Senna Love-in

[skwdenyer]

I know precisely where I was when I heard Senna had died. I don't think I can say the same for most notable deaths - including Bianchi's. I wasn't a raging fanboy; it was just so unexpected. We had become accustomed to drivers cheating death in terrible crashes; we'd become used to Senna achieving seemingly-impossible feats in a car.

[Sandpit Steve]

anonymous_user said:

Stealthracer said:

I'm with the OP. I was never a Senna fan, indeed I lost all respect for him when he took Prost out at Suzuka, and even admitted afterwards it was deliberate

My opinion was and still is, that for a cynical move like that which could so easily have resulted in a death or deaths, he should have been banned from motorsport for good - and probably would still be alive today.

I also agree that in recent years, mawkishness has increased to the point where it's just plain nauseating.

after Suzuka '89 Prost would have had a fair idea what was coming

Especially after Frenchman FIA President Balestre had switched the side for pole position after the qualifying session. It was a different era, and they worked to their own rules and standards. Prost must have known there was going to be a crash, just has he did the previous year.

I put a very long post in the other Senna thread, but to make it shorter the death of Senna hitt me really hard, as a 16-year-old karter who’d never experienced a death in the family since I understood what death meant, and I’d watched it live on TV (thankfully with the BBC rather than the Eurosport pictures). I’ve never experienced that feeling again, for anyone except close relations.

The tributes at Imola were great, and I’m sure those at Monaco will be great too.

[KGP04]

Also with the OP, it's almost as if Senna is the only F1 driver to have ever passed, ignoring everyone else.

A 25 year old dating a 14 / 15 year old is also seemingly never mentioned at all. I get times change and if that was today the driver in question would probably be locked up before they got to the circuit at the weekend but it's odd that Senna is spoken / viewed as almost God like by some

[Coatesy351]

Sandpit Steve said:

Especially after Frenchman FIA President Balestre had switched the side for pole position after the qualifying session.

This is a myth.

[StevieBee]

24lemons said:

Off topic I know but seeing the tributes to both Senna and Ratzenberger reminded me how iconic helmet designs used to be. The fact that a drivers identity could be distilled down to a few bold stripes which will forever be recognised.

I can’t think of many current drivers who could be readily identified from their helmet design

There used to be a game show called You Bet where contestants claimed they could do something and then had to demonstrate this feat in front of a TV audience.

I applied with the feat of being able to identify any driver from 1976 to what would have been then the late 80s by the design of their helmet. I never heard back from them but someone else did exactly the same thing.

I don't think either of us could do the same today.

[anonymous_user]

Coatesy351 said:

Sandpit Steve said:

Especially after Frenchman FIA President Balestre had switched the side for pole position after the qualifying session.

This is a myth.

sort of. Senna wanted it switched to the clean side (& iirc days before qualifying) & again iirc RD/ race organisers agreed with Senna- Balestre later overruled for whatever reason- the controversy being that it was usually left up to the race organisers to decide, not the FIA

that it was switched for every subsequent year kind of says it all really

Edited by anonymous_user on Thursday 23 May 10:25

[Siao]

Sandpit Steve said:

anonymous_user said:

Stealthracer said:

I'm with the OP. I was never a Senna fan, indeed I lost all respect for him when he took Prost out at Suzuka, and even admitted afterwards it was deliberate

My opinion was and still is, that for a cynical move like that which could so easily have resulted in a death or deaths, he should have been banned from motorsport for good - and probably would still be alive today.

I also agree that in recent years, mawkishness has increased to the point where it's just plain nauseating.

after Suzuka '89 Prost would have had a fair idea what was coming

Especially after Frenchman FIA President Balestre had switched the side for pole position after the qualifying session. It was a different era, and they worked to their own rules and standards. Prost must have known there was going to be a crash, just has he did the previous year.

I put a very long post in the other Senna thread, but to make it shorter the death of Senna hitt me really hard, as a 16-year-old karter who’d never experienced a death in the family since I understood what death meant, and I’d watched it live on TV (thankfully with the BBC rather than the Eurosport pictures). I’ve never experienced that feeling again, for anyone except close relations.

The tributes at Imola were great, and I’m sure those at Monaco will be great too.

Not this again. Balestre didn't just switch the pole position out of his head. It was always on that side, just check the starts from the previous Suzuka years. Senna went to the stewards and had it switched to suit him. He was clever, because he had messed up his starts the years before, so he wanted to have it changed. But it wasn't sanctioned by the FIA or anything like that.

But I think that the narrative that Balestre (who was no saint mind) stuffed him is just wrong.

[paulguitar]

anonymous_user said:

after Suzuka '89 Prost would have had a fair idea what was coming

Prost took Senna out in '89.

[anonymous_user]

paulguitar said:

anonymous_user said:

after Suzuka '89 Prost would have had a fair idea what was coming

Prost took Senna out in '89.

that was my point

[paulguitar]

anonymous_user said:

paulguitar said:

anonymous_user said:

after Suzuka '89 Prost would have had a fair idea what was coming

Prost took Senna out in '89.

that was my point

Ah, okay

[DaveTheRave87]

LM240 said:

I just see the 1992 Benetton. No bad thing because it was a good looking car.



I guess a tobacco lookalike would have caused too much of an issue.

[Bo_apex]

skwdenyer said:

We had become accustomed to drivers cheating death in terrible crashes; we'd become used to Senna achieving seemingly-impossible feats in a car.

^^this^^
and Senna remains the guvnor of Monaco.

Only Graham Hill and Michael Schumacher got close.

[Forester1965]

And Oliver Panis. Don't forget Oliver Panis.

[paulguitar]

Bo_apex said:

^^this^^
and Senna remains the guvnor of Monaco.

Only Graham Hill and Michael Schumacher got close.

The fact that Graham Hill won so many times there says a lot about Monaco. Hill was not in the same league as Moss or Clark. They won there twice and never, respectively.

[Leithen]

Monaco is a curio for me. Dramatic, especially in the wet, and all the more so when the cars were entirely manual, smaller and narrower.

Some drivers obviously revel in the challenge, but to win requires equal parts of genius, competitive machinery and luck. Three of Senna’s wins were handed to him and he threw one away.

It’s pretty dull now thanks to the ridiculous size of today’s F1 cars. Qualifying is entertaining, but for this one circuit alone, I’d like to see the solo single shot lap format return. I always fear there will be the mother of all collisions with fast/slow cars.

I’ll never forget Derek Daly’s flying Tyrrell.

[Siao]

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

^^this^^
and Senna remains the guvnor of Monaco.

Only Graham Hill and Michael Schumacher got close.

The fact that Graham Hill won so many times there says a lot about Monaco. Hill was not in the same league as Moss or Clark. They won there twice and never, respectively.

I'm not sure about this. It could be that it says a lot about Hill. Drivers do have favourite tracks.

[Bo_apex]

Siao said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

^^this^^
and Senna remains the guvnor of Monaco.

Only Graham Hill and Michael Schumacher got close.

The fact that Graham Hill won so many times there says a lot about Monaco. Hill was not in the same league as Moss or Clark. They won there twice and never, respectively.

I'm not sure about this. It could be that it says a lot about Hill. Drivers do have favourite tracks.

Agree.

Monaco rewards those rare creatures that can dance on the edge for 100% of each lap.

[paulguitar]

Bo_apex said:

Agree.

Monaco rewards those rare creatures that can dance on the edge for 100% of each lap.

Realistically, you can drive around at way off 100% pace and nobody can pass. 1992 was a great example. Senna was probably 4 seconds per lap off the pace and Mansell had no way past him without taking them both off. Nigel knew it, Ayton knew it.

And didn't Ricciardo win there once with his entire hybrid system on the blink?

[Bo_apex]

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

Agree.

Monaco rewards those rare creatures that can dance on the edge for 100% of each lap.

Realistically, you can drive around at way off 100% pace and nobody can pass. 1992 was a great example. Senna was probably 4 seconds per lap off the pace and Mansell had no way past him without taking them both off. Nigel knew it, Ayton knew it.

And didn't Ricciardo win there once with his entire hybrid system on the blink?

Quali.
Monaco provides the most acute jeopardy in F1.

[paulguitar]

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

Agree.

Monaco rewards those rare creatures that can dance on the edge for 100% of each lap.

Realistically, you can drive around at way off 100% pace and nobody can pass. 1992 was a great example. Senna was probably 4 seconds per lap off the pace and Mansell had no way past him without taking them both off. Nigel knew it, Ayton knew it.

And didn't Ricciardo win there once with his entire hybrid system on the blink?

Quali.
Monaco provides the most acute jeopardy in F1.

Yeah, it's a challenge in quali.