Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

[Teddy Lop]

pablo said:

Max didn’t choke, he wasn’t making mistakes, choking is the reversion from implicit to explicit. Max purposely chose a different strategy during the latter races which was, rather than drive as fast as he can to score as many points as possible, he changed his behaviour and chose instead, to reduce his opponent’s chance of gaining points. See Brazil, Saudia Arabia and Abu Dhabi.

This, max did not "choke", max drove exactly how max has always driven - he's damn fast, but with very little racecraft, which stands to reason as that's what you learn by doing your time in the lower formula. "Get out of my way or we crash", as a consistent strategy, would get you little more than DNFs if you tried it in F2 etc

For the last few years he's been in bit of no man's land between the front runners and the rest so this has been masked, what was different this year is that he had a car with pace roughly equivalent to his main competitor so needs to fight wheel to wheel for position, and his inability is plain to see. But, when you seem to be able to drive to a slightly different rulebook than the other 19 cars, when race direction seem to keep missing you and your teams various indiscretions, I guess its enough.

[Dr Interceptor]

On board with Lewis having a run out in the W13 at Silverstone

https://youtu.be/XEzNirEeRzQ

[Digga]

MustangGT said:

Digga said:

Brake tests under safety car are not without precedent. Not arguing all brake testing is ‘fine’ but backing the pack up and getting a good re-start is a key strategy.

That is not brake testing. Please provide a genuine example of brake testing whilst under safety car rules?

It’s all subjective. It’s not the first time this sort of thing has happened between drivers either.

ETA not trying to completely absolve Max, but a bit of balance perhaps. Things are not so black and white as some make out.

Edited by Digga on Sunday 20th February 17:20

[swisstoni]

Digga said:

MustangGT said:

Digga said:

Brake tests under safety car are not without precedent. Not arguing all brake testing is ‘fine’ but backing the pack up and getting a good re-start is a key strategy.

That is not brake testing. Please provide a genuine example of brake testing whilst under safety car rules?

It’s all subjective. It’s not the first time this sort of thing has happened between drivers either.

It’s brake warming under SC. All drivers are doing it and all drivers are aware that other drivers are doing it.

Hitting the brakes down a straight when the other driver isn’t expecting it is what’s called a ‘brake test’.

As I’m sure you know well.

If other drivers have done the same, then that is st too.

[micky g]

I thought that Max had slowed considerably as he wanted Hamilton to pass on that straight to give him DRS on the following straight. Hamilton didn't want to pass there for the same reason and consequently Max braked to force him past.
It's a distant memory now and I've not re-watched it so could well be wrong.

[swisstoni]

micky g said:

I thought that Max had slowed considerably as he wanted Hamilton to pass on that straight to give him DRS on the following straight. Hamilton didn't want to pass there for the same reason and consequently Max braked to force him past.
It's a distant memory now and I've not re-watched it so could well be wrong.

He knew exactly where Hamilton was when he braked.
Somewhere he was lucky, (actually amazingly skillful) not to lose his front wing.

[PhilAsia]

micky g said:

I thought that Max had slowed considerably as he wanted Hamilton to pass on that straight to give him DRS on the following straight. Hamilton didn't want to pass there for the same reason and consequently Max braked to force him past.
It's a distant memory now and I've not re-watched it so could well be wrong.

Micky, have you ever been following someone closely when they unexpectedly slam their brakes on? In a road car the deceleration is at 1g (approx)...Max was decelerating at 2.4g with Lewis so close!! There was no way Lewis could react in time!!

Max knew exactly where Lewis was. His only mistake (if it was a mistake) was to hold the brake on fractionally too long before gunning it.

[Siao]

Dr Interceptor said:

On board with Lewis having a run out in the W13 at Silverstone

https://youtu.be/XEzNirEeRzQ

Thanks for sharing, beautiful car.

I'm expecting some "wings are flexing" comments (at about the 0:50 mark)...


Edit to add: what's with the full wets on a dry sunny day?

[RB Will]

Siao said:

Edit to add: what's with the full wets on a dry sunny day?

Probably so it doesn’t count as testing / data gathering.

[Siao]

RB Will said:

Siao said:

Edit to add: what's with the full wets on a dry sunny day?

Probably so it doesn’t count as testing / data gathering.

Thanks, certainly a possibility I guess

[Digga]

Siao said:

RB Will said:

Siao said:

Edit to add: what's with the full wets on a dry sunny day?

Probably so it doesn’t count as testing / data gathering.

Thanks, certainly a possibility I guess

Maybe to do with temperature.

Is it too cold for slicks to work?

[BigBen]

Digga said:

Siao said:

RB Will said:

Siao said:

Edit to add: what's with the full wets on a dry sunny day?

Probably so it doesn’t count as testing / data gathering.

Thanks, certainly a possibility I guess

Maybe to do with temperature.

Is it too cold for slicks to work?

IIRC they have an allowance for a certain number of media laps each year which are done on control tyres, i.e. special ones that seriously limit the amount of useful data that can be generated to avoid teams doing 1,000,000 media laps which are not testing honestly.....

[Siao]

BigBen said:

Digga said:

Siao said:

RB Will said:

Siao said:

Edit to add: what's with the full wets on a dry sunny day?

Probably so it doesn’t count as testing / data gathering.

Thanks, certainly a possibility I guess

Maybe to do with temperature.

Is it too cold for slicks to work?

IIRC they have an allowance for a certain number of media laps each year which are done on control tyres, i.e. special ones that seriously limit the amount of useful data that can be generated to avoid teams doing 1,000,000 media laps which are not testing honestly.....

[MustangGT]

Digga said:

MustangGT said:

Digga said:

Brake tests under safety car are not without precedent. Not arguing all brake testing is ‘fine’ but backing the pack up and getting a good re-start is a key strategy.

That is not brake testing. Please provide a genuine example of brake testing whilst under safety car rules?

It’s all subjective. It’s not the first time this sort of thing has happened between drivers either.

ETA not trying to completely absolve Max, but a bit of balance perhaps. Things are not so black and white as some make out.

Edited by Digga on Sunday 20th February 17:20

It is not subjective in the slightest. Brake warming behind the safety car is usual accepted and done by everybody. As somebody else pointed out braking under race conditions in the middle of a straight is brake testing.

[PhilAsia]

MustangGT said:

Digga said:

MustangGT said:

Digga said:

Brake tests under safety car are not without precedent. Not arguing all brake testing is ‘fine’ but backing the pack up and getting a good re-start is a key strategy.

That is not brake testing. Please provide a genuine example of brake testing whilst under safety car rules?

It’s all subjective. It’s not the first time this sort of thing has happened between drivers either.

ETA not trying to completely absolve Max, but a bit of balance perhaps. Things are not so black and white as some make out.

Edited by Digga on Sunday 20th February 17:20

It is not subjective in the slightest. Brake warming behind the safety car is usual accepted and done by everybody. As somebody else pointed out braking under race conditions in the middle of a straight is brake testing.

It is the difference between being behind a car that brakes as the traffic light goes red, and driving along a clear motorway and the car in front slams their brakes on for no reason.

One is normal and expected Digga. You guess...

[Siao]

PhilAsia said:

MustangGT said:

Digga said:

MustangGT said:

Digga said:

Brake tests under safety car are not without precedent. Not arguing all brake testing is ‘fine’ but backing the pack up and getting a good re-start is a key strategy.

That is not brake testing. Please provide a genuine example of brake testing whilst under safety car rules?

It’s all subjective. It’s not the first time this sort of thing has happened between drivers either.

ETA not trying to completely absolve Max, but a bit of balance perhaps. Things are not so black and white as some make out.

Edited by Digga on Sunday 20th February 17:20

It is not subjective in the slightest. Brake warming behind the safety car is usual accepted and done by everybody. As somebody else pointed out braking under race conditions in the middle of a straight is brake testing.

It is the difference between being behind a car that brakes as the traffic light goes red, and driving along a clear motorway and the car in front slams their brakes on for no reason.

One is normal and expected Digga. You guess...

You do realise, I hope, that the car behind is still responsible for rear ending someone...

[PhilAsia]

Siao said:

PhilAsia said:

MustangGT said:

Digga said:

MustangGT said:

Digga said:

Brake tests under safety car are not without precedent. Not arguing all brake testing is ‘fine’ but backing the pack up and getting a good re-start is a key strategy.

That is not brake testing. Please provide a genuine example of brake testing whilst under safety car rules?

It’s all subjective. It’s not the first time this sort of thing has happened between drivers either.

ETA not trying to completely absolve Max, but a bit of balance perhaps. Things are not so black and white as some make out.

Edited by Digga on Sunday 20th February 17:20

It is not subjective in the slightest. Brake warming behind the safety car is usual accepted and done by everybody. As somebody else pointed out braking under race conditions in the middle of a straight is brake testing.

It is the difference between being behind a car that brakes as the traffic light goes red, and driving along a clear motorway and the car in front slams their brakes on for no reason.

One is normal and expected Digga. You guess...

You do realise, I hope, that the car behind is still responsible for rear ending someone...

All of my training vehicles in the UK from 1985 to 1998 had "APPROVED MOTORWAY INSTRUCTOR" emblazoned across the the back, so there is a slight possibility yes

[Siao]

PhilAsia said:

Siao said:

PhilAsia said:

MustangGT said:

Digga said:

MustangGT said:

Digga said:

Brake tests under safety car are not without precedent. Not arguing all brake testing is ‘fine’ but backing the pack up and getting a good re-start is a key strategy.

That is not brake testing. Please provide a genuine example of brake testing whilst under safety car rules?

It’s all subjective. It’s not the first time this sort of thing has happened between drivers either.

ETA not trying to completely absolve Max, but a bit of balance perhaps. Things are not so black and white as some make out.

Edited by Digga on Sunday 20th February 17:20

It is not subjective in the slightest. Brake warming behind the safety car is usual accepted and done by everybody. As somebody else pointed out braking under race conditions in the middle of a straight is brake testing.

It is the difference between being behind a car that brakes as the traffic light goes red, and driving along a clear motorway and the car in front slams their brakes on for no reason.

One is normal and expected Digga. You guess...

You do realise, I hope, that the car behind is still responsible for rear ending someone...

All of my training vehicles in the UK from 1985 to 1998 had "APPROVED MOTORWAY INSTRUCTOR" emblazoned across the the back, so there is a slight possibility yes

Ok, good!

[PhilAsia]

Siao said:

PhilAsia said:

Siao said:

PhilAsia said:

MustangGT said:

Digga said:

MustangGT said:

Digga said:

Brake tests under safety car are not without precedent. Not arguing all brake testing is ‘fine’ but backing the pack up and getting a good re-start is a key strategy.

That is not brake testing. Please provide a genuine example of brake testing whilst under safety car rules?

It’s all subjective. It’s not the first time this sort of thing has happened between drivers either.

ETA not trying to completely absolve Max, but a bit of balance perhaps. Things are not so black and white as some make out.

Edited by Digga on Sunday 20th February 17:20

It is not subjective in the slightest. Brake warming behind the safety car is usual accepted and done by everybody. As somebody else pointed out braking under race conditions in the middle of a straight is brake testing.

It is the difference between being behind a car that brakes as the traffic light goes red, and driving along a clear motorway and the car in front slams their brakes on for no reason.

One is normal and expected Digga. You guess...

You do realise, I hope, that the car behind is still responsible for rear ending someone...

All of my training vehicles in the UK from 1985 to 1998 had "APPROVED MOTORWAY INSTRUCTOR" emblazoned across the the back, so there is a slight possibility yes

Ok, good!

[Sandpit Steve]

Siao said:

You do realise, I hope, that the car behind is still responsible for rear ending someone...

On the public highway yes. On a racetrack, not so much.

Max reduced his speed from 304 to 108 km/h, with a deceleration of 2.4G, on a curved but usually flat-out piece of racetrack.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=wmGZWiPa2R8 (telemetry)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=QS4Z38HhsMc (As it happened. Warning: shouty Crofty)

They were damn lucky there wasn’t a car behind them, coming around the blind corner with 200 kph closing speed.