Official 2023 Saudi Arabia Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[paulguitar]

HustleRussell said:

I disagree actually, Verstappen and Leclerc had a few spicy battles on track last season with Leclerc appearing to give as good as he got and Verstappen drove fairly as far as I remember.

My running hypothesis is that Verstappen only really gets the red mist when it's Hamilton for some reason.

The reason this comes to mind now is the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix. 2021 was Verstappen vs. Hamilton, and Verstappen's driving was at it's absolute worst. I think that brake check was the worst thing I've seen him do- the top of a long list of bad things. 2022 was vs Leclerc, they exchanged places cleanly and Verstappen was full of praise for Leclerc afterwards. Very similar battle both years actually, gaming the DRS zones.

That 2021 Saidi Arabia GP was properly stressful. Verstappen had binned it in quali and was acting properly unbalanced throughout the race. I was genuinely relieved after it was over that nobody had been injured.

[mat205125]

Given that the Red Bull strengths at Bahrain were in the corners rather than the straight line speed traps, I can't see anyone getting a look in to stop another one-two.

Ferrari and Aston to duke it out for the third podium spot.

Mercedes to be troubled by Alpine and maybe Alfa too ........... Bottas to beat Hamilton?

[suffolk009]

HTP99 said:

vaud said:

PhilAsia said:

Max' Achilles heel is, imho, his inability to see further than winning the next corner.

Younger Max, yes, but he's matured a lot in the last 18 months.

Mmmm, we've not seen him yet in a credible fight for wins and the title since his frankly appalling driving in 2021, last year he walked it, this year it looks as though he may, I'll reserve judgment until he is actually fighting for the title, personally I think if that happens he will revert to previous form.

Edited by HTP99 on Tuesday 14th March 09:06

Leopards. Spots.

[Piginapoke]

HustleRussell said:

PhilAsia said:

paulguitar said:

HustleRussell said:

paulguitar said:

HustleRussell said:

...against Leclerc and other drivers. However he very clearly has a massive bee in his bonnet about Hamilton for some reason and drives entirely differently against him.

Yes, he does seem to be very triggered by 8-time WDC Lewis. Not that it is likely to be an issue this season...

Will be interesting if he can race fairly against Alonso. His usual explanation for how well he behaves when racing against Leclerc, for example, compared to Hamilton is that he came up alongside Leclerc and other drivers his age so he can race against them well.

I really hope that is something we get to see. Some potential for fireworks there.

I genuinely feel Max has gone the route of "smashing into others to get the point across, until they ultimately steer clear every time". Once he then has the side-by-side 'fear of collision advantage', having a better performing car cements the deal.

All the drivers that grew up "racing" with Max learnt how he would go beyond what is reasonably expected sporting behavior and that is why they keep away from him. Lewis was an unknown and we saw how that went. Expect more of the same for Alonso if there it is clear he can actu-a-l-l-y challenge Max for the WDC, but slightly tamped down a bit because he does not have 8 titles...

I disagree actually, Verstappen and Leclerc had a few spicy battles on track last season with Leclerc appearing to give as good as he got and Verstappen drove fairly as far as I remember.

My running hypothesis is that Verstappen only really gets the red mist when it's Hamilton for some reason.

The reason this comes to mind now is the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix. 2021 was Verstappen vs. Hamilton, and Verstappen's driving was at it's absolute worst. I think that brake check was the worst thing I've seen him do- the top of a long list of bad things. 2022 was vs Leclerc, they exchanged places cleanly and Verstappen was full of praise for Leclerc afterwards. Very similar battle both years actually, gaming the DRS zones.

You’re right, it’s Hamilton that gives Max red mist, with other drivers he’s races excellently and cleanly. I think it’s all to do with a hangover from Copse corner.

[paulguitar]

Piginapoke said:

You’re right, it’s Hamilton that gives Max red mist, with other drivers he’s races excellently and cleanly. I think it’s all to do with a hangover from Copse corner.

There were plenty of dodgy moves from him before that incident. Granted, he did get even worse thereafter.

[Byker28i]

vaud said:

PhilAsia said:

Max' Achilles heel is, imho, his inability to see further than winning the next corner.

Younger Max, yes, but he's matured a lot in the last 18 months.

I doubt that, whats really happened is he's not been challenged, not had to fight because he's been away in front

[Piginapoke]

paulguitar said:

Piginapoke said:

You’re right, it’s Hamilton that gives Max red mist, with other drivers he’s races excellently and cleanly. I think it’s all to do with a hangover from Copse corner.

There were plenty of dodgy moves from him before that incident. Granted, he did get even worse thereafter.

Oh Max did plenty of naughty things when he started out, weaving in the braking area, driving people off the track etc. I think he’s matured though, last year when racing with leclerc was textbook really.

[Byker28i]

RiseUp said:

When Aramco makes $160 billion profit, I highly doubt they care right now.

I read that as Armco and thought, hang on Romain Grosjean isn't driving F1 anymore

[Frimley111R]

Piginapoke said:

paulguitar said:

Piginapoke said:

You’re right, it’s Hamilton that gives Max red mist, with other drivers he’s races excellently and cleanly. I think it’s all to do with a hangover from Copse corner.

There were plenty of dodgy moves from him before that incident. Granted, he did get even worse thereafter.

Oh Max did plenty of naughty things when he started out, weaving in the braking area, driving people off the track etc. I think he’s matured though, last year when racing with leclerc was textbook really.

It's much easier when you're in the fastest car...

[paulguitar]

Piginapoke said:

paulguitar said:

Piginapoke said:

You’re right, it’s Hamilton that gives Max red mist, with other drivers he’s races excellently and cleanly. I think it’s all to do with a hangover from Copse corner.

There were plenty of dodgy moves from him before that incident. Granted, he did get even worse thereafter.

Oh Max did plenty of naughty things when he started out, weaving in the braking area, driving people off the track etc. I think he’s matured though, last year when racing with leclerc was textbook really.

He was definitely much better last year, he raced cleanly with LeClerc for the lead several times at the start of last season.

[Byker28i]

Frimley111R said:

It's much easier when you're in the much faster car...

corrected for you

[cgt2]

pablo said:

Alonso will yield

He will not. And I suspect he is already in Max's head after Bahrain. Max will want to qualify on pole and stay way out front to avoid any engagement with Alonso, but it is inevitable that at some point this season they will be jostling.

Alonso is way stronger mentally than most of the field, much as the sight of Senna used to make drivers wee themselves there is a bit of that effect. Indeed that attitude has been the defining characteristic of Nando's entire career.

[paulguitar]

cgt2 said:

He will not. And I suspect he is already in Max's head after Bahrain. Max will want to qualify on pole and stay way out front to avoid any engagement with Alonso, but it is inevitable that at some point this season they will be jostling.

Alonso is way stronger mentally than most of the field, much as the sight of Senna used to make drivers wee themselves there is a bit of that effect. Indeed that attitude has been the defining characteristic of Nando's entire career.

2007 must have been a genuine nightmare for him, psychologically.

[thegreenhell]

HustleRussell said:

pablo said:

Alonso will yield

I think, in an equal fight for position, Alonso has the racecraft to make Max look very amateur.

[Fundoreen]

The seem to be playing down the Aston form for the season due to the fact it 'takes years to put on microseconds' according to people that like a long term job putting on microseconds.
But AM did a big chunk in 3 months...and they have plenty or development window compared to RB.
A bit or rock solid reliability and some red bull blow ups and the game is a foot.

[HustleRussell]

Fundoreen said:

The seem to be playing down the Aston form for the season due to the fact it 'takes years to put on microseconds' according to people that like a long term job putting on microseconds.
But AM did a big chunk in 3 months...and they have plenty or development window compared to RB.
A bit or rock solid reliability and some red bull blow ups and the game is a foot.

I will take some convincing that Aston Martin are legitimately 2nd over the balance of this season let alone championship contending. If they are 2nd it is IMO a herculean turnaround.

Can they operate and develop in a similar way to the best team, which you'd have to say is Red Bull.

Was it Bahrain 2020 or 2021 where Norris started 4th and was threatening to pass Mercedes in the first few corners? The most recent Mclaren false dawn.

It pains me to say all this because I can't wait for the commercial changes the sport has undergone, and the changes to technical and sporting regs, to precipitate a more mixed grid with more players at the front. However I didn't expect it to happen so fast.

It only takes a small improvement from a couple of teams, or an inconsistency in the performance of the Aston, to make Aston's performance at the start of this season look like a flash in the pan.

[gt_12345]

paua said:

Bottas came there because he couldn't pass or defend against a dump-truck on bin day.

To be fair some of them can annoyingly put it in the middle of the road

[Snappy89]

Aston aren't expected to be as competitive here and Merc is likely to be a little more competitive.

Indeed, Merc have a new floor for this weekend also so we shall see how that affects proceedings. Aston's straight line speed wasn't the best at Bahrain. They might not be so nailed on if they have to give up some rear downforce to compensate.

[Niponeoff]

HustleRussell said:

I disagree actually, Verstappen and Leclerc had a few spicy battles on track last season with Leclerc appearing to give as good as he got and Verstappen drove fairly as far as I remember.

My running hypothesis is that Verstappen only really gets the red mist when it's Hamilton for some reason.

The reason this comes to mind now is the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix. 2021 was Verstappen vs. Hamilton, and Verstappen's driving was at it's absolute worst. I think that brake check was the worst thing I've seen him do- the top of a long list of bad things. 2022 was vs Leclerc, they exchanged places cleanly and Verstappen was full of praise for Leclerc afterwards. Very similar battle both years actually, gaming the DRS zones.

The gaming of the DRS zones was a very shrewd move by leclerc. He's some driver in the right car.

[cgt2]

paulguitar said:

2007 must have been a genuine nightmare for him, psychologically.

He learned a lot that season. If it hadn't been such a wake up call he probably wouldn't be the driver he is today. He said so himself in that documentary about his Ferrari years.