Ecclestone docuseries out this month
Discussion
coppice said:
If somebody says they'd take a bullet for Putin - in 2022 for God's sake - forgive me if the subtle nuance and mischief eludes me . I loathe the fawning adoration so many show to the man , as if saying -'Oh , you know, it's just Bernie being Bernie ' was some sort of get out of jail free card . Not in my book it isn't.
I heard a recent Collecting Cars podcast where Manish Pandey was interviewed about the film . (forgive if mentioned already) . A fascinating listen - but I remain bemused why such an obviously smart and likable man as him can fall so in thrall to Ecclestone .
Absolutely. Whenever I have seen him on screen he oozes his bitterness into the room. It is a very sad indictment that someone so successful has seemingly only a nasty streak to project for all of it.I heard a recent Collecting Cars podcast where Manish Pandey was interviewed about the film . (forgive if mentioned already) . A fascinating listen - but I remain bemused why such an obviously smart and likable man as him can fall so in thrall to Ecclestone .
Edited by coppice on Thursday 5th January 07:33
HocusPocus said:
Putin has had lots of tentacles in F1, which he may have used to layer (disguise) corrupt funds in plain sight. Plenty of opportunity for Bernie to do very well out of Putin. Gérard Lopez, formerly Lotus shareholder was reported to be a Putin financier placing Russian money into deals.
So maybe Bernie's willingness to take a bullet for Putin is really him saying he has no wish to go airborne from a 5th floor hospital window or suffer some other mysterious terminal misfortune.
Probably closer to the truth. I doubt very much he would take a bullet for the man - but he knows how to say the right thing about a person in public! And tbh I'm sure Putin must know that Bernie will say what he says and why he is saying it.So maybe Bernie's willingness to take a bullet for Putin is really him saying he has no wish to go airborne from a 5th floor hospital window or suffer some other mysterious terminal misfortune.
It's all just money and influence vs a few words that Bernie can hand to the waiting press every now and again. Those words cost him nothing but their effect over the years has bought him massive wealth. I suppose we could say those words could/should cost him in terms of personal image and self respect, but I don't think he's wired to see the world that way. In fact I'm pretty sure he's gone on record saying that he knows what he's doing and what he means and he doesn't care what people think about him.
TheDeuce said:
It's all just money and influence vs a few words that Bernie can hand to the waiting press every now and again. Those words cost him nothing but their effect over the years has bought him massive wealth. I suppose we could say those words could/should cost him in terms of personal image and self respect, but I don't think he's wired to see the world that way. In fact I'm pretty sure he's gone on record saying that he knows what he's doing and what he means and he doesn't care what people think about him.
He publicised his own mugging with a picture of himself battered and bruised. You don't do that sort of thing unless you want people concerned of what they think of you?entropy said:
TheDeuce said:
It's all just money and influence vs a few words that Bernie can hand to the waiting press every now and again. Those words cost him nothing but their effect over the years has bought him massive wealth. I suppose we could say those words could/should cost him in terms of personal image and self respect, but I don't think he's wired to see the world that way. In fact I'm pretty sure he's gone on record saying that he knows what he's doing and what he means and he doesn't care what people think about him.
He publicised his own mugging with a picture of himself battered and bruised. You don't do that sort of thing unless you want people concerned of what they think of you?It's all the same thing, it's a game of what you show and why. I'm sure after the mugging he wanted to show the world what the b
ds had done and also show the muggers he could make millions out of their attack. I'm equally sure that when he speaks positively about Putin it's because he has something to gain, not because he literally wishes to take a bullet for the man - plenty of which could be volunteered if taken seriously..The guy can't help himself, whatever comes his way he'll spin and somehow present himself as the voice of decency and reason whilst walking off with another billion. For at least the last three decades he's been doing the same thing despite already having so much money he has no hope of spending it before he dies, assuming he is human and will actually die at some point. I suspect that in all this time of fraud claims and dodgy dealings he has been earning money, from the money he already had, faster than he could spend it in anycase. God knows what drives him but I really don't think it's chiefly personal image.
I obviously don't wish the old boy dead, but I suspect the obituaries and post mortem biographies will reveal some eye raising material. But anybody involved in F 1 was scared of saying much more than 'oh it's only Bernie being Bernie ' when he was at the F1 helm a, nd even now his legal firepower keeps many lips sealed I suspect .
TheDeuce said:
entropy said:
TheDeuce said:
It's all just money and influence vs a few words that Bernie can hand to the waiting press every now and again. Those words cost him nothing but their effect over the years has bought him massive wealth. I suppose we could say those words could/should cost him in terms of personal image and self respect, but I don't think he's wired to see the world that way. In fact I'm pretty sure he's gone on record saying that he knows what he's doing and what he means and he doesn't care what people think about him.
He publicised his own mugging with a picture of himself battered and bruised. You don't do that sort of thing unless you want people concerned of what they think of you?It's all the same thing, it's a game of what you show and why. I'm sure after the mugging he wanted to show the world what the b
ds had done and also show the muggers he could make millions out of their attack. I'm equally sure that when he speaks positively about Putin it's because he has something to gain, not because he literally wishes to take a bullet for the man - plenty of which could be volunteered if taken seriously..The guy can't help himself, whatever comes his way he'll spin and somehow present himself as the voice of decency and reason whilst walking off with another billion. For at least the last three decades he's been doing the same thing despite already having so much money he has no hope of spending it before he dies, assuming he is human and will actually die at some point. I suspect that in all this time of fraud claims and dodgy dealings he has been earning money, from the money he already had, faster than he could spend it in anycase. God knows what drives him but I really don't think it's chiefly personal image.
!coppice said:
I obviously don't wish the old boy dead, but I suspect the obituaries and post mortem biographies will reveal some eye raising material. But anybody involved in F 1 was scared of saying much more than 'oh it's only Bernie being Bernie ' when he was at the F1 helm a, nd even now his legal firepower keeps many lips sealed I suspect .
History in written by those that survive it. So not only will we get the previously unheard truths, but we will also get some brand new bks and spin from various people looking to put themselves in a better light when BE is no longer there to challenge them.Bernie dying is as likely to create new BS as the BS he has delivered during his life.
Edited by TheDeuce on Saturday 7th January 22:53
TheDeuce said:
coppice said:
I obviously don't wish the old boy dead, but I suspect the obituaries and post mortem biographies will reveal some eye raising material. But anybody involved in F 1 was scared of saying much more than 'oh it's only Bernie being Bernie ' when he was at the F1 helm a, nd even now his legal firepower keeps many lips sealed I suspect .
History in written by those that survive it. So not only will we get the previously unheard truths, but we will also get some brand new bks and spin from various people looking to put themselves in a better light when BE is no longer there to challenge them.Bernie dying is as likely to create new BS as the BS he has delivered during his life.
Edited by TheDeuce on Saturday 7th January 22:53
I think a lot of people overlook a lot of the good things he did, yes he was a bounder at times, but he also helped just about every team out there in some way or other, either with drivers, sponsors, or financially.
With people like him you have to take the rough with the smooth.
I do not understand why modern F1 is even remotely popular, yet it continues to boom, I literally have no clue why, it is about as dull as it has ever been to watch in terms of spectacle, albeit the cars are closer together in time, wow, watch NASCAR, the tracks are mainly incredibly boring and hard to pass on, the passing is nearly all fake, the drivers are largely automatons, the money is increasingly starting to come in from places with very questionable ethics..
But the majority do not care, coz it is all about you right, and you are having fun.
Bernie will be annoyed it did not boom on his watch, but look back over time and it really did, when you see what it was int eh early 90's, to when he left, what it is now is the icing on Bernie's cake
With people like him you have to take the rough with the smooth.
I do not understand why modern F1 is even remotely popular, yet it continues to boom, I literally have no clue why, it is about as dull as it has ever been to watch in terms of spectacle, albeit the cars are closer together in time, wow, watch NASCAR, the tracks are mainly incredibly boring and hard to pass on, the passing is nearly all fake, the drivers are largely automatons, the money is increasingly starting to come in from places with very questionable ethics..
But the majority do not care, coz it is all about you right, and you are having fun.
Bernie will be annoyed it did not boom on his watch, but look back over time and it really did, when you see what it was int eh early 90's, to when he left, what it is now is the icing on Bernie's cake
LukeBrown66 said:
I think a lot of people overlook a lot of the good things he did, yes he was a bounder at times, but he also helped just about every team out there in some way or other, either with drivers, sponsors, or financially.
Indeed there are a lot of stories of how he helped teams and individuals. vaud said:
LukeBrown66 said:
I think a lot of people overlook a lot of the good things he did, yes he was a bounder at times, but he also helped just about every team out there in some way or other, either with drivers, sponsors, or financially.
Indeed there are a lot of stories of how he helped teams and individuals. I'm not anti Bernie, he has a racers heart and of course he loves F1 and did a lot to make it truly great. But I think the help he offered each individual entity within F1 always came at the cost of him applying his influence in one way or another. Even something as simple as asking a team in need to down vote a change in the sport he didn't wish the FIA to adopt etc. It's always been about power and influence for the £££ return.
TheDeuce said:
vaud said:
LukeBrown66 said:
I think a lot of people overlook a lot of the good things he did, yes he was a bounder at times, but he also helped just about every team out there in some way or other, either with drivers, sponsors, or financially.
Indeed there are a lot of stories of how he helped teams and individuals. I'm not anti Bernie, he has a racers heart and of course he loves F1 and did a lot to make it truly great. But I think the help he offered each individual entity within F1 always came at the cost of him applying his influence in one way or another. Even something as simple as asking a team in need to down vote a change in the sport he didn't wish the FIA to adopt etc. It's always been about power and influence for the £££ return.
Don't fool yourself otherwise.
TheDeuce said:
Out of the goodness of his heart. Or... Because he carefully manipulated the F1 machine to keep the teams in place and everyone more or less happy?
I'm not anti Bernie, he has a racers heart and of course he loves F1 and did a lot to make it truly great. But I think the help he offered each individual entity within F1 always came at the cost of him applying his influence in one way or another. Even something as simple as asking a team in need to down vote a change in the sport he didn't wish the FIA to adopt etc. It's always been about power and influence for the £££ return.
IIRC when someone on the pitwall's wife was taken ill Bernie offered his private plane to get them home ASAP.I'm not anti Bernie, he has a racers heart and of course he loves F1 and did a lot to make it truly great. But I think the help he offered each individual entity within F1 always came at the cost of him applying his influence in one way or another. Even something as simple as asking a team in need to down vote a change in the sport he didn't wish the FIA to adopt etc. It's always been about power and influence for the £££ return.
I think like Schumacher and Senna he is has a "winning" mindset but also capable of quiet acts of generosity and kindness. He just kept them quiet.
I am not saying he was a saint, he clearly was not, but his general approach was always to try and improve things, if he benefits then fair enough in my view, I would also think LIberty are benefitting in all sorts of ways right now, and are up to their neck in deals and the like.
He was a scoundrel in every way, but his importance and influence should not be ignored just because of that alone, there are plenty if people in F1 who have done awful things aswell, it attracts that type of person at times.
He was a scoundrel in every way, but his importance and influence should not be ignored just because of that alone, there are plenty if people in F1 who have done awful things aswell, it attracts that type of person at times.
vaud said:
TheDeuce said:
Out of the goodness of his heart. Or... Because he carefully manipulated the F1 machine to keep the teams in place and everyone more or less happy?
I'm not anti Bernie, he has a racers heart and of course he loves F1 and did a lot to make it truly great. But I think the help he offered each individual entity within F1 always came at the cost of him applying his influence in one way or another. Even something as simple as asking a team in need to down vote a change in the sport he didn't wish the FIA to adopt etc. It's always been about power and influence for the £££ return.
IIRC when someone on the pitwall's wife was taken ill Bernie offered his private plane to get them home ASAP.I'm not anti Bernie, he has a racers heart and of course he loves F1 and did a lot to make it truly great. But I think the help he offered each individual entity within F1 always came at the cost of him applying his influence in one way or another. Even something as simple as asking a team in need to down vote a change in the sport he didn't wish the FIA to adopt etc. It's always been about power and influence for the £££ return.
I think like Schumacher and Senna he is has a "winning" mindset but also capable of quiet acts of generosity and kindness. He just kept them quiet.
I'm quite pleasant and generous when I'm not at work trying to sneak an advantage in whatever I do
daqinggregg said:
I’m not sure what to make of it.
Confessional, I was a bad ass dealer.
Stick it to the Frenchies.
I taught F1 how to monetize the sport.
lest you forget about me.
There is no doubt, he’s a very successful and driven individual. What his motive for this is, I’m unsure.
He is not the instigator of the documentary....listen to the Manish Pandey interview on Inside Line F1 PodcastConfessional, I was a bad ass dealer.
Stick it to the Frenchies.
I taught F1 how to monetize the sport.
lest you forget about me.
There is no doubt, he’s a very successful and driven individual. What his motive for this is, I’m unsure.
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