Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

[Clockwork Cupcake]

Well if we're playing this game, how many of Schumacher's or Vettel's wins were due to a team totally focussed on them including a #2 driver whose sole purpose was to be a wing man, right from race 1 of a season?

Honestly, Hamilton's "yeah, but..." naysayers are either blind, stupid, or monumentally biased.

[angrymoby]

mat205125 said:

It would be interesting to know how many of that 41 occurrences, were also off of the front row, sat next to his team mate who'd pipped him in qualifying

15 when not on the front row, compared to Alonso's 14 ...which includes Alonso's win from 15th in Singapore- whether you want to include that in his tally is entirely up to you

[mat205125]

angrymoby said:

mat205125 said:

It would be interesting to know how many of that 41 occurrences, were also off of the front row, sat next to his team mate who'd pipped him in qualifying

15 when not on the front row, compared to Alonso's 14 ...which includes Alonso's win from 15th in Singapore- whether you want to include that in his tally is entirely up to you

Proportionally, a significantly larger percentage not-from-front-row for Alonso then???

[Clockwork Cupcake]

All these stats are a little superfluous; The fact that Hamilton destroyed Alonso in equal cars in his rookie season is really all that is needed to refute Alonso's radio assertion.

Alonso has never got over that. Nor the fact that Hamilton joins teams on the ascendant and leaves them as they are entering the doldrums, whereas Alonso has a history of doing precisely the opposite

Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Wednesday 31st August 13:41

[mat205125]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

All these stats are a little superfluous; The fact that Hamilton destroyed Alonso in equal cars in his rookie season is really all that is needed to refute Alonso's radio assertion.

Alonso has never got over that. Nor the fact that Hamilton joins teams on the ascendant and leaves them as they are entering the doldrums, whereas Alonso has a history of doing precisely the opposite

Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Wednesday 31st August 13:41

Dead heat on points, and ended up higher in the standings on count back, with the bias backing of Dennis grooming his pet project???

[Clockwork Cupcake]

mat205125 said:

Dead heat on points, and ended up higher in the standings on count back, with the bias backing of Dennis grooming his pet project???

Hamilton was a rookie and Alonso a World Champion!

That fails to Impress you? Are you Shania Twain or something?

[mat205125]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Hamilton was a rookie and Alonso a World Champion!

That fails to Impress you? Are you Shania Twain or something?

Undoubtedly impressive, however definitely not "destroyed" to use your terminology.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

mat205125 said:

Undoubtedly impressive, however definitely not "destroyed" to use your terminology.

Well it was a few years ago now so obviously I misremembered. But I recall Hamilton came within a whisker of winning the WDC in his rookie year. Certainly he ruffled Alonso's feathers in a big way.

And, as I said, I think Alonso is still bitter about it.

[angrymoby]

mat205125 said:

Dead heat on points, and ended up higher in the standings on count back, with the bias backing of Dennis grooming his pet project???

according to Priestley the bias was towards Alonso ...with mechanics & engineers tripping over themselves to work with Fred & his side of the garage

& if Dennis was trying to favour Hamilton he had a funny way of showing it- by trying to orchestrate the 'fuel burn' turn strategy at Hungary with Fred benefitting first, even though he was behind in the championship at the time

[mat205125]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

mat205125 said:

Undoubtedly impressive, however definitely not "destroyed" to use your terminology.

Well it was a few years ago now so obviously I misremembered. But I recall Hamilton came within a whisker of winning the WDC in his rookie year. Certainly he ruffled Alonso's feathers in a big way.

And, as I said, I think Alonso is still bitter about it.

If it wasn't for the infighting at McLaren, then either Alonso or Hamilton definitely should have won the title for sure.

Kimi sneaked that one in at the last round, and stole the title out from under them.

I recall there being quite a lot of surprise at the outcome, as Kimi was pretty much an outside mathematical chance only at the start of the last round.

[angrymoby]

mat205125 said:

Undoubtedly impressive, however definitely not "destroyed" to use your terminology.

destroyed his chances of another WDC thats for sure

If he'd kept his st together he'd have bagged at least another 2 WDC's (07 /08) & probably been on both RBR's / Merc's radar for more

[Clockwork Cupcake]

angrymoby said:

If he'd kept his st together he'd have bagged at least another 2 WDC's (07 /08) & probably been on both RBR's / Merc's radar for more

Alonso always has had a knack of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory; He's his own worst enemy.

[StRemy]

Durzel said:

MustangGT said:

StRemy said:

I just try to be fair considering he’s among the best drivers on the grid.

The hit on FA was not his first mistake of that kind during this season. Maybe it’s the lack of practice due to the Mercedes dominance all these years, but although he’s one of the best starting on P1, others are a little bit better avoiding contact driving in the middle of the pack.

P.S.: Hate is something to be avoided in all aspects of life

LH has won 41 races from a grid position lower than pole. Considering he has the highest number of pole positions he has a problem in making wins when not on pole.

It may also be of interest to note that 41 equals the total number of Senna wins, and is also higher than all but 3 other drivers total wins (MS, SV and Alain Prost)

By lower than pole are we talking front couple of rows? i.e. basically a decent start away from leading?

Unfortunately - depending on where you sit - it's pretty hard to gauge how amazing drivers are if they spend several years in a dominant car. The car clearly makes a massive difference.

That said, Hamilton has showed his chops in weaker hardware. He was in No Man's Land back when RBR were dominating with Vettel, and we're at that place in the cycle again. If/when he's back in a dominant Mercedes, or another manufacturer, all will be forgotten and he'll be back to being "the ultimate GOAT omggggg" again.

I don't know how anyone can doubt that the car is the deciding factor when journeyman Bottas was in the mix when at Mercedes, and is basically not on the radar anymore.

Unless F1 adds some kind of ballast system ala BTCC then this will ever be thus. One manufacturer, maybe two, will luck out with the current generation of regulations and crush everyone. Frankly, I'm more disappointed that Ferrari are so utterly hopeless strategy wise, otherwise it would make for an interesting season between LeClerc and Verstappen, and Sainz and Perez, at the very least.

Very sensible post! The top drivers are certainly very close together in terms of hability and it’s the car what usually makes the difference.

[paulguitar]

StRemy said:

The top drivers are certainly very close together in terms of hability and it’s the car what usually makes the difference.

I think most people understand this. The fact remains that a handful of drivers are considered exceptional and able to make a difference. For this reason, the likes of Senna, M Schumacher, Prost, Hamilton etc receive huge money and tend to end up in the mostly the best cars.

[nickfrog]

paulguitar said:

StRemy said:

The top drivers are certainly very close together in terms of hability and it’s the car what usually makes the difference.

I think most people understand this. The fact remains that a handful of drivers are considered exceptional and able to make a difference. For this reason, the likes of Senna, M Schumacher, Prost, Hamilton etc receive huge money and tend to end up in the mostly the best cars.

Funny that, isn't it? The very best cars end up with the very best drivers.

[deadslow]

nickfrog said:

paulguitar said:

StRemy said:

The top drivers are certainly very close together in terms of hability and it’s the car what usually makes the difference.

I think most people understand this. The fact remains that a handful of drivers are considered exceptional and able to make a difference. For this reason, the likes of Senna, M Schumacher, Prost, Hamilton etc receive huge money and tend to end up in the mostly the best cars.

Funny that, isn't it? The very best cars end up with the very best drivers.

yep, that's why Max is in the RedBull

[nickfrog]

deadslow said:

yep, that's why Max is in the RedBull

Absolutely!! I can see him joining that illustrious list soon. Spa was quite a performance.

[StRemy]

paulguitar said:

StRemy said:

The top drivers are certainly very close together in terms of hability and it’s the car what usually makes the difference.

I think most people understand this. The fact remains that a handful of drivers are considered exceptional and able to make a difference. For this reason, the likes of Senna, M Schumacher, Prost, Hamilton etc receive huge money and tend to end up in the mostly the best cars.

Was SV as good his Red Bull or his Ferrari performance? If a driver wins four, five, six WDCs in the same car he’s obviously very good, but is the car making the difference.

[MarkwG]

deadslow said:

nickfrog said:

paulguitar said:

StRemy said:

The top drivers are certainly very close together in terms of hability and it’s the car what usually makes the difference.

I think most people understand this. The fact remains that a handful of drivers are considered exceptional and able to make a difference. For this reason, the likes of Senna, M Schumacher, Prost, Hamilton etc receive huge money and tend to end up in the mostly the best cars.

Funny that, isn't it? The very best cars end up with the very best drivers.

yep, that's why Max is in the RedBull

Been in it a very long time, though, for just one WC...

[Pflanzgarten]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

mat205125 said:

Undoubtedly impressive, however definitely not "destroyed" to use your terminology.

Well it was a few years ago now so obviously I misremembered. But I recall Hamilton came within a whisker of winning the WDC in his rookie year. Certainly he ruffled Alonso's feathers in a big way.

And, as I said, I think Alonso is still bitter about it.

If George Russel (the experienced F1 driver) had got to within a mechanical failure in the last race of winning the title this year and in doing so ended up above Lewis Hamilton in the final standings...

Something tells me a lot of posters would be claiming he had "destroyed" his teammate