Lewis Hamilton

[HighwayStar]

HARTLEYHARE1 said:

Great job and should Vettel kept his head would have been a great year

Lewis no doubt very talented but needs to leave the powerful house of Mercedes and join a smaller team to help them grow to achieve a true championship

Hmmmm... By your measure Senna can't really all that either because he won his 3 WDC in an era when McLaren was at the height of their powers.

[sparta6]

37chevy said:

the parameters have changed, but id say the modern sportsperson has a lot more to deal with than the fangios of the world, thankfully death isn't high up that list

I agree, it's also worth remembering that Fangio winning 5 WDC's with death staring at him each weekend is a challenge absent for today's drivers.

Fangio, Nuvolari, Moss etc had proper balls of steel

Edited by sparta6 on Monday 29th October 11:55

[37chevy]

sparta6 said:

I agree, it's also worth remembering that Fangio winning 5 WDC's with death staring at him each weekend is a challenge absent for today's drivers.

Fangio, Nuvolari, Moss etc had proper balls of steel

Edited by sparta6 on Monday 29th October 11:55

very different times though. those guys had gone through 2 world wars, death wasn't something unknown to them

[Derek Smith]

One point regarding those who criticise Hamilton for his 'lifestyle choices'.

Stewart was also criticised for the way he ran his life, and that was before his dress sense collapsed entirely. He was seen as too modern and with it.

[swisstoni]

If todays drivers were born when back in those days they would have driven the death traps with the same alacrity as the old-time greats.
Human nature doesn't change. One generation does not innately have more bottle than another.

[nyxster]

sparta6 said:

I agree, but it's also worth remembering that Fangio winning 5 WDC's with death staring at him each weekend is a challenge absent for today's drivers.

Fangio, Nuvolari, Moss etc had proper balls of steel

Just living long enough to win 5 times was an achievement, and people talk about stamina - Fangio competed in 10,000km races that lasted 2 weeks without sports nutritionists, luxury motorhomes, and a masseuse.

Comparing generations is silly - every WDC possesses the extra nth degree of talent that set them ahead of their peers. It doesn’t matter if it was Fangio, Senna, Häkkinen or Hamilton they all possessed that winners instinct that got them above everyone else - all other factors equalised you can’t say that any WDC was less worthy than another because every one of them possessed the unique drive to go beyond what their peers could achieve and do things with a race car others couldn’t. When you look how close the Rosberg/Hamilton battle was then its clear that the gap between world class drivers is paper thin in talent terms and number of wins, poles and WDC’s in influenced as much as being in the right car on any given Sunday and being lucky enough to avoid the Max Verstappens, rogue punctures, failures or whatever. What sets WDC’s apart is their willingness to push everything to the limit and overstep it, but the maturity and tactical ability to judge the right actions in split seconds.

I suspect most drivers regard all the WDC’s as equals - they are the best of the best, a 5x WDC doesn’t dilute the achievement of a 1x WDC who fought just as hard for it but maybe didn’t get the career run to do more. Most of the drivers know their career achievements are in the hands of luck of being in the right seat for the right season, it’s impossible to say that Kimi wouldn’t have matched Lewis or Schumacher given the same career opportunities and drives, or that Lewis wouldn’t have faded into obscurity had Mercedes not backed him at such an early age. As great as Lewis is he has the benefit of the support of the best funded team in F1 with all the sports science and support that entails - something he acknowledges and is deeply thankful for. Would he have had the same character to walk Fangios path? Would Fangio have got the opportunity Lewis did in the modern era?

Too many variables - they are the best of the best, you can’t rank them because each was a product of their era, what is certain they achieved more than their peers and proved themselves so each was equally worthy.

[sparta6]

37chevy said:

sparta6 said:

I agree, it's also worth remembering that Fangio winning 5 WDC's with death staring at him each weekend is a challenge absent for today's drivers.

Fangio, Nuvolari, Moss etc had proper balls of steel

Edited by sparta6 on Monday 29th October 11:55

very different times though. those guys had gone through 2 world wars, death wasn't something unknown to them

Certainly.
Now people feel anxious when they lose their internet connection

[nyxster]

sparta6 said:

Certainly.
Now people feel anxious when they lose their internet connection

With good reason sometimes, a telemetry loss cost Lewis a Monaco win because as Toto dumbfounded said ‘nobody bothered to look over the pit wall.’

[entropy]

Derek Smith said:

We’re living through a period in F1 that will be talked of in 20-30 years’ time. Fans will be so jealous of us to have seen one of the all-time greats in his prime.

We’ve seen him develop as a driver to the stage where he is the most complete driver on the grid. He’s made so few mistakes that it is remarkable.

Feel honoured.

Agreed.

I remember watching him on Saturday afternoon telly on a programme called 'Champions Of The Future' showing karting....

Some years later becomes GP2 champ who was by then a star in the making by off one of the greatest overtaking moves in the whole of motorsport at the 2006 British GP support race https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0PpiaMPGNk and Papa Hamilton flicking his wrists in delight at his kid...

Equal to Alonso in his rookie year and would have been a worthy WDC; that drive in Fuji and atrociously wet conditions...

Becomes WDC the year after; that drive in Silverstone perhaps his greatest ever...

McLaren starts off with a dog of a car in 2009 but Lewis eventually won races. Who said Lewis could only win with best car?

The nadir of 20011 - woz it becoz he woz black? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBPBrJ74C8I, dwindling motivation? the bling lifestyle...

Moves to Mercedes, a move to the unknown...

Beats karting buddy/rival to heated rivalry Nico Rosberg 2-1 in WDCs. Hard racing but fair from Hamilton? Nico doesn't thing so...

Beats Vettel in a straight WDC fight.

Another year, another opportunity. Let battle commence!

Will we ever again on British TV see another Lewis grow? It's been an absolute privilege. Thanks for the memories.

[nyxster]

The best estimate is it now takes about 8 million to get from karting to F1. As Lewis has commented the ability of people like his dad to compete even in karting against the Lance Strolls is almost non-existent. Verstappen and Rosberg both got in vis]a their dad’s, unless your family has gobfuls of cash and puts you in a kart as a toddler you have very little chance. Certainly I don’t think we’ll ever see a Kimi Räikkönen start at 10 and get to Ferrari. Ocon has the talent and his dad sold the family home and Ocon lived in a caravan to make it and is now losing his drive to a kid whose dad bought him a F1 car and private circuit time then bought a whole bloody team.

The Red Bull machine churns through drivers too quickly to curate the sort of talent that can have a lasting career - I think teams are so impatient for results now it is unlikely many future drivers will last as long as Lewis to clock up multiple WDC’s so I think this could be the last we see of career greats like Lewis, Alonso, Kimi and Seb to be replaced by an ever changing parade of Max Verstappens touted as the next Senna only to be dropped after a few seasons before they reach their potential.

I hope I’m wrong, but sadly I think the money now involved means the best talent may never be seen.

[anonymous-user]

People comparing Fangio... Worth bearing in mind the sport was very different back then.

In 1951 Fangio only competed in 7 events that contributed to WDC points. And even then, you didn't use points from all the races (you only counted your best 3 or 4 results).

Whilst the risk of death in those days shouldn't be ignored, the modern F1 driver has a far more gruelling sporting task in winning a WDC than in those days of yore.

[GOATever]

Fair play to Hamilton, he was the best of the bunch this year, and kept his head when it wasn’t going quite right. However, comparing someone who drives a ( relatively) safe car, around what are ( relatively) safe, essentially overblown kart tracks, to someone who raced death traps, on very risky / dangerous circuits, and would not really be able expected to survive long enough to win 5 drivers titles, let alone actually do so, and go on to live a full life, isn’t really right. I won’t acknowledge him as British, until he pays U.K. taxes either. You can’t compare racing across eras, and when Fangio won his titles, a Grand Prix, was a very special, and not terribly common occurrence, compared to The sanitised facsimiles we see today. However ( other than the tax dodging) that’s out of Hamilton’s control. So fair play to him, he’s done the best job he could, with what he had. It will be interesting to see how the ( to my mind ) technically superior, but less experienced Bottas develops in years to come.

[Exige77]

It was very different in Fangio’s day.

[HustleRussell]

GOATever said:

Fair play to Hamilton, he was the best of the bunch this year, and kept his head when it wasn’t going quite right. However, comparing someone who drives a ( relatively) safe car, around what are ( relatively) safe, essentially overblown kart tracks, to someone who raced death traps, on very risky / dangerous circuits, and would not really be able expected to survive long enough to win 5 drivers titles, let alone actually do so, and go on to live a full life, isn’t really right. I won’t acknowledge him as British, until he pays U.K. taxes either. You can’t compare racing across eras, and when Fangio won his titles, a Grand Prix, was a very special, and not terribly common occurrence, compared to The sanitised facsimiles we see today. However ( other than the tax dodging) that’s out of Hamilton’s control. So fair play to him, he’s done the best job he could, with what he had. It will be interesting to see how the ( to my mind ) technically superior, but less experienced Bottas develops in years to come.

[HighwayStar]

GOATever said:

Fair play to Hamilton, he was the best of the bunch this year, and kept his head when it wasn’t going quite right. However, comparing someone who drives a ( relatively) safe car, around what are ( relatively) safe, essentially overblown kart tracks, to someone who raced death traps, on very risky / dangerous circuits, and would not really be able expected to survive long enough to win 5 drivers titles, let alone actually do so, and go on to live a full life, isn’t really right. I won’t acknowledge him as British, until he pays U.K. taxes either. You can’t compare racing across eras, and when Fangio won his titles, a Grand Prix, was a very special, and not terribly common occurrence, compared to The sanitised facsimiles we see today. However ( other than the tax dodging) that’s out of Hamilton’s control. So fair play to him, he’s done the best job he could, with what he had. It will be interesting to see how the ( to my mind ) technically superior, but less experienced Bottas develops in years to come.

Ok, I'll indulge you... Bottas is technically superior based on what? And if he is, why isn't running right behind Lewis at every race and right there on the right row or side by side on the grid as Nico invariably was? Straight question.

[nyxster]

GOATever said:

Fair play to Hamilton, he was the best of the bunch this year, and kept his head when it wasn’t going quite right. However, comparing someone who drives a ( relatively) safe car, around what are ( relatively) safe, essentially overblown kart tracks, to someone who raced death traps, on very risky / dangerous circuits, and would not really be able expected to survive long enough to win 5 drivers titles, let alone actually do so, and go on to live a full life, isn’t really right. I won’t acknowledge him as British, until he pays U.K. taxes either. You can’t compare racing across eras, and when Fangio won his titles, a Grand Prix, was a very special, and not terribly common occurrence, compared to The sanitised facsimiles we see today. However ( other than the tax dodging) that’s out of Hamilton’s control. So fair play to him, he’s done the best job he could, with what he had. It will be interesting to see how the ( to my mind ) technically superior, but less experienced Bottas develops in years to come.

I must have missed the notification where your nationality of birth is revoked when you leave the country to live abroad.

[swisstoni]

HustleRussell said:

GOATever said:

Fair play to Hamilton, he was the best of the bunch this year, and kept his head when it wasn’t going quite right. However, comparing someone who drives a ( relatively) safe car, around what are ( relatively) safe, essentially overblown kart tracks, to someone who raced death traps, on very risky / dangerous circuits, and would not really be able expected to survive long enough to win 5 drivers titles, let alone actually do so, and go on to live a full life, isn’t really right. I won’t acknowledge him as British, until he pays U.K. taxes either. You can’t compare racing across eras, and when Fangio won his titles, a Grand Prix, was a very special, and not terribly common occurrence, compared to The sanitised facsimiles we see today. However ( other than the tax dodging) that’s out of Hamilton’s control. So fair play to him, he’s done the best job he could, with what he had. It will be interesting to see how the ( to my mind ) technically superior, but less experienced Bottas develops in years to come.

Is Jenson Button British?

[Kraken]

Why is it whenever there is mention of Hamilton people bang on about taxes? Being British is about where you're born or who your parents are. It's absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with where you pay your taxes.

He's probably raised far more money for the country indirectly than he would have paid in tax if he lived here anyway.

[Exige77]

GOATever said:

Fair play to Hamilton, he was the best of the bunch this year, and kept his head when it wasn’t going quite right. However, comparing someone who drives a ( relatively) safe car, around what are ( relatively) safe, essentially overblown kart tracks, to someone who raced death traps, on very risky / dangerous circuits, and would not really be able expected to survive long enough to win 5 drivers titles, let alone actually do so, and go on to live a full life, isn’t really right. I won’t acknowledge him as British, until he pays U.K. taxes either. You can’t compare racing across eras, and when Fangio won his titles, a Grand Prix, was a very special, and not terribly common occurrence, compared to The sanitised facsimiles we see today. However ( other than the tax dodging) that’s out of Hamilton’s control. So fair play to him, he’s done the best job he could, with what he had. It will be interesting to see how the ( to my mind ) technically superior, but less experienced Bottas develops in years to come.

Hilarious post.

Are are serious ?

Fangio era drivers where pretty brave, I’ll give you that but health and safety wasn’t what it is today in most walks of life, be it the battlefield or the factory floor.

Not sure many Fangio era drivers would be up to scratch today in a modern F1 car and all the other stuff drivers need to do now.

[entropy]

Even Jim Clark the humble down-to-Earth - literally - thought nothing better other than racing cars tending the farm ended up living in Paris for tax purposes, let alone Jackie Stewart who had a bling lifestyle himself and lived in Switzerland.