George Russell

[Jasandjules]

I like Russel as a driver, look at what he did to Bottas last year....

BUT I wish he would learn how to say result.......

[CoolHands]

C70R said:

kambites said:

glazbagun said:

Has anyone else thought that Georges defending has been surprisingly weak at times thus season? He's held off Perez doggedly at times, but at Monza and Zandvoort when Max was coming through it felt that he was picking a poor line.

I think it was simply mature driving - he knows that he can't hope to compete with Verstappen in that Redbull so he chooses not to lose time to the drivers he can complete with trying to hold Max behind.

So much this. He's in a hugely inferior car, and has nothing to gain by wasting tyres/energy keeping a significantly faster package behind him.

He's just getting on and concentrating on his own race.

I don’t agree. I was really annoyed when he let him breeze straight past. For one thing, he has given max the mindset that he can just waltz past, and will have that reputation unlike others on the grid. Also you don’t know what might happen later, if he had held max up for a lap or two it may have benefited him or LH later (look at the fact they finished under SC). You don’t know at the early part what may come. It’s not like he was 10th and max was coming past.

[glazbagun]

CoolHands said:

I don’t agree. I was really annoyed when he let him breeze straight past. For one thing, he has given max the mindset that he can just waltz past, and will have that reputation unlike others on the grid. Also you don’t know what might happen later, if he had held max up for a lap or two it may have benefited him or LH later (look at the fact they finished under SC). You don’t know at the early part what may come. It’s not like he was 10th and max was coming past.

I'm thinking more of next year or the year after. Everyone knows passing Max means being driven off the road just as everyone knows Bottas can't put up a fight. Like you say that will filter into how other drivers approach him. Forcing Max to at least make an effort will pay dividends later I'd have thought.

[C70R]

CoolHands said:

C70R said:

kambites said:

glazbagun said:

Has anyone else thought that Georges defending has been surprisingly weak at times thus season? He's held off Perez doggedly at times, but at Monza and Zandvoort when Max was coming through it felt that he was picking a poor line.

I think it was simply mature driving - he knows that he can't hope to compete with Verstappen in that Redbull so he chooses not to lose time to the drivers he can complete with trying to hold Max behind.

So much this. He's in a hugely inferior car, and has nothing to gain by wasting tyres/energy keeping a significantly faster package behind him.

He's just getting on and concentrating on his own race.

I don’t agree. I was really annoyed when he let him breeze straight past. For one thing, he has given max the mindset that he can just waltz past, and will have that reputation unlike others on the grid. Also you don’t know what might happen later, if he had held max up for a lap or two it may have benefited him or LH later (look at the fact they finished under SC). You don’t know at the early part what may come. It’s not like he was 10th and max was coming past.

What does Russell actually have to gain by keeping a much faster car behind him, and risking jeopardising his own race by overworking his tyres?

Plus, he's a LONG way slower than Max at the moment.

[heebeegeetee]

C70R said:

Maldonado did indeed win one race, but he was also a complete liability who couldn't keep his car straight for a huge portion of his career.

Latifi might be the worst driver we've had in modern F1, but Pastor wasn't too far behind in terms of actual driving talent.

There was some names behind Maldonado in the 2015 championship.

[glazbagun]

C70R said:

What does Russell actually have to gain by keeping a much faster car behind him, and risking jeopardising his own race by overworking his tyres?

Plus, he's a LONG way slower than Max at the moment.

A reputation. Here's Nico's interview after achieving his life's ambition against his great adversary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZGQFb-SU_g

Max finished 4th in the race and fifth in the championship behind Seb & Ricciardo. Everyone hates passing Max.

Here's Max' view of Bottas the year he finished two points ahead of him in the WDC. Noone worries about passing Bottas.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/l81ctl/...

[heebeegeetee]

glazbagun said:

A reputation. Here's Nico's interview after achieving his life's ambition against his great adversary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZGQFb-SU_g

Max finished 4th in the race and fifth in the championship behind Seb & Ricciardo. Everyone hates passing Max.

Here's Max' view of Bottas the year he finished two points ahead of him in the WDC. Noone worries about passing Bottas.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/l81ctl/...

Thanks for those. Nico was alright, I have a lot of respect for him.

There are no compilation videos of Bottas overtakes.

[HustleRussell]

heebeegeetee said:

It's a good job he can't hear what we're saying.

He does surprise me, I can't imagine what it's like for him. At every race meeting, every paddock, every pit lane he walks, every promotion he has to do (if any), at every hotel, every restaurant, every team meeting, pretty much everywhere he goes, everyone is thinking "what a wker". There can't be anyone outside his immediate family who has a good word to say about him? Does being an (really st) F1 driver really compensate for all that? How does he look at himself? There must be something else he can do?

Apart from totally ruining what was possibly the closest season in F1 history last year, he is (as others have said) currently 21st in a field of 20. Another driver can come along that not many are terribly familiar with, is not F1 race fit, indeed is not especially young even, can step into the sister car and blow him into the weeds.

How does Latifi live with it, what the hell happens to his self-esteem?

Except everyone who has met him agrees that he’s an absolutely top bloke. I don’t know where you can muster all of this hate from. He’s the worst driver on the current grid but he is much closer to being a proper F1 driver than a huge number of pay drivers who have gone before. I the year de Vries won F2, Latifi came second.

heebeegeetee said:

There was some names behind Maldonado in the 2015 championship.

Not one of which enjoyed the benefit of the famously dominant Mercedes engine. Also, half the points of his team-mate. His team-mate being Romain Grosjean.

[C70R]

glazbagun said:

C70R said:

What does Russell actually have to gain by keeping a much faster car behind him, and risking jeopardising his own race by overworking his tyres?

Plus, he's a LONG way slower than Max at the moment.

A reputation. Here's Nico's interview after achieving his life's ambition against his great adversary:

Perhaps his ego just isn't that fragile? The modern F1 driver is far more guided by their head than their crotch, as many of their forbearers were/are.

Nico is a great example of this emerging. Drivers of the past, with fragile egos, couldn't have resisted the urge to come back and defend their title. Instead, he thought he'd go enjoy life with his family.

[SmoothCriminal]

Is there a race that goes by where he isn't on the radio moaning about something this time it was about Sainz

[GiantCardboardPlato]

C70R said:

Perhaps his ego just isn't that fragile? The modern F1 driver is far more guided by their head than their crotch, as many of their forbearers were/are.

Nico is a great example of this emerging. Drivers of the past, with fragile egos, couldn't have resisted the urge to come back and defend their title. Instead, he thought he'd go enjoy life with his family.

I think this might be bks. F1 in its regularly fatal era was all about dispassionately assessing risks.

We have examples of drivers taking action that they knew would generate critical comments about their bravery or manlihood (eg retiring from races they thought too wet).

We have examples of drivers. Ring overcome and letting their judgement lapse, later talking about how much risk they took and how it was silly BUT fkING AMAZING - fangio at the nurburging in 57. 9 new fastest laps, 7 in a row. Faster than in qualifying practice. (See below).

So I just don’t really buy this, the best f1 drivers have always been able to reign in their emotions and/or use them to refocus. The best all analyse dispassionately while driving. (See also Hamilton, e.g, Spain this year, or most other times he’s at the back! Or when he has unfavourable tyre situation and can summon the performance anyway).

Fangio said:

In the race itself, I already had a 30s advantage over second place when I came into the pits. I don't know what happened in the pits, but when I came out to start again I'd lost 30s plus another 48s!

The Ferraris were first and second. It was two Englishmen, Mike Hawthorn and Peter Collins - they were two good drivers, so I never thought I could get an advantage over them. I was 51s behind them when I started again, and there were only 10 laps to go.

I always had in my head the possibility of winning a race, and this race was almost lost for me. So I had to risk - that's something I never did before in my life.

So, I started to switch from using fourth gear to fifth. I started to pull stronger using the longer gears. And I thought, maybe once is OK, I can take one turn like this - but it's crazy if I take two...

I made the right decision. If in one turn I was using second gear, then I went into third. When it was third, I used fourth gear. And the car went better into the turns. Then there is much more risk, this is much less safe, but you go faster.

And then in one of the downhills I saw the other two cars; they were one behind the other. There were only two laps to go. And that was the first moment that I really thought I could get them.

I've never been a spectacular racer, but I did things I had never done in my life, driving from one side of the circuit to the other, using the maximum revs. And that's how I caught them and won the race; I won by 3s. I made record laps in the last 10 laps.

For me, this was the most emotional race. I was named meister; if you win three times at the Nurburgring then you are something special. And this race helped to give me the fifth world championship. When I was waiting for my laurels, I was very emotional. In 1954 a driver I took there to race had died [Onofre Marimon], so this circuit had given me happiness and sadness.

Simply, now I can say it; I never thought I could win this race. I risked for the first time in my life.

[FNG]

CoolHands said:

C70R said:

kambites said:

glazbagun said:

Has anyone else thought that Georges defending has been surprisingly weak at times thus season? He's held off Perez doggedly at times, but at Monza and Zandvoort when Max was coming through it felt that he was picking a poor line.

I think it was simply mature driving - he knows that he can't hope to compete with Verstappen in that Redbull so he chooses not to lose time to the drivers he can complete with trying to hold Max behind.

So much this. He's in a hugely inferior car, and has nothing to gain by wasting tyres/energy keeping a significantly faster package behind him.

He's just getting on and concentrating on his own race.

I don’t agree. I was really annoyed when he let him breeze straight past. For one thing, he has given max the mindset that he can just waltz past, and will have that reputation unlike others on the grid. Also you don’t know what might happen later, if he had held max up for a lap or two it may have benefited him or LH later (look at the fact they finished under SC). You don’t know at the early part what may come. It’s not like he was 10th and max was coming past.

And yet he defended like hell against Max in Spain. Where it was worth doing.

Max won't be suddenly thinking oh, he's a walkover. He's already seen George is perfectly capable of playing hardball when appropriate.

The corollary is that he can also see George is using his brain not his emotions to get the best result he can. When Lewis does this it's the mark of a master and when Max did the opposite (pretty much every race til this season) it was the mark of an immature man-child...

[Zarco]

glazbagun said:

C70R said:

What does Russell actually have to gain by keeping a much faster car behind him, and risking jeopardising his own race by overworking his tyres?

Plus, he's a LONG way slower than Max at the moment.

A reputation. Here's Nico's interview after achieving his life's ambition against his great adversary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZGQFb-SU_g

Max finished 4th in the race and fifth in the championship behind Seb & Ricciardo. Everyone hates passing Max.

Here's Max' view of Bottas the year he finished two points ahead of him in the WDC. Noone worries about passing Bottas.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/l81ctl/...

Russell already has a reputation:

For some impressive performances in a Williams, and showing very well against Hamilton as team mates.

He had nothing to gain from trying to fight Max tooth and nail. He would have lost ground to Leclerc, and taken life out of his tyres.

[mat205125]

heebeegeetee said:

There was some names behind Maldonado in the 2015 championship.

He also won the 2010 GP2 season, which included some reasonably well regarded names also competing in all (or most) rounds.

F1 stat fans love to look at GP2 results as a sign of greatness in equal machinery, when the superiority of the car enters the conversation.

Whilst maybe not the strongest of all years in 2010, you don't luck into a GP2 title without some capability.

[Zetec-S]

HustleRussell said:

heebeegeetee said:

It's a good job he can't hear what we're saying.

He does surprise me, I can't imagine what it's like for him. At every race meeting, every paddock, every pit lane he walks, every promotion he has to do (if any), at every hotel, every restaurant, every team meeting, pretty much everywhere he goes, everyone is thinking "what a wker". There can't be anyone outside his immediate family who has a good word to say about him? Does being an (really st) F1 driver really compensate for all that? How does he look at himself? There must be something else he can do?

Apart from totally ruining what was possibly the closest season in F1 history last year, he is (as others have said) currently 21st in a field of 20. Another driver can come along that not many are terribly familiar with, is not F1 race fit, indeed is not especially young even, can step into the sister car and blow him into the weeds.

How does Latifi live with it, what the hell happens to his self-esteem?

Except everyone who has met him agrees that he’s an absolutely top bloke. I don’t know where you can muster all of this hate from. He’s the worst driver on the current grid but he is much closer to being a proper F1 driver than a huge number of pay drivers who have gone before. I the year de Vries won F2, Latifi came second.

I was going to say that comes across as pretty harsh towards Latifi. Yes, he's out of his depth in F1, but not sure where the personal attack comes from? And how many people could honestly say they would give up if they were in his position?

Although I guess he's probably the only person who misses Mazepin

[budgie smuggler]

C70R said:

budgie smuggler said:

Norris is a manchild, and we've already seen the two drivers compared directly in the same machinery. George won.

Seems unnecessary unpleasant.

Norris has shown himself to be a fantastic and mature driver.

I didn't intend to be unpleasant, my opinion is simply that he acts younger than he is (if you see the context of my comment, the poster said he was more "likeable")

Edited by budgie smuggler on Tuesday 13th September 09:46

[StevieBee]

heebeegeetee said:

C70R said:

Maldonado did indeed win one race, but he was also a complete liability who couldn't keep his car straight for a huge portion of his career.

Latifi might be the worst driver we've had in modern F1, but Pastor wasn't too far behind in terms of actual driving talent.

There was some names behind Maldonado in the 2015 championship.

Some drivers tend to attract a level of undue mirth for comedic pleasure more than some. Looking at that list, one wonders why the likes of Will Stevens and Roberto Merhi escaped the onslaught (though from memory, they did tend to bring their cars home in one piece!).

[C70R]

Zarco said:

Russell already has a reputation:

For some impressive performances in a Williams, and showing very well against Hamilton as team mates.

He had nothing to gain from trying to fight Max tooth and nail. He would have lost ground to Leclerc, and taken life out of his tyres.

So much this.

It's such an immature, simplistic view of what is a more complex sport.

[GingerMunky]

C70R said:

Instead, he thought he'd go enjoy life with his family.

Love this about Nico, left at the top, nothing more to prove, went to enjoy life with his family. And enjoyed the whole year as World Champ without having to spend it in a car. Legend.

[StevieBee]

GingerMunky said:

C70R said:

Instead, he thought he'd go enjoy life with his family.

Love this about Nico, left at the top, nothing more to prove, went to enjoy life with his family. And enjoyed the whole year as World Champ without having to spend it in a car. Legend.

Through the eyes of a fan, maybe.

But retiring having won a championship is seen dimly by those within the sport - both a mark of weakness in choosing not to defend your title (I recall reading someone who likened it to having a game of football, scoring a goal and then going home with the ball), and commercially in the team not being able to fully capitalise upon that championship.