Official 2021 Saudi Arabia Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
honda_exige said:
Carlososos said:
jsf said:
Even Ralf Schumacher thinks Max is out of line.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/14683211474...
The only people who don’t are max, red bull and channel 4. Well, and max fans but even most have agreed it was too much. https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/14683211474...
Absolutely crackers.
PhilAsia said:
That raises Max's actions to the level of "most bizarre" then, which is most reasonable people's thoughts. Quite a fair analysis overall by them.
I think neither of their actions were bizarre, both were well calculated. In Hamilton’s case, initially to avoid risk of crash (either due to debris or being taken out) and then to avoid gaining but immediately losing a place due to DRS. In Verstappen’s case calculated to avoid any actual penalty resulting from his inaccurate overtaking manoeuvre. But executing a very dangerous manoeuvre to achieve that. I struggle to see how any impartial racing fan could defend that action by Max and not feel he is fortunate to have not caused a more serious accident and to come away with 18 points from that race. ddom said:
Adrian W said:
There are rules. And despite all the protestations from all the internet experts the races are not policed via proxy.
No, they are just not policed at all, or policed very very leniently for just one driver on the grid, who is actually becoming more and more dangerous. Most people watch sporting events to see the skills and competition being played out by the best of the best, not one competitor being given carte blanch to ignore the rules and end up seriously hurting someone, if not worse.
Your comments and support of Max are becoming more and more bizarre and desperate by the day. A bit like Max's actions.
Am I a Hamilton fan? Not especially - I admire his talent and there is no denying he is one of the best drivers of all time, but I would happily see Lando, CLC, DR, Alonso or even Gasly win the title over him - but Max - no way, he taints the sport for me. Sadly he is in with a very good shout of doing it.
HustleRussell said:
honda_exige said:
If I was Karting or on a trackday and the person in front started weirdly lifting off I when they should be flat, I would most definitely not tuck up further and further behind them. I would pull out way to the left to see what's going on ahead then go past.
If I was an F1 driver I would be past like a shot given no yellows, especially if I've been moaning on the radio that the guy ahead needs to give the place back.
You're not taking yourself seriously here are you? If I was an F1 driver I would be past like a shot given no yellows, especially if I've been moaning on the radio that the guy ahead needs to give the place back.
For all the various opinions, views and interpretations here, for the final race I want to see the two protagonists fight it out wheel to wheel and as assertive/aggressive as they want within the rules. May the best man win.
Lewis has demonstrated on many occasions that he can do this. Max hasn’t. The FIA have not been enforcing rules properly or consistently. This concerns me and the risk is a farcical end to the season.
Lewis has demonstrated on many occasions that he can do this. Max hasn’t. The FIA have not been enforcing rules properly or consistently. This concerns me and the risk is a farcical end to the season.
NA3pedals said:
I struggle to see how any impartial racing fan could defend that action by Max and not feel he is fortunate to have not caused a more serious accident and to come away with 18 points from that race.
Where on earth do you get the impression that any impartial fan is defending Max… :-)All we have is a handful of ultra biased people trying to deflect from what Max did. It’s like blaming someone who gets mugged for living in the wrong part of town. I’m utterly amazed by what has been written by some.
Pretty simple for me:
Max knows he has to give the place back.
Max wants to do it before the DRS line so he can slipstream back past Lewis afterwards
Lewis thinks "not on your nelly" and holds back, planning to go past after the DRS line.
Max thinks "yes on your nelly" and slams the brakes on, intending to force Hamilton to overtake him.
Both knew exactly what they were doing and behaving tactically.
Max shouldn't have slammed the brakes on with a car behind him. I don't think he intended for Lewis to hit him but, because he's a stubborn what-not, he wasn't having things not being done his way.
Dick-move by Max.
Max knows he has to give the place back.
Max wants to do it before the DRS line so he can slipstream back past Lewis afterwards
Lewis thinks "not on your nelly" and holds back, planning to go past after the DRS line.
Max thinks "yes on your nelly" and slams the brakes on, intending to force Hamilton to overtake him.
Both knew exactly what they were doing and behaving tactically.
Max shouldn't have slammed the brakes on with a car behind him. I don't think he intended for Lewis to hit him but, because he's a stubborn what-not, he wasn't having things not being done his way.
Dick-move by Max.
Muzzer79 said:
Pretty simple for me:
Dick-move by Max.
This one was such a high grade / top draw dick move that even Horner and Marko didn’t believe Max would have done it. So they confidently proclaimed Max didn’t brake (after all, who would be so stupid as to jump on the brakes in that scenario). Dick-move by Max.
Siao said:
HustleRussell said:
honda_exige said:
If I was Karting or on a trackday and the person in front started weirdly lifting off I when they should be flat, I would most definitely not tuck up further and further behind them. I would pull out way to the left to see what's going on ahead then go past.
If I was an F1 driver I would be past like a shot given no yellows, especially if I've been moaning on the radio that the guy ahead needs to give the place back.
You're not taking yourself seriously here are you? If I was an F1 driver I would be past like a shot given no yellows, especially if I've been moaning on the radio that the guy ahead needs to give the place back.
The outcome on the road at 0.7G to 0.8G would be a serious rear collision. The outcome on the the track at 2.4G (and the following distance shrinking even more rapidly) would be the same.
Many do not seem to realise just how rapidly F1 cars slow down (or road cars for that matter) and that only a superhuman reaction time would avoid the collision that we were witness to. LH - despite being almost superhuman - did what 100% of all drivers would have done in the same situation...collided!
RacerMike said:
JayK12 said:
MarkwG said:
JayK12 said:
Seems like this is only big news because Max is in a championship fight. Surely we have all seen this just how he drives and always has, including being hot headed. He even drives like this in sim racing, example here, goes up the inside of the bridge relying on them to back out then dives the Ferrari into T1 knowing he will run wide then into the chicane runs another car off the road. Its the way he races and thinks its perfectly acceptable, lunge run opponent off track and crack on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUm6zk3wWew
Thing is, sims ain't real life: in the world where he's fighting for an F1 WC, there are consequences, & those consequences might be penalties, DNF, DNQ, or fatal. If, perhaps, you're suggesting he can't tell the difference, that speaks volumes about his suitability to drive an F1 car. Reminds me of the apocryphal Nürburgring story about the lad being pulled from the wreckage of his Clio, mumbling, "I don't get it, that corner's flat on my Playstation"...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUm6zk3wWew
(not saying he was right to punt the Ferrari off btw. Just that I’ve had far far worse done to me on there on a regular basis)PhilAsia said:
Siao said:
HustleRussell said:
honda_exige said:
If I was Karting or on a trackday and the person in front started weirdly lifting off I when they should be flat, I would most definitely not tuck up further and further behind them. I would pull out way to the left to see what's going on ahead then go past.
If I was an F1 driver I would be past like a shot given no yellows, especially if I've been moaning on the radio that the guy ahead needs to give the place back.
You're not taking yourself seriously here are you? If I was an F1 driver I would be past like a shot given no yellows, especially if I've been moaning on the radio that the guy ahead needs to give the place back.
The outcome on the road at 0.7G to 0.8G would be a serious rear collision. The outcome on the the track at 2.4G (and the following distance shrinking even more rapidly) would be the same.
Many do not seem to realise just how rapidly F1 cars slow down (or road cars for that matter) and that only a superhuman reaction time would avoid the collision that we were witness to. LH - despite being almost superhuman - did what 100% of all drivers would have done in the same situation...collided!
I do agree with the rest of your post though, Max slammed on the brakes with someone else so close behind him that he could smell what he had for breakfast. Idiotic from Max, I just wish he had the guts to put his hand up and accept it.
I read something else yesterday that re-enforced my belief that it was in a way just bad timing; apparently just at the moment of impact Mercedes was telling Lewis that he was being given the position back. It is very possible that Max thought that Lewis had been informed of his intention of giving the position back and he was playing silly bugger with the DRS zone, so he tried to force him to overtake by braking. Doesn't take from the fact that Max had a brainfart
So all is OK now as Marco has "apologised" for saying Max did not brake on the straight.. When will the RB management learn to engage brain before spouting off about how wonderful their driver is and how everyone else is to blame for any incident involving their "driving god". The shame in all this is that the bulls
t and consistent "let me through or we will crash" approach of Max is detracting from his ability to consistently out perform the performance of the RB car he is driving. Let's hope (but I am not optimistic) that we have a clean race at the weekend. It may distract from the bizarre behavoir of the FIA this season!!!
t and consistent "let me through or we will crash" approach of Max is detracting from his ability to consistently out perform the performance of the RB car he is driving. Let's hope (but I am not optimistic) that we have a clean race at the weekend. It may distract from the bizarre behavoir of the FIA this season!!!Muzzer79 said:
Pretty simple for me:
Max knows he has to give the place back.
Max wants to do it before the DRS line so he can slipstream back past Lewis afterwards
Lewis thinks "not on your nelly" and holds back, planning to go past after the DRS line.
Max thinks "yes on your nelly" and slams the brakes on, intending to force Hamilton to overtake him.
Both knew exactly what they were doing and behaving tactically.
Max shouldn't have slammed the brakes on with a car behind him. I don't think he intended for Lewis to hit him but, because he's a stubborn what-not, he wasn't having things not being done his way.
Dick-move by Max.
Yep, and why won't both drivers admit to this. Lewis knows all the tricks too, perhaps the first moment or two he was unsure as he had not been told Max was letting him past but I expect he sussed pretty quickly and knew the DRS line was close up ahead. When Lewis hit Max he was pulling out to pass, I expect he decided it was a stupid game and to just go for it and hope to get enough acceleration so Max could not pass even with DRS.Max knows he has to give the place back.
Max wants to do it before the DRS line so he can slipstream back past Lewis afterwards
Lewis thinks "not on your nelly" and holds back, planning to go past after the DRS line.
Max thinks "yes on your nelly" and slams the brakes on, intending to force Hamilton to overtake him.
Both knew exactly what they were doing and behaving tactically.
Max shouldn't have slammed the brakes on with a car behind him. I don't think he intended for Lewis to hit him but, because he's a stubborn what-not, he wasn't having things not being done his way.
Dick-move by Max.
iandc said:
So all is OK now as Marco has "apologised" for saying Max did not brake on the straight.. When will the RB management learn to engage brain before spouting off about how wonderful their driver is and how everyone else is to blame for any incident involving their "driving god". The shame in all this is that the bullst and consistent "let me through or we will crash" approach of Max is detracting from his ability to consistently out perform the performance of the RB car he is driving. Let's hope (but I am not optimistic) that we have a clean race at the weekend. It may distract from the bizarre behavoir of the FIA this season!!!
It's an interesting apology, though - t and consistent "let me through or we will crash" approach of Max is detracting from his ability to consistently out perform the performance of the RB car he is driving. Let's hope (but I am not optimistic) that we have a clean race at the weekend. It may distract from the bizarre behavoir of the FIA this season!!!"At the time of the television interviews, I passed on exactly the information that I had received from the engineers beforehand. They were obviously not correct, so I'm sorry for that."
I appreciate he's not in his first language but it could be read that he's sorry the engineers were not correct about the braking, rather than sorry he made the comments without knowing the truth - & it says nothing about him being sorry his driver brake tested the guy behind...
MarkwG said:
iandc said:
So all is OK now as Marco has "apologised" for saying Max did not brake on the straight.. When will the RB management learn to engage brain before spouting off about how wonderful their driver is and how everyone else is to blame for any incident involving their "driving god". The shame in all this is that the bullst and consistent "let me through or we will crash" approach of Max is detracting from his ability to consistently out perform the performance of the RB car he is driving. Let's hope (but I am not optimistic) that we have a clean race at the weekend. It may distract from the bizarre behavoir of the FIA this season!!!
It's an interesting apology, though - t and consistent "let me through or we will crash" approach of Max is detracting from his ability to consistently out perform the performance of the RB car he is driving. Let's hope (but I am not optimistic) that we have a clean race at the weekend. It may distract from the bizarre behavoir of the FIA this season!!!"At the time of the television interviews, I passed on exactly the information that I had received from the engineers beforehand. They were obviously not correct, so I'm sorry for that."
I appreciate he's not in his first language but it could be read that he's sorry the engineers were not correct about the braking, rather than sorry he made the comments without knowing the truth - & it says nothing about him being sorry his driver brake tested the guy behind...
The more you see it, and the more you hear about it, the worse it looks.
It’s only the result of the race that has made it slightly less controversial.
If Lewis had been forced to drive around slowly and pit for a new wing, Mercedes would absolutely have been saying that Max should recieive a black flag, and with some justification too.
Anyone who have ever seen a blue flag, knows where, when and how one driver lets another past. The team message of ‘strategically’, suggests a prior discussion, and thus a pre-meditated action of slowing down significantly on a fast and narrow part of the circuit.
It’s only the result of the race that has made it slightly less controversial.
If Lewis had been forced to drive around slowly and pit for a new wing, Mercedes would absolutely have been saying that Max should recieive a black flag, and with some justification too.
Anyone who have ever seen a blue flag, knows where, when and how one driver lets another past. The team message of ‘strategically’, suggests a prior discussion, and thus a pre-meditated action of slowing down significantly on a fast and narrow part of the circuit.
M5-911 said:
The first red flag was very strange in its timing. I truly believe that it was triggered by the FIA to bring back Max to a decent position as he would have maybe struggled to make a podium finish. All for the show.
didn't it take them another 8 minutes to decide it was fine? ...thats 3 laps behind the safety carM5-911 said:
The first red flag was very strange in its timing. I truly believe that it was triggered by the FIA to bring back Max to a decent position as he would have maybe struggled to make a podium finish. All for the show.
The strange thing was that the stoppage was less than 20 minutes, including the mandatory 10 minutes’ notice to competitors of the restart. They barely had time to run for a pee. So, if it only took them 10 minutes to replace the barrier, why not just choose to run another three laps behind the SC?
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