Is Johnny Herbert on his period?

[whatxd]

Ali Chappussy said:

You can all look through your rose tinted glasses if you like but Schuey was a cheating bd who cost Damon a world title and caused problems at many tracks with his antics and Johnny had it spot on.

In 94, due to varying suspensions, Schumacher only scored points in 10 races. He won 8 of them and finished second in the other two. Hill only beat Schumacher on merit once in the entire season.

Say what you want about what went down at Adelaide (I have no doubt in my mind that it was deliberate) but it would've been nothing short of a travesty if Hill and been named champion that year.

Without all the BS suspensions, the title would've been wrapped up in record time and Hill should be thanking his lucky stars that he even had a sniff beyond the month of September in 1994.

[Hamsterdam]

Likes Fast Cars said:

+1
Alonso is an over-rated dick.

University research reveals greatest Formula One driver of all time

Statistical analysis suggests Juan Manuel Fangio is the greatest Formula One driver in history
Teams found to be around six times more important to success than individual drivers - and their importance has increased over time
Juan Manuel Fangio is the greatest Formula One driver of all time, according to new research by the University of Sheffield.


Dr Andrew Bell's study identified Fangio as the greatest F1 driver ever.

Dr Andrew Bell, of the Sheffield Methods Institute, used statistical analysis to work out who the sport’s most accomplished competitor is – looking at who is the best driver because of their talent, rather than because they have a good car.

Without considering the impact of his team, the greatest driver of all time in terms of most race wins is Michael Schumacher. But the study found that once the effect of his team is removed, legendary racer Fangio claims the top spot, followed by Alain Prost in second and Fernando Alonso in third position.

In fact, Schumacher drops to ninth place in this analysis – although his ranking is dragged down by his post-retirement performances in 2010-2012 when he was generally outperformed by his Mercedes teammate Nico Rosberg. If his pre-retirement career is considered on its own, he ranks in third position.

Of current drivers, Fernando Alonso is the highest ranked driver, and both he and Sebastian Vettel are ahead of reigning champion Lewis Hamilton.

The study, published in the Journal of Quantitative Analysis in Sports, also found:

Teams matter about six times more than drivers when it comes to success in F1.
About two-thirds of the team effect is consistent over time, with the rest caused by teams changing year-on-year.
Team effects have increased over time, but appear to be smaller on street circuits, where the driver’s skill plays a greater role.
Dr Bell said: “The question ‘who is the greatest F1 driver of all time’ is a difficult one to answer, because we don’t know the extent to which drivers do well because of their talent or because they are driving a good car. The question has fascinated fans for years and I’m sure will continue to do so.

“Our statistical model allows us to find a ranking and assess the relative importance of team and driver effects, and there are some surprising results. For example the relatively unknown Christian Fittipaldi is in the top 20, whilst three time champion Niki Lauda doesn’t even make the top 100. Had these drivers raced for different teams, their legacies might have been rather different.”

http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/greatest-formul...

[Likes Fast Cars]

& you know the old saying: there are lies, damns lies, and statistics.

[Dr Z]

Likes Fast Cars said:

& you know the old saying: there are lies, damns lies, and statistics.

A Reconstructed History of Formula 1

You might find this an interesting read. Get yourself a cup of coffee/tea first though.

Schumacher/Alonso are jointly awarded the most WDCs according to their performances alone.

[Ali Chappussy]

whatxd said:

Ali Chappussy said:

You can all look through your rose tinted glasses if you like but Schuey was a cheating bd who cost Damon a world title and caused problems at many tracks with his antics and Johnny had it spot on.

In 94, due to varying suspensions, Schumacher only scored points in 10 races. He won 8 of them and finished second in the other two. Hill only beat Schumacher on merit once in the entire season.

Say what you want about what went down at Adelaide (I have no doubt in my mind that it was deliberate) but it would've been nothing short of a travesty if Hill and been named champion that year.

Without all the BS suspensions, the title would've been wrapped up in record time and Hill should be thanking his lucky stars that he even had a sniff beyond the month of September in 1994.

Thank you Michael for clearing this up and congratulations on making such a remarkable recovery to enable you to send this message to us.

p.s. I still think you are a cheating bd.

[cgt2]

Hamsterdam said:

University research reveals greatest Formula One driver of all time

Statistical analysis suggests Juan Manuel Fangio is the greatest Formula One driver in history
Teams found to be around six times more important to success than individual drivers - and their importance has increased over time
Juan Manuel Fangio is the greatest Formula One driver of all time, according to new research by the University of Sheffield.


Dr Andrew Bell's study identified Fangio as the greatest F1 driver ever.

Dr Andrew Bell, of the Sheffield Methods Institute, used statistical analysis to work out who the sport’s most accomplished competitor is – looking at who is the best driver because of their talent, rather than because they have a good car.

Without considering the impact of his team, the greatest driver of all time in terms of most race wins is Michael Schumacher. But the study found that once the effect of his team is removed, legendary racer Fangio claims the top spot, followed by Alain Prost in second and Fernando Alonso in third position.

In fact, Schumacher drops to ninth place in this analysis – although his ranking is dragged down by his post-retirement performances in 2010-2012 when he was generally outperformed by his Mercedes teammate Nico Rosberg. If his pre-retirement career is considered on its own, he ranks in third position.

Of current drivers, Fernando Alonso is the highest ranked driver, and both he and Sebastian Vettel are ahead of reigning champion Lewis Hamilton.

The study, published in the Journal of Quantitative Analysis in Sports, also found:

Teams matter about six times more than drivers when it comes to success in F1.
About two-thirds of the team effect is consistent over time, with the rest caused by teams changing year-on-year.
Team effects have increased over time, but appear to be smaller on street circuits, where the driver’s skill plays a greater role.
Dr Bell said: “The question ‘who is the greatest F1 driver of all time’ is a difficult one to answer, because we don’t know the extent to which drivers do well because of their talent or because they are driving a good car. The question has fascinated fans for years and I’m sure will continue to do so.

“Our statistical model allows us to find a ranking and assess the relative importance of team and driver effects, and there are some surprising results. For example the relatively unknown Christian Fittipaldi is in the top 20, whilst three time champion Niki Lauda doesn’t even make the top 100. Had these drivers raced for different teams, their legacies might have been rather different.”

http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/greatest-formul...

Christian Fittipaldi is a greater F1 Driver than Alberto Ascari and Niki Lauda? Clearly the work of some pissed up students who got their figures mixed up..

[cgt2]

Ali Chappussy said:

Thank you Michael for clearing this up and congratulations on making such a remarkable recovery to enable you to send this message to us.

p.s. I still think you are a cheating bd.

It's ironic you say this so vehemently when Damon Hill himself, in his most recent F1 Racing column, admits he was never on a level anywhere near MS and expresses surprise that he got as close as he did. Damon is honest and upfront as ever.

Lapses of judgment or no, he was the greatest driver of his generation without question, acknowledged as such by his peers, who know far more than you or I.

[cgt2]

And back on topic, Johnny Herbert continues to bang the tabloid drum for his paymaster Murdoch who loves controversy...

I wonder if it's a requirement of working for Sky to make up stories and be controversial rather than focusing on facts?

[Ali Chappussy]

cgt2 said:

Ali Chappussy said:

Thank you Michael for clearing this up and congratulations on making such a remarkable recovery to enable you to send this message to us.

p.s. I still think you are a cheating bd.

Lapses of judgment or no,

Are you serious, lapses of judgment, you are having a fking laugh aren't you?

[Likes Fast Cars]

Dr Z said:

A Reconstructed History of Formula 1

You might find this an interesting read. Get yourself a cup of coffee/tea first though.

Schumacher/Alonso are jointly awarded the most WDCs according to their performances alone.

Interesting read, thanks.

Schumacher & Alonso together on exactly the same number of titles, 2 peas in a pod. Can't help but comment that these two unique personalities with similar reputations are equally ranked ....

[markcoznottz]

cgt2 said:

Ali Chappussy said:

Thank you Michael for clearing this up and congratulations on making such a remarkable recovery to enable you to send this message to us.

p.s. I still think you are a cheating bd.

It's ironic you say this so vehemently when Damon Hill himself, in his most recent F1 Racing column, admits he was never on a level anywhere near MS and expresses surprise that he got as close as he did. Damon is honest and upfront as ever.

Lapses of judgment or no, he was the greatest driver of his generation without question, acknowledged as such by his peers, who know far more than you or I.

Hill did very well considering how late he started and his Heart was really in motorbike racing.

[deadslow]

markcoznottz said:

cgt2 said:

Ali Chappussy said:

Thank you Michael for clearing this up and congratulations on making such a remarkable recovery to enable you to send this message to us.

p.s. I still think you are a cheating bd.

It's ironic you say this so vehemently when Damon Hill himself, in his most recent F1 Racing column, admits he was never on a level anywhere near MS and expresses surprise that he got as close as he did. Damon is honest and upfront as ever.

Lapses of judgment or no, he was the greatest driver of his generation without question, acknowledged as such by his peers, who know far more than you or I.

Hill did very well considering how late he started and his Heart was really in motorbike racing.

Wasn't Hill WDC just 3 years after getting a race seat?

[Thundersports]

deadslow said:

Wasn't Hill WDC just 3 years after getting a race seat?

Nope he was in his fourth year with Williams after spending a handful of races trying to qualify a dog of a Brabham in 1992. He had some serious testing mileage under his belt with Williams before getting a race seat. He was very fast once he got a decent drive in F3000 under rated driver in the MS F1 era. Should you be lucky enough to meet him he is a real gentleman and very pleasant.

[carinaman]

Raced motorcycles too.

[hairyben]

Dr Z said:

Likes Fast Cars said:

& you know the old saying: there are lies, damns lies, and statistics.

A Reconstructed History of Formula 1

You might find this an interesting read. Get yourself a cup of coffee/tea first though.

Schumacher/Alonso are jointly awarded the most WDCs according to their performances alone.

I'm sorry, I'm of the opinion that most of that kind of stuff is inherently flawed anyway so apologies if I've missed something in my brief look, but if you're going to go about some potty crusade to reconstruct the results of F1 you can start by dividing most of schumachers results by half for never having to race his teammate!

[Dr Z]

hairyben said:

I'm sorry, I'm of the opinion that most of that kind of stuff is inherently flawed anyway so apologies if I've missed something in my brief look, but if you're going to go about some potty crusade to reconstruct the results of F1 you can start by dividing most of schumachers results by half for never having to race his teammate!

Are you sure about this pre-2000? Obviously that mathematical model doesn't account for team orders, but that's been recognised. As is, the difficulty in comparing drivers across eras...but we can have a go at it using their junior careers and comparison with team mates.

[hairyben]

Dr Z said:

hairyben said:

I'm sorry, I'm of the opinion that most of that kind of stuff is inherently flawed anyway so apologies if I've missed something in my brief look, but if you're going to go about some potty crusade to reconstruct the results of F1 you can start by dividing most of schumachers results by half for never having to race his teammate!

Are you sure about this pre-2000? Obviously that mathematical model doesn't account for team orders, but that's been recognised. As is, the difficulty in comparing drivers across eras...but we can have a go at it using their junior careers and comparison with team mates.

That leaves over half his career and most of his success though doesn't it... And, recognised by way of factoring or simply noted?

[markcoznottz]

Dr Z said:

hairyben said:

I'm sorry, I'm of the opinion that most of that kind of stuff is inherently flawed anyway so apologies if I've missed something in my brief look, but if you're going to go about some potty crusade to reconstruct the results of F1 you can start by dividing most of schumachers results by half for never having to race his teammate!

Are you sure about this pre-2000? Obviously that mathematical model doesn't account for team orders, but that's been recognised. As is, the difficulty in comparing drivers across eras...but we can have a go at it using their junior careers and comparison with team mates.

Certainly is a confusing sport, the worst thing about f1 is that it poses more questions than it answers, and despite what people say it HAS been scripted at various times.Ron Dennis himself is on record as saying that prosts engines were hobbled in 1988, Honda loved Senna, but may have hated Prost winning the 87 title which Honda spent $ mega to win. I also found an old article about the 1996 Spanish Grand Prix, Schumacher had the spare car in a wet set up, the benefit of absolute no1 status, thus he cleared of in the race, everyone else's car was undriveable , with inevitable results.

[anonymous-user]

markcoznottz said:

Certainly is a confusing sport, the worst thing about f1 is that it poses more questions than it answers, and despite what people say it HAS been scripted at various times.Ron Dennis himself is on record as saying that prosts engines were hobbled in 1988, Honda loved Senna, but may have hated Prost winning the 87 title which Honda spent $ mega to win. I also found an old article about the 1996 Spanish Grand Prix, Schumacher had the spare car in a wet set up, the benefit of absolute no1 status, thus he cleared of in the race, everyone else's car was undriveable , with inevitable results.

I've read that he had been using both his 'own' car and the spare earlier in the weekend and found the spare to be quicker so it was chosen for the race. During the warm up he found he was way behind the Williams so gambled on a full wet set up on that car with the results we all saw.

Nothing to stop any other team from using the spare nor any other driver from gambling on a full wet set up.

At the end of the race he had a 45s lead, down from 1m at the greatest, though he did come from behind. After 65 laps that would indicate that not all the other cars were undrivable, though clearly some of the drivers weren't able to manage theirs.

[Smollet]

markcoznottz said:

Certainly is a confusing sport, the worst thing about f1 is that it poses more questions than it answers, and despite what people say it HAS been scripted at various times.Ron Dennis himself is on record as saying that prosts engines were hobbled in 1988, Honda loved Senna, but may have hated Prost winning the 87 title which Honda spent $ mega to win. I also found an old article about the 1996 Spanish Grand Prix, Schumacher had the spare car in a wet set up, the benefit of absolute no1 status, thus he cleared of in the race, everyone else's car was undriveable , with inevitable results.

Piquet won the 87 title driving a Williams Honda.