dhabi '21 taste even more salty.....
Nothing at all will happen to change any result what so ever.
Masi broke the rules last season.
Max overtook under the safety car (yeah its okay if it's only a little bit)
One of the biggest jokes in sporting history and the FIA and pundits made out like it was nothing.
They won't do anything at all for something this minor probably a clarification not to do it again.
They should have said from the start any overspend is instant dq from both championships.
Masi broke the rules last season.
Max overtook under the safety car (yeah its okay if it's only a little bit)
One of the biggest jokes in sporting history and the FIA and pundits made out like it was nothing.
They won't do anything at all for something this minor probably a clarification not to do it again.
They should have said from the start any overspend is instant dq from both championships.
kambites said:
Well that, if true, would throw a spanner in the works. If Redbull did breach the cost cap last year to a "material" degree, the FIA have a serious problem - retrospectively changing the result of the WDC would be ridiculous but so would setting the precedent that teams can ignore the budget cap and not get penalised in a way which will change the result of the championship.
In some ways, it would be ridiculous, but deducting points for the year in question is in the rules.Edited by kambites on Friday 30th September 18:16
Also, the FIA were never going to admit that their own man made a mistake last year, but I'm sure that they are quite happy to sanction RB in order to get the 'right' result.
kambites said:
Chebble said:
I’ll reserve full judgement until the rumours are confirmed (I’ve noticed that people have seemingly made their minds up that it must be true and held a kangaroo court) before condemning anyone.
If any team has breached it a suspension from this years WDC seems like a fair punishment to me.
Do you mean WDC or WCC? Suspending them from the drivers' but not the constructors' would seem odd!If any team has breached it a suspension from this years WDC seems like a fair punishment to me.
I think the "kangaroo court" is more for the FIA than Redbull - people are saying that IF Redbull have breached the cap, the FIA will almost certainly wimp out and not do anything about it.
I’ve seen lots of comments that are convinced of Red Bull’s guilt. As I say, I’ll wait until any breach has been proven.
Purely coincidental this breaks on tne weekend when the runaway driver could win the wdc, and the netflix fans dont bother with the rest of the season....
Well, it was either this or a parc ferme punch-up between two drivers a la Nascar.. or after a bad pistop, unknown, helmeted pit lane mechanics from rival teams start a push/shove match.
What will happen? Nothing will change to alter the 2021 result. Max to keep his points, but the team lose theirs (remember nobody outside the teams care about the teams championship) for 2022. Team personnel to help the fia with their latest message (drink, dont drive...). Think about the ferrari fine, rather then the €100m Mclaren fine
Well, it was either this or a parc ferme punch-up between two drivers a la Nascar.. or after a bad pistop, unknown, helmeted pit lane mechanics from rival teams start a push/shove match.
What will happen? Nothing will change to alter the 2021 result. Max to keep his points, but the team lose theirs (remember nobody outside the teams care about the teams championship) for 2022. Team personnel to help the fia with their latest message (drink, dont drive...). Think about the ferrari fine, rather then the €100m Mclaren fine
Chebble said:
Of course! WCC - I’ve never been much of a multitasker!
I’ve seen lots of comments that are convinced of Red Bull’s guilt. As I say, I’ll wait until any breach has been proven.
IF they did breach the cap (which as you say is pure speculation at the moment), I think the FIA might sort of do what you suggest using points reductions - if they docked both Redbull drivers 75 points this year, it would leave Max with a healthy lead in the WDC but Redbull some way behind in (but not completely out of) the WCC. I’ve seen lots of comments that are convinced of Red Bull’s guilt. As I say, I’ll wait until any breach has been proven.
I don't think that would really be fair on the other teams, but it's the sort of half-arsed approach that the FIA are likely to take in order to avoid ruffling too many feathers.
williamp said:
What will happen? Nothing will change to alter the 2021 result. Max to keep his points, but the team lose theirs (remember nobody outside the teams care about the teams championship) for 2022. Team personnel to help the fia with their latest message (drink, dont drive...). Think about the ferrari fine, rather then the €100m Mclaren fine
I was going to say but the team would lose all of their WCC prize money. But now we have the cost cap and teams that are funded by sponsors to the tune of the complete cost cap, the teams don't need the prize money. Chebble said:
Kevin Cozner said:
The sooner Red Bull f
k off out of F1, the better.
Or we could wait to see if, you know, it’s more than just a rumour?k off out of F1, the better.https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63089233
cc3 said:
Niponeoff said:
Muzzer79 said:
Highly, highly unlikely that the FIA will retrospectively change last year's results or take away Max's crown now that he's about to win this year.
Realistic justice punishment - reduction of cost cap for RB next year, suspended points deduction/exclusion and/or actual points deduction for 2023.
Most realistic punishment - heavy fine, suspended points deduction.
This will only serve to make Abu Dhabi '21 taste even more salty.....
Does giving them a fine put them even further over the budget cap?Realistic justice punishment - reduction of cost cap for RB next year, suspended points deduction/exclusion and/or actual points deduction for 2023.
Most realistic punishment - heavy fine, suspended points deduction.
This will only serve to make Abu Dhabi '21 taste even more salty.....
But that doesn’t mean it won’t be the ‘punishment’ that is administered……
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