Official 2021 Saudi Arabia Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
Siao said:
PhilAsia said:
Siao said:
HustleRussell said:
honda_exige said:
If I was Karting or on a trackday and the person in front started weirdly lifting off I when they should be flat, I would most definitely not tuck up further and further behind them. I would pull out way to the left to see what's going on ahead then go past.
If I was an F1 driver I would be past like a shot given no yellows, especially if I've been moaning on the radio that the guy ahead needs to give the place back.
You're not taking yourself seriously here are you? If I was an F1 driver I would be past like a shot given no yellows, especially if I've been moaning on the radio that the guy ahead needs to give the place back.
The outcome on the road at 0.7G to 0.8G would be a serious rear collision. The outcome on the the track at 2.4G (and the following distance shrinking even more rapidly) would be the same.
Many do not seem to realise just how rapidly F1 cars slow down (or road cars for that matter) and that only a superhuman reaction time would avoid the collision that we were witness to. LH - despite being almost superhuman - did what 100% of all drivers would have done in the same situation...collided!
I do agree with the rest of your post though, Max slammed on the brakes with someone else so close behind him that he could smell what he had for breakfast. Idiotic from Max, I just wish he had the guts to put his hand up and accept it.
I read something else yesterday that re-enforced my belief that it was in a way just bad timing; apparently just at the moment of impact Mercedes was telling Lewis that he was being given the position back. It is very possible that Max thought that Lewis had been informed of his intention of giving the position back and he was playing silly bugger with the DRS zone, so he tried to force him to overtake by braking. Doesn't take from the fact that Max had a brainfart
Sandpit Steve said:
The more you see it, and the more you hear about it, the worse it looks.
It’s only the result of the race that has made it slightly less controversial.
If Lewis had been forced to drive around slowly and pit for a new wing, Mercedes would absolutely have been saying that Max should recieive a black flag, and with some justification too.
Anyone who have ever seen a blue flag, knows where, when and how one driver lets another past. The team message of ‘strategically’, suggests a prior discussion, and thus a pre-meditated action of slowing down significantly on a fast and narrow part of the circuit.
Add the result at Brazil making the "guided tour through the Favelas" less controversial too.It’s only the result of the race that has made it slightly less controversial.
If Lewis had been forced to drive around slowly and pit for a new wing, Mercedes would absolutely have been saying that Max should recieive a black flag, and with some justification too.
Anyone who have ever seen a blue flag, knows where, when and how one driver lets another past. The team message of ‘strategically’, suggests a prior discussion, and thus a pre-meditated action of slowing down significantly on a fast and narrow part of the circuit.
Hungrymc said:
And let’s not forget. Max wasn’t even holding a consistent line, he drifted left as Lewis closed in slightly to the left.
It’s amazing that some still want to deflect from Max’s ridiculous actions.
All came down to petulance because Lewis didn’t play Max’s game as Max wanted it playing. That’s the attitude the deflection and unwavering support even when the evidence shows there is a clear problem that needs to be addressed creates.
Max needs better coaching and leadership.
Max's driving has got him leading the WDC with one race to go. Why would he change? It’s amazing that some still want to deflect from Max’s ridiculous actions.
All came down to petulance because Lewis didn’t play Max’s game as Max wanted it playing. That’s the attitude the deflection and unwavering support even when the evidence shows there is a clear problem that needs to be addressed creates.
Max needs better coaching and leadership.
Aside from Silverstone, have any of his antics this season has dented his title bid?
Max is an expert at creating an element of doubt with his driving to avoid a material penalty.
I'm sure the stewards clearly remember the grief they got after giving Vettel a 5 second penalty for rejoining the track dangerously in Canada. They bottled out of giving LeClerc a penalty for squeezing Lewis off the track at Monza and they bottled it with Max in Brazil.
Max knows this and is exploiting it to the full.
PhilAsia said:
Siao said:
PhilAsia said:
Siao said:
HustleRussell said:
honda_exige said:
If I was Karting or on a trackday and the person in front started weirdly lifting off I when they should be flat, I would most definitely not tuck up further and further behind them. I would pull out way to the left to see what's going on ahead then go past.
If I was an F1 driver I would be past like a shot given no yellows, especially if I've been moaning on the radio that the guy ahead needs to give the place back.
You're not taking yourself seriously here are you? If I was an F1 driver I would be past like a shot given no yellows, especially if I've been moaning on the radio that the guy ahead needs to give the place back.
The outcome on the road at 0.7G to 0.8G would be a serious rear collision. The outcome on the the track at 2.4G (and the following distance shrinking even more rapidly) would be the same.
Many do not seem to realise just how rapidly F1 cars slow down (or road cars for that matter) and that only a superhuman reaction time would avoid the collision that we were witness to. LH - despite being almost superhuman - did what 100% of all drivers would have done in the same situation...collided!
I do agree with the rest of your post though, Max slammed on the brakes with someone else so close behind him that he could smell what he had for breakfast. Idiotic from Max, I just wish he had the guts to put his hand up and accept it.
I read something else yesterday that re-enforced my belief that it was in a way just bad timing; apparently just at the moment of impact Mercedes was telling Lewis that he was being given the position back. It is very possible that Max thought that Lewis had been informed of his intention of giving the position back and he was playing silly bugger with the DRS zone, so he tried to force him to overtake by braking. Doesn't take from the fact that Max had a brainfart
Sandpit Steve said:
The strange thing was that the stoppage was less than 20 minutes, including the mandatory 10 minutes’ notice to competitors of the restart. They barely had time to run for a pee.
So, if it only took them 10 minutes to replace the barrier, why not just choose to run another three laps behind the SC?
Maybe they needed to get a telehandler on track to replace the barrier, and didn't want to do that with a live race track?So, if it only took them 10 minutes to replace the barrier, why not just choose to run another three laps behind the SC?
Or look at it another way, it took them 10 minutes to replace the barrier on an empty track...who knows how long it would have taken them if there was a train of 19 cars coming past them every 3 minutes?
LeoSayer said:
Max is an expert at creating an element of doubt with his driving to avoid a material penalty.
No, the ONLY thing happening is that strange decisions are being made about the incidents - see Brazil for a WTF...The penalties being applied (or not even applied) do not appear to reflect the situation IMHO.
MontyPythonX said:
Maybe they needed to get a telehandler on track to replace the barrier, and didn't want to do that with a live race track?
Or look at it another way, it took them 10 minutes to replace the barrier on an empty track...who knows how long it would have taken them if there was a train of 19 cars coming past them every 3 minutes?
i have to watch again, but iirc they didn't replace anythingOr look at it another way, it took them 10 minutes to replace the barrier on an empty track...who knows how long it would have taken them if there was a train of 19 cars coming past them every 3 minutes?
I think there will be a few lawyers rubbing their hands together after this season’s display.
F1 is always trying to attract big manufacturers to the sport because it helps with its big-time, top-dog image.
These manufacturers might be less likely to invest zillions if they thought that there is someone with their thumb on the scales if they got too successful.
F1 is always trying to attract big manufacturers to the sport because it helps with its big-time, top-dog image.
These manufacturers might be less likely to invest zillions if they thought that there is someone with their thumb on the scales if they got too successful.
angrymoby said:
MontyPythonX said:
Maybe they needed to get a telehandler on track to replace the barrier, and didn't want to do that with a live race track?
Or look at it another way, it took them 10 minutes to replace the barrier on an empty track...who knows how long it would have taken them if there was a train of 19 cars coming past them every 3 minutes?
i have to watch again, but iirc they didn't replace anythingOr look at it another way, it took them 10 minutes to replace the barrier on an empty track...who knows how long it would have taken them if there was a train of 19 cars coming past them every 3 minutes?
The modern TechPro barriers are made of various exotic plastics, are not designed to be hit hard twice, and are intertwined in a specific way to manage the impact sequence. It’s all more complicated that one might imagine.
That the replacement and realignment of the barrier was required was not a surprise, it was mentioned by several posters on this thread as the crash happened,. The surprise is the combination of how quickly the work was done, in conjunction with the red flag decision. The barrrier is some distance from the actual track, so there was plenty of room to get vehicles in the area if required.
Sandpit Steve said:
I’m not sure we ever actually saw a shot of the repair in progress.
The modern TechPro barriers are made of various exotic plastics, are not designed to be hit hard twice, and are intertwined in a specific way to manage the impact sequence. It’s all more complicated that one might imagine.
That the replacement and realignment of the barrier was required was not a surprise, it was mentioned by several posters on this thread as the crash happened,. The surprise is the combination of how quickly the work was done, in conjunction with the red flag decision. The barrrier is some distance from the actual track, so there was plenty of room to get vehicles in the area if required.
I dont think anyone has an issue with a Red to repair a barrier.The modern TechPro barriers are made of various exotic plastics, are not designed to be hit hard twice, and are intertwined in a specific way to manage the impact sequence. It’s all more complicated that one might imagine.
That the replacement and realignment of the barrier was required was not a surprise, it was mentioned by several posters on this thread as the crash happened,. The surprise is the combination of how quickly the work was done, in conjunction with the red flag decision. The barrrier is some distance from the actual track, so there was plenty of room to get vehicles in the area if required.
Why did they need 9 minutes to asses if a red was required, they threw a red for Leclerc in seconds for an identical impact and knew full well what would be required in this case. We talked about that one place all weekend.
angrymoby said:
M5-911 said:
The first red flag was very strange in its timing. I truly believe that it was triggered by the FIA to bring back Max to a decent position as he would have maybe struggled to make a podium finish. All for the show.
didn't it take them another 8 minutes to decide it was fine? ...thats 3 laps behind the safety carLeoSayer said:
Max's driving has got him leading the WDC with one race to go. Why would he change? .
Is a fair question. And that’s why we are all saying his terrible conduct is being enabled by his network and the weak officiating.
With a calmer head he would have this already wrapped up. In Saudi, he came second despite 4 penalties in one race, in a car that looks like it should have been on pole by 3 tenths of a second. That looks like a car capable of winning.
LeoSayer said:
Hungrymc said:
And let’s not forget. Max wasn’t even holding a consistent line, he drifted left as Lewis closed in slightly to the left.
It’s amazing that some still want to deflect from Max’s ridiculous actions.
All came down to petulance because Lewis didn’t play Max’s game as Max wanted it playing. That’s the attitude the deflection and unwavering support even when the evidence shows there is a clear problem that needs to be addressed creates.
Max needs better coaching and leadership.
Max's driving has got him leading the WDC with one race to go. Why would he change? It’s amazing that some still want to deflect from Max’s ridiculous actions.
All came down to petulance because Lewis didn’t play Max’s game as Max wanted it playing. That’s the attitude the deflection and unwavering support even when the evidence shows there is a clear problem that needs to be addressed creates.
Max needs better coaching and leadership.
Aside from Silverstone, have any of his antics this season has dented his title bid?
Max is an expert at creating an element of doubt with his driving to avoid a material penalty.
I'm sure the stewards clearly remember the grief they got after giving Vettel a 5 second penalty for rejoining the track dangerously in Canada. They bottled out of giving LeClerc a penalty for squeezing Lewis off the track at Monza and they bottled it with Max in Brazil.
Max knows this and is exploiting it to the full.
MarkwG said:
LeoSayer said:
Hungrymc said:
And let’s not forget. Max wasn’t even holding a consistent line, he drifted left as Lewis closed in slightly to the left.
It’s amazing that some still want to deflect from Max’s ridiculous actions.
All came down to petulance because Lewis didn’t play Max’s game as Max wanted it playing. That’s the attitude the deflection and unwavering support even when the evidence shows there is a clear problem that needs to be addressed creates.
Max needs better coaching and leadership.
Max's driving has got him leading the WDC with one race to go. Why would he change? It’s amazing that some still want to deflect from Max’s ridiculous actions.
All came down to petulance because Lewis didn’t play Max’s game as Max wanted it playing. That’s the attitude the deflection and unwavering support even when the evidence shows there is a clear problem that needs to be addressed creates.
Max needs better coaching and leadership.
Aside from Silverstone, have any of his antics this season has dented his title bid?
Max is an expert at creating an element of doubt with his driving to avoid a material penalty.
I'm sure the stewards clearly remember the grief they got after giving Vettel a 5 second penalty for rejoining the track dangerously in Canada. They bottled out of giving LeClerc a penalty for squeezing Lewis off the track at Monza and they bottled it with Max in Brazil.
Max knows this and is exploiting it to the full.
The ridiculous lunge at Monza, but you could argue this was actually in Max's favour.
Headline: Marko apologises, accepts Max did brake on Hamilton
“At the time of the television interview, I passed on exactly the information I had previously received from the engineers,” he told f1-insider.com.
“They obviously weren’t right, so I’m sorry.”
https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-saudi-a...
The teams receive data in real-time and a 2.4g application of the brakes, on that part of the circuit, would stand out like sore thumb. A big spike on the graph where there shouldn't be one.
Does Marko expect us to believe his engineers are unable to interpret their own data correctly, or that they lied to him...?
“At the time of the television interview, I passed on exactly the information I had previously received from the engineers,” he told f1-insider.com.
“They obviously weren’t right, so I’m sorry.”
https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-saudi-a...
The teams receive data in real-time and a 2.4g application of the brakes, on that part of the circuit, would stand out like sore thumb. A big spike on the graph where there shouldn't be one.
Does Marko expect us to believe his engineers are unable to interpret their own data correctly, or that they lied to him...?
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