Mohammed ben Sulayem

[Sandpit Steve]

Blib said:

Alex Albon: Drivers 'all concerned' about FIA's apparent free speech clampdown -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/64539592

They can all be ‘concerned’, but how many of them will keep talking once the stewards start dishing out penalties? Fines have been given out previously, for driver behaviour at press conferences. One driver clearly crossed the line with a protest t-shirt, worn on the podium at one race in 2021, that called for people to be arrested.

The race organisers want the focus each weekend to be on the racing, and not about drivers’ pet political viewpoints. The drivers all have wide social media platforms if they want to use them for other stuff.

It’s a problem not helped by the media, especially Sky, loving the political stuff and wanting to give it loads of coverage. But the media don’t answer to the FIA.

It’s a subject that came up at the Aussie Open tennis the other week, where there was a demonstration in the crowd - which appeared to be the only thing that the media were interested in discussing with the players, way more important than what happened on the court.

[moorx]

TheDeuce said:

Blib said:

Alex Albon: Drivers 'all concerned' about FIA's apparent free speech clampdown -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/64539592

I expect the floodgates will open up over the next few weeks in terms of who is now prepared to speak out about Sulayem. He's pissed so many people off in his first year that there is bound to be a lot of behind the scenes mutterings and people finding out how much support they'll receive if they do speak up.

He'll be gone by the start of the season if not the start of pre-season testing. Or if certain rumours are to be believed, he's already effectively gone.

I strongly suspect the rules about what drivers can say and do will either be fully retracted or sacked off altogether at the same time. It was a Sulayem initiative to introduce it, it has been divisive and received much criticism since then, I doubt they'll try and push forward with it if the man it is attached to is booted.

Valtteri Bottas voiced concerns last week too - very briefly mentioned here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/64501890

[SturdyHSV]

Leithen said:

MustangGT said:

How long do you think MBS position is tenable for? This is following the reveal of his misogynistic comments on his own web page from 20 years ago.

The FIA again treating us all to be fools by expecting us to believe they do not actually reflect his views.

Or Liberty/FOM treating us for fools expecting us to believe that they didn't have a hand in dredging this up to try and weaken him and the FIA.

I suspect all we are seeing is the visible part of the iceberg that is the FIA objecting to F1 becoming a billionaires boys closed shop.

This was my first thought, MBS says something a little too far outside of what is desirable and all of a sudden an unavailable website from 20 years ago magically resurfaces to tarnish his name? Bit blatant, but then I suspect it's supposed to be, to demonstrate that all parties involved have teeth.

I'm a little conflicted, because obviously his views are wrong, but as the more realistic of us have pointed out, we all thought some dumb st 20 years ago, until living with and ultimately having depression myself for example, I was completely ignorant to it.

If MBS had a team of PR people, they'd have spun this in to MBS being a leading example of how change in Dubai / UAE is not only possible, but already happening and things are improving for the better etc. if he's demonstrably been a promoter of women in motorsport in more recent times etc.

Overall, I'd agree with the sentiment that he'll be gone before the first race

[realjv]

F1 provides roughly 50% of the FIA income according to their own most recent activity report but F1 doesn't get a vote in choosing the FIA President. The President is elected by the member clubs so any suggestion that he is going to be kicked out because F1 doesn't like him is just wishful thinking. Clearly ing off your biggest customer is not good business but the FIA/F1 relationship isn't a normal business relationship because F1 belongs to the FIA and is only leased to Liberty/F1 Group.

[GiantCardboardPlato]

Sandpit Steve said:

. One driver clearly crossed the line with a protest t-shirt, worn on the podium at one race in 2021, that called for people to be arrested.

Is it wrong to call for the arrest of people?

[KaraK]

GiantCardboardPlato said:

Sandpit Steve said:

. One driver clearly crossed the line with a protest t-shirt, worn on the podium at one race in 2021, that called for people to be arrested.

Is it wrong to call for the arrest of people?

I always found that particular incident unintentionally hilarious

F1: Racism is bad, as a sport we're going to highlight racism as an issue, drivers can kneel, everyone gets an "End Racism" t-shirt, some soundbites to camera etc

LH: <Wears a t-shirt highlighting a specific incident>

F1: Not like that!

[Blib]

He gone....

F1 ROCKED AS MOHAMMED BEN SULAYEM QUITS


https://thejudge13.com/2023/02/08/f1-rocked-as-moh...


......sort of.

[PhilAsia]

KaraK said:

GiantCardboardPlato said:

Sandpit Steve said:

. One driver clearly crossed the line with a protest t-shirt, worn on the podium at one race in 2021, that called for people to be arrested.

Is it wrong to call for the arrest of people?

I always found that particular incident unintentionally hilarious

F1: Racism is bad, as a sport we're going to highlight racism as an issue, drivers can kneel, everyone gets an "End Racism" t-shirt, some soundbites to camera etc

LH: <Wears a t-shirt highlighting a specific incident>

F1: Not like that!

It is ok as long as you stay in your (acceptably moderated) lane...

[KaraK]

He hasn't quit as head of the FIA - he's just handed responsibility for the day-to-day of F1 over to the head of single-seaters. Not quite the same thing - which isn't stopping sensationalist rags the Wail, the Express and of course TJ13 bigging it up as "MBS QUITS!!!!1!"

[KaraK]

PhilAsia said:

KaraK said:

GiantCardboardPlato said:

Sandpit Steve said:

. One driver clearly crossed the line with a protest t-shirt, worn on the podium at one race in 2021, that called for people to be arrested.

Is it wrong to call for the arrest of people?

I always found that particular incident unintentionally hilarious

F1: Racism is bad, as a sport we're going to highlight racism as an issue, drivers can kneel, everyone gets an "End Racism" t-shirt, some soundbites to camera etc

LH: <Wears a t-shirt highlighting a specific incident>

F1: Not like that!

It is ok as long as you stay in your (acceptably moderated) lane...

Indeed, it just underlined what everyone already knew - that "We Race as One" was merely empty lip service. In much the same way that the would use that as a nod towards LGBT... and then go race in places like Saudi, and have MBS whinging in interviews about Seb Vettel riding a rainbow bike.

[Sandpit Steve]

PhilAsia said:

KaraK said:

GiantCardboardPlato said:

Sandpit Steve said:

. One driver clearly crossed the line with a protest t-shirt, worn on the podium at one race in 2021, that called for people to be arrested.

Is it wrong to call for the arrest of people?

I always found that particular incident unintentionally hilarious

F1: Racism is bad, as a sport we're going to highlight racism as an issue, drivers can kneel, everyone gets an "End Racism" t-shirt, some soundbites to camera etc

LH: <Wears a t-shirt highlighting a specific incident>

F1: Not like that!

It is ok as long as you stay in your (acceptably moderated) lane...

For the same reason footballers always get booked if they remove their shirt when celebrating a goal. Because it had got to the point that almost every player ended up wearing a t-shirt with a personal or political message.

As to the podium, well the team’s sponsors have paid a lot of money to have their brand in the photo that ends up on the back page of Monday’s newspapers worldwide.

The test with all these things, is always how would you react if you don’t like the message - what if a driver wore a Russian flag on their t-shirt, or “Make America Great Again”, on a red hat?

Yes, it comes down to the appropriate and acceptable gesture - precisely no-one is disagreeing with “Racism is bad, OK?”, which is the message everyone agreed on in advance.

[KaraK]

Sandpit Steve said:

For the same reason footballers always get booked if they remove their shirt when celebrating a goal. Because it had got to the point that almost every player ended up wearing a t-shirt with a personal or political message.

I don't really follow football, so wasn't aware of that. Sounds pretty mental to me though. Booking someone (essentially saying it's as bad a violation of the rules as fouling someone or minor cheating) for something that harms no-one and doesn't impact on the outcome or fairness of the game in any shape or form seems a bit extreme.

Sandpit Steve said:

As to the podium, well the team’s sponsors have paid a lot of money to have their brand in the photo that ends up on the back page of Monday’s newspapers worldwide.

And if it were the case that sponsors were unhappy about their logos being covered up that's between them and the team/driver. It's none of the FIA's business.

Sandpit Steve said:

The test with all these things, is always how would you react if you don’t like the message - what if a driver wore a Russian flag on their t-shirt, or “Make America Great Again”, on a red hat?

I'd give zero fks.. I'd probably think less of the driver as a person for being the sort of person to support a cause like MAGA but I certainly wouldn't be calling for a ban on it or go crying to the FIA about it. If it was something that unambiguously crossed the line into hate speech like "Heil Hitler" or called for violence e.g. "Kill the Welsh!" then there's existing regs surrounding hate speech that covered off that sort of thing before the recent changes.

The whole thing some people (for clarity I'm not aiming this at you Steve, or anyone here) do where they call for suppression of all "political" messaging when what they actually mean is "I hold the opposing view but don't want to take any flak for saying it" is intellectually dishonest and frankly pretty tiresome, and I have no real patience for anyone who engages in that. Based on the interview from MBS that kick started this whole thing and the statements attributed to him from a few years back I have a sneaking suspicion that he might be this sort of person. I can't prove it though. If he was (and crucially is) of the opinion that women are less intelligent then men than I'd rather he just come out and say it, at least that way we'd know exactly what sort of wker the FIA have put in charge.

Sandpit Steve said:

Yes, it comes down to the appropriate and acceptable gesture - precisely no-one is disagreeing with “Racism is bad, OK?”, which is the message everyone agreed on in advance.

You sure on that? There's an awful lot of racists out there in the world, a depressing number of which know they are and openly embrace that, do they think Racism is bad?

Edited by KaraK on Wednesday 8th February 13:38

[PhilAsia]

Sandpit Steve said:

For the same reason footballers always get booked if they remove their shirt when celebrating a goal. Because it had got to the point that almost every player ended up wearing a t-shirt with a personal or political message.

I never knew that. But, then again, I don't follow football. Perhaps this shows how little it matters, or how erm..., how little it matters.

Sandpit Steve said:

As to the podium, well the team’s sponsors have paid a lot of money to have their brand in the photo that ends up on the back page of Monday’s newspapers worldwide.

I would agree somewhat. Taking the agenda to the celebrations is ill thought out. At other times, not so.

Sandpit Steve said:

The test with all these things, is always how would you react if you don’t like the message - what if a driver wore a Russian flag on their t-shirt, or “Make America Great Again”, on a red hat?

Someone exercising their freedom of speech just indicates their mindset, wrongly or rightly. I would always like to know, personally.

Sandpit Steve said:

Yes, it comes down to the appropriate and acceptable gesture - precisely no-one is disagreeing with “Racism is bad, OK?”, which is the message everyone agreed on in advance.

The problem that has been highlighted was the "gesture" had no substance.

[PhilAsia]

KaraK said:

Sandpit Steve said:

Yes, it comes down to the appropriate and acceptable gesture - precisely no-one is disagreeing with “Racism is bad, OK?”, which is the message everyone agreed on in advance.

You sure on that? There's an awful lot of racists out there in the world, a depressing number of which know they are and openly embrace that, do they think Racism is bad?

AMGV8(?) post was removed thankfully... They/them is not a good look.

[Boom78]

KaraK said:

He hasn't quit as head of the FIA - he's just handed responsibility for the day-to-day of F1 over to the head of single-seaters. Not quite the same thing - which isn't stopping sensationalist rags the Wail, the Express and of course TJ13 bigging it up as "MBS QUITS!!!!1!"

I’ve seen this kind of statement many times over in my industry, if you remove the business bulls*** it equates to “I’ve been shuffled out into a back room position by my superiors/board to save both of us face until I move to an exciting new opportunity” aka fired

[Leithen]

Boom78 said:

KaraK said:

He hasn't quit as head of the FIA - he's just handed responsibility for the day-to-day of F1 over to the head of single-seaters. Not quite the same thing - which isn't stopping sensationalist rags the Wail, the Express and of course TJ13 bigging it up as "MBS QUITS!!!!1!"

I’ve seen this kind of statement many times over in my industry, if you remove the business bulls*** it equates to “I’ve been shuffled out into a back room position by my superiors/board to save both of us face until I move to an exciting new opportunity” aka fired

He'll serve his four year term. The real question is whether he'll win another. F1 might want Richards, and expect him to start building a campaign for election, but the FIA is global and that includes votes not swayed by FOM or Liberty. Richards ought to have support from the WRC, but WEC, Africa, India etc?

The battle here is for gatekeeping F1. Liberty 7 FOM want a closed franchise, FIA would perhaps accept this if there's something in it for them. In my opinion it would be the death of the sport, especially as the looming eradication of ICE speeds ever closer for consumers.

Schadenfreude would be various billionaires arguing over the corpse of a series that no longer has any relevance to anyone.

And as an aside, IIRC there is little love for Tombazis in the paddock.

[TheDeuce]

Leithen said:

Boom78 said:

KaraK said:

He hasn't quit as head of the FIA - he's just handed responsibility for the day-to-day of F1 over to the head of single-seaters. Not quite the same thing - which isn't stopping sensationalist rags the Wail, the Express and of course TJ13 bigging it up as "MBS QUITS!!!!1!"

I’ve seen this kind of statement many times over in my industry, if you remove the business bulls*** it equates to “I’ve been shuffled out into a back room position by my superiors/board to save both of us face until I move to an exciting new opportunity” aka fired

He'll serve his four year term. The real question is whether he'll win another. F1 might want Richards, and expect him to start building a campaign for election, but the FIA is global and that includes votes not swayed by FOM or Liberty. Richards ought to have support from the WRC, but WEC, Africa, India etc?

The battle here is for gatekeeping F1. Liberty 7 FOM want a closed franchise, FIA would perhaps accept this if there's something in it for them. In my opinion it would be the death of the sport, especially as the looming eradication of ICE speeds ever closer for consumers.

Schadenfreude would be various billionaires arguing over the corpse of a series that no longer has any relevance to anyone.

And as an aside, IIRC there is little love for Tombazis in the paddock.

The total value of F1 to the FIA is colossal actually. If, for example, F1 were to setup shop outside of the FIA under a different name, along with the support series, the FIA would become pretty irrelevant - and upsettingly short of funds (good claret, caviar and foie gra..) so there is a power play to be had here - and that is what is happening. That's why the FIA are claiming it's OK to comment about commercial aspects of the the sports license holders and why Liberty, the license holders, are telling them to ps off with their comments and to stick to governance of sporting matters, not the direction of the sport commercially.

Mostly blank shots fired on both sides as neither will want to upset the apple cart too much too quickly.. But both sides are battling to define the level of control and influence they expect to have over the sport.

I feel that when it come to keeping such negotiations out of the sphere of public opinion and controversy, BCE was actually quite good at it. Liberty are being more openly combative and the FIA are digging their heels in and hitting back.

I think Sulayem definitely went too far by suggesting the Liberty asset of the F1 license was 'overvalued'. That's clearly not acceptable - you don't flog someone something that a massive commercial operation is built upon and then tell the world it probably isn't really worth it..

[rallycross]

I’d like to know who are the people who told him to move aside? (Aka resign?)

Is the ghost of old Spanky still hanging around the corridors of the FIA?
Has Bernie pulled some secret strings?
Is he just a puppet of Jean Todt and Michell Yo (so he never really left)
Was Todt really Balestre’s secret love child?

[TheDeuce]

I think the reality is that his nature and nurture on certain aspects of what is a chiefly western sport simply weren't acceptable to the masses.

It's always going to be a difficult sell for someone of arabian culture to gently suggest that it might be best for F1 to race in the middle east more and that it would be best for everyone if the drivers were not permitted to express views on anything political, including human rights issues in the middle east...

I actually believe it's good that F1, a western sport goes to the ME. I'm not for one moment under any illusion it does so for any reason other than profit, which is fine, I've worked there for profit too. It's right a business heads for the money. But for several thousand years the result of foreign interaction for the sake of trading, in one way or another, has been cultural impression and exchange. The greeks used to at one point look to the east, they now adopt a lot eastern culture but also western culture, because they traded with both.

After thousands of years of healthy cultural exchange, it's a bit daft for a person very definitely on one side of the east/west divide to suggest it would be best if everyone avoids mentioning anything culturally challenging. If the middle east wants F1, even if it's because they wish to sport wash, they should have it imo. But they should have it in full, including women working aside men in the pitlane and the drivers views on where they are in the world. They want the drivers after all don't they? That's part of the spectacle they're importing.. If you want it, have it. The full fat version.

For the sake of balance I have an interest in cooking and especially Persian food, it's amazing and takes a lot of care to get right. I was inspired because my childhood neighbour and friend was Persian (back when it was Persia). The exchange works both ways and I think it should be obvious that the modern F1 viewer should be capable of enjoying races in the ME so long as F1 is allowed to shine for what it is - driver comments included, and that so long as the western viewer sees there are also healthy parts or ME culture shown that could be better applied at home - for example, not shuffling nan off to live in a soul destroying nursing home for the last few years of her life 'she's become a bit of a handful...' In the ME, the younger generations will generally care for their elders until hospitalisation is the final option. There are different ways to be human. They're obsessed with the old laws of how life should be lived, we're obsessed with doing thing nicely, until it becomes a bit of an inconvenience to our modern life.

I don't invite a debate as to how the merits of middle eastern cultures compare to western cultures. I just hope that both sides can be open and adopting. If you think Sulayem is wrong to attempt to curtail driver views, you should ideally seek to find something positive about different parts of the world where F1 treads. It's never all bad.

[Teddy Lop]

TheDeuce said:

I think Sulayem definitely went too far by suggesting the Liberty asset of the F1 license was 'overvalued'. That's clearly not acceptable - you don't flog someone something that a massive commercial operation is built upon and then tell the world it probably isn't really worth it..

It wasn't Ali or the FIA that "sold" F1 to liberty