Lewis Hamilton

[anonymous-user]

Exige77 said:

It was very different in Fangio’s day.

Exactly.

Plus the reliability was so poor and as others have mentioned you would be lucky to finish a full season without seriously hurting yourself or even death.

Each era should have records and that's about it.

The WDC is something that means the most and is the only record that can really be given any attention.

It's a completely different sport to the past as you can see when drivers are quite happy to hit someone else knowing they will walk away if anything goes wrong.

Drivers knowing they could die yet still pushed the limited to me are a different breed to the modern generation.

Both are highly skilled but there is a huge difference.

[nyxster]

Kraken said:

Why is it whenever there is mention of Hamilton people bang on about taxes? Being British is about where you're born or who your parents are. It's absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with where you pay your taxes.

He's probably raised far more money for the country indirectly than he would have paid in tax if he lived here anyway.

It’s actually a myth that you don’t pay any tax at all in Monaco. In common with performing artists and sports people Lewis is obligated to pay tax in the places where he ‘performs’ so a proportion of tax is due to each country where he races according to their own tax rules. Any money he earns through personal sponsorship, appearances etc also attracts tax in the country where it is paid. He operates through a personal company and will pay corporation tax on the profits, the only element of tax saving in Monaco is his personal salary he claims from the company and any capital gains. All he’s doing by living in Monaco is avoiding double taxation at source then paying the higher rate of personal income tax again in the UK, which since he travels most of the year makes perfect sense as you only become UK tax resident if you spend over 90 nights a year in the country. For somone with a unstable career earning potential his income has to last him well beyond his likely mid-thirties retirement age, and when he moved at 22 he had no certainty of earning more than a couple of million as reward for the massive investment his father made to get him there.

While I have no doubt that the above and other media examples of politics of envy will likely stop him getting a deserved knighthood for his sporting achievement - which it shouldn’t since both Branson and Philip Green are tax exiles, suggesting he is not British for arranging his financial affairs to his personal benefit and choosing to not live in the UK is about the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard. There are numerous benefits to living in Monaco beyond tax, not least is the fact it’s a paparazzi free zone and Lewis and other drivers can have a normal life without being hassled, and its security means he can go about on his motorbike without a security entourage.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Modern Era
1/Hamilton
2/Senna
3/Prost
4/Schumacher

Glory Years
1/Stewart
2/Lauda
3/Clark
4/Fittipaldi

Pre/Post War
1/Fangio
2/Ascari
3/Nuvolari
4/Moss

• Edited To Add....

These are in my humble opinion and are completely meaningless in the grand scheme of things-even I can chop and change about who and in which order!

[anonymous-user]

swisstoni said:

If todays drivers were born when back in those days they would have driven the death traps with the same alacrity as the old-time greats.
Human nature doesn't change. One generation does not innately have more bottle than another.

If today's drivers were racing back in the death trap years they would all be dead.

[anonymous-user]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Modern Era
1/Hamilton
2/Senna
3/Prost
4/Schumacher

Glory Years
1/Stewart
2/Lauda
3/Clark
4/Fittipaldi

Pre/Post War
1/Fangio
2/Ascari
3/Nuvolari
4/Moss

Modern era and you have Hamilton, Senna and Prost? Yes, Schumacher did race in the modern era but he is surely ahead of Hamilton.

Modern era should be 2000 anyway.

80's and 90's was again a totally different sport.

Hamilton himself said he could not imagine driving Senna's McLaren at the limit.

[Polite M135 driver]

I don't see how Schumacher can be placed be ahead of Hamilton:

- pretty much only ever had a subservient teammate
- custom tyres
- deliberate cheater (though perhaps not a premeditated cheater).

[Vaud]

Polite M135 driver said:

I don't see how Schumacher can be placed be ahead of Hamilton:

- pretty much only ever had a subservient teammate
- custom tyres
- deliberate cheater (though perhaps not a premeditated cheater).

That's the problem with any comparison and trying to put anyone above or below each other. Schumacher was those, but he also maximized his position in the team. I haven't met anyone in an F1 team that did not rate him very very highly.

I've also met with someone who has worked directly with both Hamilton and Schumacher for long periods and he explained that they are/were very different characters, but both brilliant, and both have flaws.

I prefer a bucket of greats:

Schumacher
Hamilton
Senna
Prost
Clark
Fangio
etc

There are too many variables to make absolute ranked lists. Better to watch and enjoy the racing than force lists?

[Eric Mc]

37chevy said:

I disagree slightly. its unfair to say Fangio had a lot more to deal with.

back in the day you could just turn up and drive (yeh not quite that simple) now the margins are so tight you have to worry about diet, fitness, social media, the press and everything that goes along with being a professional sportsperson.

there was a great interview with Coulthard a while back, he physically couldn't drive a car these days because he is out of shape.....couldn't even press the brake pedal hard enough on Rosbergs car.

the parameters have changed, but id say the modern sportsperson has a lot more to deal with than the fangios of the world, thankfully death isn't high up that list

The fitness required was different in previous eras - and that includes mental fitness. Mental fortitude was far more necessary then than now.

There is a comparison with rugby. Many great rugby players of earlier eras would not survive in this modern age of man-mountains. But that does not mean they should not be considered great rugby players - or that the attributes they possessed were somehow lacking.

[Eric Mc]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

swisstoni said:

If todays drivers were born when back in those days they would have driven the death traps with the same alacrity as the old-time greats.
Human nature doesn't change. One generation does not innately have more bottle than another.

If today's drivers were racing back in the death trap years they would all be dead.

Only if they drove as if they were driving a modern car. If they were driving back then, their approach would no doubt be different.

[swisstoni]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

swisstoni said:

If todays drivers were born when back in those days they would have driven the death traps with the same alacrity as the old-time greats.
Human nature doesn't change. One generation does not innately have more bottle than another.

If today's drivers were racing back in the death trap years they would all be dead.

Is this a setup for a gag or are you being dim?

[GOATever]

HighwayStar said:

Ok, I'll indulge you... Bottas is technically superior based on what? And if he is, why isn't running right behind Lewis at every race and right there on the right row or side by side on the grid as Nico invariably was? Straight question.

Straight answer is that Bottas quite likes driving for Mercedes. He isn’t going to give absolutely everything, yet, it’s more than his position is worth, having watched Bottas coming up through the ranks, and earning his super licence points, to my mind, he’s far more rounded and at least equally talented as Hamilton. Let’s not forget, you have to gain at least 40 super licence points, gained in the previous couple of seasons, to even get into the circus, ( with the exception of some very rare circumstances) there really aren’t any total mugs in F1. To my mind, having seen what’s what, and actually knowing what I’m looking at, Bottas could outperform Hamilton, given the opportunity, as could several of the drivers on the current grid.

[GOATever]

HustleRussell said:

What’s funny, the fact I know what’s what? Yeah properly hilarious that

[Blink982]

GOATever said:

Straight answer is that Bottas quite likes driving for Mercedes. He isn’t going to give absolutely everything, yet, it’s more than his position is worth, having watched Bottas coming up through the ranks, and earning his super licence points, to my mind, he’s far more rounded and at least equally talented as Hamilton. Let’s not forget, you have to gain at least 40 super licence points, gained in the previous couple of seasons, to even get into the circus, ( with the exception of some very rare circumstances) there really aren’t any total mugs in F1. To my mind, having seen what’s what, and actually knowing what I’m looking at, Bottas could outperform Hamilton, given the opportunity, as could several of the drivers on the current grid.

Pish.

[anonymous-user]

Polite M135 driver said:

I don't see how Schumacher can be placed be ahead of Hamilton:

- pretty much only ever had a subservient teammate
- custom tyres
- deliberate cheater (though perhaps not a premeditated cheater).

Funny why this keeps coming up about Schumacher and his crap teammate yet Mercedes have adopted the same policy now with Hamilton. Give him a teammate who will not bother him. And it's worked as Hamilton has had is best season knowing his teammate is not a threat at all.

Basically, the same as Schumacher did and is now performing even better.

I would, however, like to have seen Ricciardo in the Mercedes for 2019 to see what Hamilton is made of as he does have an issue if his teammate is giving him trouble. Just like we saw with Rosberg.

Schumacher might have had the number one status but many of his teammates stated he was a level above. Irvive for one.

Let's see if Hamilton can at least match Schumacher's record as he really does have the equipment and teammate to do so.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 29th October 14:23

[GOATever]

Exige77 said:

Hilarious post.

Really?

Exige77 said:

Are are serious ?

What makes you think I’m not?

Exige77 said:

Fangio era drivers where pretty brave, I’ll give you that but health and safety wasn’t what it is today in most walks of life, be it the battlefield or the factory floor.

Correct.

Exige77 said:

Not sure many Fangio era drivers would be up to scratch today in a modern F1 car and all the other stuff drivers need to do now.

We’ll never know. It’s a different game now.

[anonymous-user]

swisstoni said:

Is this a setup for a gag or are you being dim?

The original point was the gag.

[anonymous-user]

Eric Mc said:

The fitness required was different in previous eras - and that includes mental fitness. Mental fortitude was far more necessary then than now.

There is a comparison with rugby. Many great rugby players of earlier eras would not survive in this modern age of man-mountains. But that does not mean they should not be considered great rugby players - or that the attributes they possessed were somehow lacking.

Exactly.

Technology and fitness is a complete science now compared to even the late 80's

The fact you can adjust a car from the pits and the drivers can control so many systems shows the huge differences.

Its engineers have too much control.

[HustleRussell]

GOATever said:

HustleRussell said:

GOATever said:

Fair play to Hamilton, he was the best of the bunch this year, and kept his head when it wasn’t going quite right. However, comparing someone who drives a ( relatively) safe car, around what are ( relatively) safe, essentially overblown kart tracks, to someone who raced death traps, on very risky / dangerous circuits, and would not really be able expected to survive long enough to win 5 drivers titles, let alone actually do so, and go on to live a full life, isn’t really right. I won’t acknowledge him as British, until he pays U.K. taxes either. You can’t compare racing across eras, and when Fangio won his titles, a Grand Prix, was a very special, and not terribly common occurrence, compared to The sanitised facsimiles we see today. However ( other than the tax dodging) that’s out of Hamilton’s control. So fair play to him, he’s done the best job he could, with what he had. It will be interesting to see how the ( to my mind ) technically superior, but less experienced Bottas develops in years to come.

What’s funny, the fact I know what’s what? Yeah properly hilarious that

GOATever said:

Straight answer is that Bottas quite likes driving for Mercedes. He isn’t going to give absolutely everything, yet, it’s more than his position is worth, having watched Bottas coming up through the ranks, and earning his super licence points, to my mind, he’s far more rounded and at least equally talented as Hamilton. Let’s not forget, you have to gain at least 40 super licence points, gained in the previous couple of seasons, to even get into the circus, ( with the exception of some very rare circumstances) there really aren’t any total mugs in F1. To my mind, having seen what’s what, and actually knowing what I’m looking at, Bottas could outperform Hamilton, given the opportunity, as could several of the drivers on the current grid.

[sparta6]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Polite M135 driver said:

I don't see how Schumacher can be placed be ahead of Hamilton:

- pretty much only ever had a subservient teammate
- custom tyres
- deliberate cheater (though perhaps not a premeditated cheater).

Funny why this keeps coming up about Schumacher and his crap teammate yet Mercedes have adopted the same policy now with Hamilton. Give him a teammate who will not bother him. And it's worked as Hamilton has had is best season knowing his teammate is not a threat at all.

Basically, the same as Schumacher did and is now performing even better.

I would, however, like to have seen Ricciardo in the Mercedes for 2019 to see what Hamilton is made of as he does have an issue if his teammate is giving him trouble. Just like we saw with Rosberg.

Schumacher might have had the number one status but many of his teammates stated he was a level above. Irvive for one.

Let's see if Hamilton can at least match Schumacher's record as he really does have the equipment and teammate to do so.

Edited by ELUSIVEJIM on Monday 29th October 14:23

+1

Same ole crap about "subservient" team mates for Schumacher

The truth is MS was just massively quicker than all of them. Simple. Speak with Eddie or study the telemetry.

The only other massively fast driver around was Hakkinen, but he was unavailable and happily tucked up with uncle Ron.

By contrast Ricciardo, fast / hungry / available, could have been signed by Toto Wolfe for next year, but he has bottled it in fear of upsetting Hamilton.

[Kccv23highliftcam]

sparta6 said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Polite M135 driver said:

I don't see how Schumacher can be placed be ahead of Hamilton:

- pretty much only ever had a subservient teammate
- custom tyres
- deliberate cheater (though perhaps not a premeditated cheater).

Funny why this keeps coming up about Schumacher and his crap teammate yet Mercedes have adopted the same policy now with Hamilton. Give him a teammate who will not bother him. And it's worked as Hamilton has had is best season knowing his teammate is not a threat at all.

Basically, the same as Schumacher did and is now performing even better.

I would, however, like to have seen Ricciardo in the Mercedes for 2019 to see what Hamilton is made of as he does have an issue if his teammate is giving him trouble. Just like we saw with Rosberg.

Schumacher might have had the number one status but many of his teammates stated he was a level above. Irvive for one.

Let's see if Hamilton can at least match Schumacher's record as he really does have the equipment and teammate to do so.

Edited by ELUSIVEJIM on Monday 29th October 14:23

+1

Same ole crap about "subservient" team mates for Schumacher

The truth is MS was just massively quicker than all of them. Simple. Speak with Eddie or study the telemetry.

The only other massively fast driver around was Hakkinen, but he was unavailable and happily tucked up with uncle Ron.

By contrast Ricciardo, fast / hungry / available, could have been signed by Toto Wolfe for next year, but he has bottled it in fear of upsetting Hamilton.

Evidence.