Christian Horner

[TheDeuce]

Wills2 said:

Jos can jog on who is going to take that violent wife beater intervening in this situation, If I was Horner I'd be getting a PR hatchet job done on him it's hilarious that he thinks anyone wants to hear what he has to say.

Threatening to pull Max out, well do it then every driver will have their hand up to become the next WDC,

I think that has to be the general sentiment - ps off Jos.

Horner hasn't exactly come out of this in a good light, but in terms of doing his job, he does it well. Jos does... Nothing in F1 anymore, unless I've missed something.

I agree, call his bluff. Tell him to take his grown up son away, which is just a weird idea in itself. God knows what he thinks will happen for Max once he's made his point and taken him out of the best car on the grid

Call his bluff, if he sticks to his guns he'll look a plonker. If he backs down and shuts up he'll be revealed as weak and full of st. I'd be happy with either. I want real heroes and villains in F1, not some blokes Dad mooching around with a set of entirely irrelevant opinions and demands.

[GPH]

blackmme said:

So quite simply money for Max and the power to decide who RBR revolves around.

I’m pretty certain this is it….

Edited by blackmme on Sunday 3rd March 20:16

I don't think it's anything to do with Max.
The team already revolves around him, he is paid a fortune and has a contract until 2028?
It's about CH wanting the power to make the final decisions and other people trying to stop it happening.
Empire building.
Simple as that.
If people get trampled on in the scrum well never mind.
Seen it all before in F1 many times.

Seen it in business ... just ask Carlos Ghosn !!!
He ending up in a packing case for wanting to merge Nissan and Renault closer.

Edited by GPH on Sunday 3rd March 20:31

[TheDeuce]

thegreenhell said:

86 said:

If max remains as far in front as in Bahrain for most of season it’s easy for him to walk away. He’s a racer and there’s certainly not going to be a lot of racing this year. So he might welcome a new challenge in another team for double the money

A true racer wouldn't give up a dominant position for money, not when they're already loaded for life. He could just as easily ask the team for a faster teammate to challenge him if he's that bothered about a challenge.

If Max were to walk, I'm thinking Lewis or Fred might just take on that car for a year free of charge!

[Jasandjules]

DonkeyApple said:

Such as? Not trying to be awkward but you can't really base anything on what is a chosen selection of a larger data set, especially given the nature of their publication, the lack of wider context and their potential origins.

What you can see is that the two adults partook in some level of wkery. You can see that CH has the skills of a mid level, live with mother accountant, possibly with the penis of a Jack Russell. But you can't really see much beyond that because of the nature of the data.

Well, I have only had a cursory view of a few of the messages. There are some interesting lines of thought that arise.

1. They had what appears to be a consensual and physical relationship at some stage
2. At some stage she was then put into lower level hotels and different flights
3. At some stage it appeared to be hinted if she didn't like it she could leave
4. At some stage it appears she told him to leave her be, and he continued the conduct.
5. He is her boss. We all understand what power plays come in on that basis which is exactly why such relationships are unwise to say the least.
6. Given 5, 2 and 3 apply rather more. Then add 4 into the mix and, well.....

Now, that is a reasonably clear issue in my view that ought to lead to a dismissal. IF it were a more junior set of employees I am 99% sure he would have been gone within a week. However, as we know, companies look at other factors. For example, risk/reward - what could she get at Tribunal and which employee do they value the most?.... I can also say that whilst a lawyer may suggest that is a sackable issue etc or even recommend it, the final decision rests with the company. I have more, more than once told a company that they can do X or Y, X will likely result in a Tribunal which they will lose. They still do X......

[Kart16]

Maybe people here are exaggerating Jos' influence on his son TODAY.

First of all, a few years ago Jos was SUSPENDED by Red Bull from attending a few races. AFAIK even Max agreed with that (he knows his father is a bit crazy).

Second of all, Raymond Vermeulen, Max's manager, takes care of Max for everything not related to driving, from contracts to media and even personal finance. Max listens to his father on the sport side, that's true, but I don't think he would leave Red Bull or engage with his father in a plot against Christian Horner.

One thing's for sure, Jos is a psychopath but his son is not.

[p1stonhead]

Kart16 said:

Maybe people here are exaggerating Jos' influence on his son TODAY.

First of all, a few years ago Jos was SUSPENDED by Red Bull from attending a few races. AFAIK even Max agreed with that (he knows his father is a bit crazy).

Second of all, Raymond Vermeulen, Max's manager, takes care of Max for everything not related to driving, from contracts to media and even personal finance. Max listens to his father on the sport side, that's true, but I don't think he would leave Red Bull or engage with his father in a plot against Christian Horner.

One thing's for sure, Jos is a psychopath but his son is not.

And yet he is out saying he might take his son out of RB and Max hasn’t said anything.

[super7]

Kart16 said:

Maybe people here are exaggerating Jos' influence on his son TODAY.

First of all, a few years ago Jos was SUSPENDED by Red Bull from attending a few races. AFAIK even Max agreed with that (he knows his father is a bit crazy).

Second of all, Raymond Vermeulen, Max's manager, takes care of Max for everything not related to driving, from contracts to media and even personal finance. Max listens to his father on the sport side, that's true, but I don't think he would leave Red Bull or engage with his father in a plot against Christian Horner.

One thing's for sure, Jos is a psychopath but his son is not.

Max needs to be saved from his Dad before it’s too late….

[Wills2]

TheDeuce said:

Wills2 said:

Jos can jog on who is going to take that violent wife beater intervening in this situation, If I was Horner I'd be getting a PR hatchet job done on him it's hilarious that he thinks anyone wants to hear what he has to say.

Threatening to pull Max out, well do it then every driver will have their hand up to become the next WDC,

I think that has to be the general sentiment - ps off Jos.

Horner hasn't exactly come out of this in a good light, but in terms of doing his job, he does it well. Jos does... Nothing in F1 anymore, unless I've missed something.

I agree, call his bluff. Tell him to take his grown up son away, which is just a weird idea in itself. God knows what he thinks will happen for Max once he's made his point and taken him out of the best car on the grid

Call his bluff, if he sticks to his guns he'll look a plonker. If he backs down and shuts up he'll be revealed as weak and full of st. I'd be happy with either. I want real heroes and villains in F1, not some blokes Dad mooching around with a set of entirely irrelevant opinions and demands.

To me it makes a complete mockery of the situation and I find it pretty hard to swallow hearing that Toto is chatting away to Jos as well, the mans a monster yet apparently can waltz around the paddock and that is totally inline with F1's principles towards women.

I mean just look at this lot:

"In 2008, Verstappen was then reportedly hit with a three-month suspended sentence for threatening Sophie Kumpen, who is Max’s mother, and violating a previously-issued restraining order."

"In November 2011, Verstappen denied allegations he assaulted an unnamed 24-year-old girlfriend in a hotel room in Venlo, Holland."

"In January 2012, he was arrested for attempted murder following claims that he drove a car into his ex-girlfriend in the Dutch city of Roermond."

How is he allowed to even think about sharing his opinion.

[drdel]

If JV forces his son out of RB what team would want to take on the hassle of working with JV?

[520TORQUES]

super7 said:

cgt2 said:

520TORQUES said:

Newey was around in F1 and other series long before Williams and his job under Patrick Head.

Capelli nearly won in France in the Leyton House!

And that was a stunning car….!!!!!!

The team folded as part of the largest fraud in Japanese history when the worlds 4th largest bank, Fuji Bank was found to be fraudulent.
F1 and shady money are never far apart.

[vdn]

Wills2 said:

To me it makes a complete mockery of the situation and I find it pretty hard to swallow hearing that Toto is chatting away to Jos as well, the mans a monster yet apparently can waltz around the paddock and that is totally inline with F1's principles towards women.

I mean just look at this lot:

"In 2008, Verstappen was then reportedly hit with a three-month suspended sentence for threatening Sophie Kumpen, who is Max’s mother, and violating a previously-issued restraining order."

"In November 2011, Verstappen denied allegations he assaulted an unnamed 24-year-old girlfriend in a hotel room in Venlo, Holland."

"In January 2012, he was arrested for attempted murder following claims that he drove a car into his ex-girlfriend in the Dutch city of Roermond."

How is he allowed to even think about sharing his opinion.

There are more incidents than that too... dating back to Max's early days in Karting. If anyone dare overtake his son with any vigour, Jos was likely to threaten them with violence.

[MustangGT]

Jasandjules said:

Well, I have only had a cursory view of a few of the messages. There are some interesting lines of thought that arise.

1. They had what appears to be a consensual and physical relationship at some stage
2. At some stage she was then put into lower level hotels and different flights
3. At some stage it appeared to be hinted if she didn't like it she could leave
4. At some stage it appears she told him to leave her be, and he continued the conduct.
5. He is her boss. We all understand what power plays come in on that basis which is exactly why such relationships are unwise to say the least.
6. Given 5, 2 and 3 apply rather more. Then add 4 into the mix and, well.....

Now, that is a reasonably clear issue in my view that ought to lead to a dismissal. IF it were a more junior set of employees I am 99% sure he would have been gone within a week. However, as we know, companies look at other factors. For example, risk/reward - what could she get at Tribunal and which employee do they value the most?.... I can also say that whilst a lawyer may suggest that is a sackable issue etc or even recommend it, the final decision rests with the company. I have more, more than once told a company that they can do X or Y, X will likely result in a Tribunal which they will lose. They still do X......

Your comments make a lot of sense.


But only if the messages are genuine. There is no proof that they are yet.

[520TORQUES]

MustangGT said:

Your comments make a lot of sense.


But only if the messages are genuine. There is no proof that they are yet.

CH has not denied they are real. If they were a fabrication that's the first thing that would have happened IMHO.

[2XIPA]

JV essentially values to CH. lol

[TheDeuce]

Another aspect of this, just how tight are RBR and the FIA if Sulayem is telling a driver what to say...? I know why he would want max to say that, but the fact he actually asks suggests a relationship based on back scratching is already established.

Classic case of a house of cards collapsing, all the BS and rot is coming out. It stinks - even if some aspects aren't clear, the whole thing reeks of power over fairplay, manipulation and tail covering. This has always been present in F1 of course, but to be this crude and blatant suggests the sport is now being governed not by smart and cunning dictators, but by plain stupid ones that are in fact damaging the 'show' they attempted to improve by controlling it in the first place.

It's bewildering to see this nonsense play out in such an amateurish manner.

[Rusty Old-Banger]

This whole saga is turning F1 in to a crap version of Eastenders. Embarrassing, IMO. Lots of respect for RB lost, what sort of stshow are they managing here?

Get Horner out, ban JV, and start acting like a multinational, professional outfit.

[DonkeyApple]

520TORQUES said:

Forester1965 said:

DonkeyApple said:

Such as? Not trying to be awkward but you can't really base anything on what is a chosen selection of a larger data set, especially given the nature of their publication, the lack of wider context and their potential origins.

What you can see is that the two adults partook in some level of wkery. You can see that CH has the skills of a mid level, live with mother accountant, possibly with the penis of a Jack Russell. But you can't really see much beyond that because of the nature of the data.

Without more it's textbook sexual harassment. It's also really crap on a human level. It's the kind of stuff that made the legislation necessary in the first place.

I'm surprised DA cant see it. Even with all the caveats it's clearly textbook, a lot of the content is even used as a direct example on the Acas page that covers the issue.

What I'm actually saying is that if you're going to hang someone, do so with the full facts not what is known to be a hand selected part of the story. Not arguing that someone is innocent merely observing that in order to find someone guilty you need the actual evidence.

[TheDeuce]

Rusty Old-Banger said:

This whole saga is turning F1 in to a crap version of Eastenders. Embarrassing, IMO. Lots of respect for RB lost, what sort of stshow are they managing here?

Get Horner out, ban JV, and start acting like a multinational, professional outfit.

Apparently it's the sort of st show the FIA wish to keep together and carry on, given Sulayem's private request for Max to show unity.

[GPH]

MustangGT said:

But only if the messages are genuine. There is no proof that they are yet.

Get real. We are way past that. That was settled on Friday and again yesterday.
From the horses mouth numerous times when he kept it shut after being asked if they were.

[5s Alive]

super7 said:

Max needs to be saved from his Dad before it’s too late….

The Verstappen 'brand' might well be toxic already. It's just taken time for the poison to spread.

That Horner, as an allegedly astute TP, has glibly provided Jos (and unknown others) with the ammunition to attack him beggars belief.

Regardless of pay-offs, the real victim here appears to be FH, especially now that everyone knows who she is.