The Official USA Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**
Discussion
PhillipM said:
Good, articifially restrict the aero and open up the suspension, tyres and engine. Aero has been the 1 decider for everything for far too long.
No, you need the engine regulated as well within reason, or it becomes an arms race. Give some predictability to the manufacturers, or you price out new entrants, and it becomes even more of a driver lottery...Eric Mc said:
Nothing daft about the comment at all.
That's what the regulators have been trying to do. Last year, it actually worked well in that the teams found it VERY hard to predict what the tyres were doing - venue to venue.
The tyres are not part of the regulations, they are an experimented requested by FOTA to "improve the show" and so tolerated by the FIA. No one told Pirelli how to design the tyres, they are only their interpretation and I am sure Michelin would do better.That's what the regulators have been trying to do. Last year, it actually worked well in that the teams found it VERY hard to predict what the tyres were doing - venue to venue.
Hopefully Bernie has engineered the new technical group so that after a few teams go bust running unaffordable engine packages, two thirds of the votes, plus Ferrari, will vote for common sense reform of the RRA. This current madness is not sustainable, why would anyone want to sponsor it.
My guess is that once Mark has moved on, the lid will be blown off the sheer lack of competitive racing that is going on. Saving fuel only has significant meaning in Europe. Gas is cheap in the US, Middle and Far East, lack of fans at many of the new venues tells you that the paying public are not impressed.
The whole circus is slipping into a huge showboating exercise for the incredibly affluent and ego trip for the promotors.
scrwright said:
single piece, flat plane wings would be a start rather than the constructions we have at the moment, would be easier to put a logo on too
I agree entirely but the naysayers will moan about spec series and lack of innovation.I would rather the emphasis was on grounds effect but the technical working group was dead against it for fear of another arms race - what a joke! That's the whole point of F1 - if it isn't blown diffusers then it was previously multi-deck diffusers. It the next year or so we'll have another trend.
entropy said:
I agree entirely but the naysayers will moan about spec series and lack of innovation.
I would rather the emphasis was on grounds effect but the technical working group was dead against it for fear of another arms race - what a joke! That's the whole point of F1 - if it isn't blown diffusers then it was previously multi-deck diffusers. It the next year or so we'll have another trend.
Ground effect would rapidly drive up cornering speeds and further reduce overtaking. Do you want that?I would rather the emphasis was on grounds effect but the technical working group was dead against it for fear of another arms race - what a joke! That's the whole point of F1 - if it isn't blown diffusers then it was previously multi-deck diffusers. It the next year or so we'll have another trend.
rdjohn said:
The tyres are not part of the regulations, they are an experimented requested by FOTA to "improve the show" and so tolerated by the FIA. No one told Pirelli how to design the tyres, they are only their interpretation and I am sure Michelin would do better.
Hopefully Bernie has engineered the new technical group so that after a few teams go bust running unaffordable engine packages, two thirds of the votes, plus Ferrari, will vote for common sense reform of the RRA. This current madness is not sustainable, why would anyone want to sponsor it.
My guess is that once Mark has moved on, the lid will be blown off the sheer lack of competitive racing that is going on. Saving fuel only has significant meaning in Europe. Gas is cheap in the US, Middle and Far East, lack of fans at many of the new venues tells you that the paying public are not impressed.
The whole circus is slipping into a huge showboating exercise for the incredibly affluent and ego trip for the promotors.
FIA asked Pirelli to make fragile tyres.Hopefully Bernie has engineered the new technical group so that after a few teams go bust running unaffordable engine packages, two thirds of the votes, plus Ferrari, will vote for common sense reform of the RRA. This current madness is not sustainable, why would anyone want to sponsor it.
My guess is that once Mark has moved on, the lid will be blown off the sheer lack of competitive racing that is going on. Saving fuel only has significant meaning in Europe. Gas is cheap in the US, Middle and Far East, lack of fans at many of the new venues tells you that the paying public are not impressed.
The whole circus is slipping into a huge showboating exercise for the incredibly affluent and ego trip for the promotors.
Engines have always been expensive, nothing new there.
RRA is not really relevant, there are ways around the RRA which are being exploited by those who have the £££
Why does competitive racing centre around Webber ?? He's had the best equipment and ultimately failed to keep up with his team mate.
Gas might be cheap in the US compared to here but they are feeling the pinch - V6s are now hugely common rather than V8s, lots and lots of japanese 4 cylinder cars. The stalwart of muscle cars the Mustang even gets a 4 cylinder turbo (from the Focus ST) next year.
What Eric said about "unlearning" is absolutely right. Besides its utterly naive to think we can remove the wings and all will be well with F1 - for a start every single seater series right down to Formula Ford would have to follow suit. or you utterly undermine F1 because a winged GP2 or WSR car would be quicker, so you take the wings of those, then GP3 is quicker and so on.
The F1 cars themselves would have to change massively from what we have now, essentially they might as well go and pull out some early 70s cars and use those.
Like it or not Aero is here to stay.
Vaud said:
entropy said:
I agree entirely but the naysayers will moan about spec series and lack of innovation.
I would rather the emphasis was on grounds effect but the technical working group was dead against it for fear of another arms race - what a joke! That's the whole point of F1 - if it isn't blown diffusers then it was previously multi-deck diffusers. It the next year or so we'll have another trend.
Ground effect would rapidly drive up cornering speeds and further reduce overtaking. Do you want that?I would rather the emphasis was on grounds effect but the technical working group was dead against it for fear of another arms race - what a joke! That's the whole point of F1 - if it isn't blown diffusers then it was previously multi-deck diffusers. It the next year or so we'll have another trend.
Kneetrembler said:
This year we have virtually known the outcome of each F1 race before its even started or finished, very boring parade driving.
What a complete load of crap.Did you predict Williams struggling ?
Kimi winning and being so consistent with good finishes ?
Grosjean having 4 podiums in 5 races ?
Rosberg winning before Lewis ?
The McLaren having their worst season in nearly 30 years?
The Ferrari tailing off in the 2nd half ?
Eric Mc said:
I don't know where this notion that "flat out" racing is a requirement in F1.
It never was and never has been (except for a very short period during the abysmal Schumacher era).
And what does the term "flat out" mean anyway?
EVERY driver is driving as fast as he can GIVEN THE CONDITION OF HIS CAR AND TYRES - as has been the case since the first GP in 1906.
This is what Vettel had to say after yesterday's race:It never was and never has been (except for a very short period during the abysmal Schumacher era).
And what does the term "flat out" mean anyway?
EVERY driver is driving as fast as he can GIVEN THE CONDITION OF HIS CAR AND TYRES - as has been the case since the first GP in 1906.
http://www.grandprix.com/race/r896racereport.html
Vettel said:
"Racing is different now," Vettel said. "When I came into F1 it was a number of 20 laps sprints, but now because of the fuel weight you have to manage the tires better. You cannot push too crazy at the start, because you'll hurt your tires. You never push to the limit but you do what you can to achieve the best race time you can.
RYH64E said:
Eric Mc said:
I don't know where this notion that "flat out" racing is a requirement in F1.
It never was and never has been (except for a very short period during the abysmal Schumacher era).
And what does the term "flat out" mean anyway?
EVERY driver is driving as fast as he can GIVEN THE CONDITION OF HIS CAR AND TYRES - as has been the case since the first GP in 1906.
This is what Vettel had to say after yesterday's race:It never was and never has been (except for a very short period during the abysmal Schumacher era).
And what does the term "flat out" mean anyway?
EVERY driver is driving as fast as he can GIVEN THE CONDITION OF HIS CAR AND TYRES - as has been the case since the first GP in 1906.
http://www.grandprix.com/race/r896racereport.html
Vettel said:
"Racing is different now," Vettel said. "When I came into F1 it was a number of 20 laps sprints, but now because of the fuel weight you have to manage the tires better. You cannot push too crazy at the start, because you'll hurt your tires. You never push to the limit but you do what you can to achieve the best race time you can.
Eric Mc said:
He agrees with me. He says he is driving as flat out AS HE CAN.
This is what he actually said:Vettel said:
You never push to the limit but you do what you can to achieve the best race time you can.
F1 2013 style said:
Once upon a time there was a hare who, boasting how he could run faster than anyone else, was forever teasing tortoise for its slowness. Then one day, the irate tortoise answered back: “Who do you think you are? There’s no denying you’re swift, but even you can be beaten!” The hare squealed with laughter.
“Beaten in a race? By whom? Not you, surely! I bet there’s nobody in the world that can win against me, I’m so speedy. Now, why don’t you try?”
Annoyed by such bragging, the tortoise accepted the challenge. A course was planned, and the next day at dawn they stood at the starting line. The hare yawned sleepily as the meek tortoise trudged slowly off. When the hare saw how painfully slow his rival was, he decided, half asleep on his feet, to have a quick nap. “Take your time!” he said. “I’ll have forty winks and catch up with you in a minute.”
The hare woke with a start from a fitful sleep and gazed round, looking for the tortoise. But the creature was only a short distance away, having barely covered a third of the course. Breathing a sigh of relief, the hare decided he might as well have breakfast too, and off he went to munch some cabbages he had noticed in a nearby field. But the heavy meal and the hot sun made his eyelids droop. With a careless glance at the tortoise, now halfway along the course, he decided to have another snooze before flashing past the winning post. And smiling at the thought of the look on the tortoise’s face when it saw the hare speed by, he fell fast asleep and was soon snoring happily. The sun started to sink, below the horizon, and the tortoise, who had been plodding towards the winning post since morning, was scarcely a yard from the finish. At that very point, the hare woke with a jolt. He could see the tortoise a speck in the distance and away he dashed. He leapt and bounded at a great rate, his tongue lolling, and gasping for breath. Just a little more and he’d be first at the finish. But the hare’s last leap was just too late, for the tortoise had beaten him to the winning post. Poor hare! Tired and in disgrace, he slumped down beside the tortoise who was silently smiling at him.
“Slowly does it every time!” he said.
“Beaten in a race? By whom? Not you, surely! I bet there’s nobody in the world that can win against me, I’m so speedy. Now, why don’t you try?”
Annoyed by such bragging, the tortoise accepted the challenge. A course was planned, and the next day at dawn they stood at the starting line. The hare yawned sleepily as the meek tortoise trudged slowly off. When the hare saw how painfully slow his rival was, he decided, half asleep on his feet, to have a quick nap. “Take your time!” he said. “I’ll have forty winks and catch up with you in a minute.”
The hare woke with a start from a fitful sleep and gazed round, looking for the tortoise. But the creature was only a short distance away, having barely covered a third of the course. Breathing a sigh of relief, the hare decided he might as well have breakfast too, and off he went to munch some cabbages he had noticed in a nearby field. But the heavy meal and the hot sun made his eyelids droop. With a careless glance at the tortoise, now halfway along the course, he decided to have another snooze before flashing past the winning post. And smiling at the thought of the look on the tortoise’s face when it saw the hare speed by, he fell fast asleep and was soon snoring happily. The sun started to sink, below the horizon, and the tortoise, who had been plodding towards the winning post since morning, was scarcely a yard from the finish. At that very point, the hare woke with a jolt. He could see the tortoise a speck in the distance and away he dashed. He leapt and bounded at a great rate, his tongue lolling, and gasping for breath. Just a little more and he’d be first at the finish. But the hare’s last leap was just too late, for the tortoise had beaten him to the winning post. Poor hare! Tired and in disgrace, he slumped down beside the tortoise who was silently smiling at him.
“Slowly does it every time!” he said.
007 VXR said:
So refueling would help then. Still can't see them bring that back
When we had refuelling, lots of people moaned that it meant that races were a series of sprints and the drivers didn't have to conserve fuel and how much better things were when we didn't have refuelling. 
JonRB said:
007 VXR said:
So refueling would help then. Still can't see them bring that back
When we had refuelling, lots of people moaned that it meant that races were a series of sprints and the drivers didn't have to conserve fuel and how much better things were when we didn't have refuelling. 
My dad used to go on about the internet distroying the world until he found porn on it 
Is always some thing good, if you just look at it a diffrent way.Eric Mc said:
I for one don't want F1 sprints between pit stops.
Bizarre, why not? Too exciting can be the only answer.The simplest way to level the playing field is success ballast; say up to 60kg in 5 kg increments; lose the ballast at 5kg per place after top 3 placings. That would bring the top 10 together in just a few races. Creating cars that can carry the extra weight would be an interesting engineering study, substituting mechanical grip for aero.
I would also regulate a genuine flat floor - all aero needs to be visible to fans and the other teams, so that they can quickly catch up.
The only thing that might prevent that is constructor points, so award an extra constructor point for every 10kg carried. That way we may find out who the best driver is and which constructor is most versatile with their concepts. Good drivers will be in greater demand than drivers with a budget to pay for even more CFD engineers.
On top of these regs, I would have at least 2 mandatory 10 sec pit stops on the grounds of safety, with only 10 guys to do it (2 jacks and 2 per corner) durable tyres would ensure that drivers can at least try to stay on the tail of the car in front, rather than having to continually back-off like Mark did yesterday.
Racing needs to be close and passing needs to be difficult, not waiting for a car braking early to save fuel, so just stand on the brakes late for an easy pass. Finesse and subtlety of driving needs to be paramount to justify the title WORLD DRIVER CHAMPIONSHIP.
I want to make clear that I do believe that SV and RB are very worthy winners given the controlling parameters, it is just that the wins are largely technical and strategic, rather than primarily driver influenced. That is why yesterday even SV acknowledged that "it might not always be like this."
THANK GOD FOR THAT!
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