Vettel to replace Alonso at Ferrari

[stemll]

On the subject of three car teams

Joe Saward said:

"So the one area which still needs better cost-efficiency is the racing itself with teams needing to find a way to make themselves more sustainable. Cost cutting is the only way… If they don’t find a solution soon, the Formula One group is in danger of failing to meet the requirement for 20 cars at each race. This is why Bernie Ecclestone is currently talking about third cars, although agreements in place mean that this is almost impossible to achieve because the extra cars will not score points, nor win prize money. However the results they gain will stand, thus pushing the smaller teams further back in the pecking order. Consequently no small team is going to agree to change the contracts in place, and the so-called Strategy Group cannot change contracts without the agreement of all the signatories. Nor will the FIA want to change the deal because the failure of FOM to provide full fields could lead to the cancellation of the 100-year commercial deal, which would give the FIA control again. That in turn could lead to a better (and fairer) deal for all the teams, with a bigger share of the revenues. So those who will benefit from third cars are a smaller group than those who will lose out. The existing arrangements are, in any case, only an emergency measure and they are not compulsory if teams can prove that they cannot afford to run an additional car. If third cars are needed in the future only about four teams can really afford to run them, which means that if four of today’s teams fail and disappear (which could conceivably happen given the state of some teams at the moment) the sport would lose eight cars. The current 22-car field would be reduced to 14 but there would be only four non-scoring cars to replace them. That would make 18 cars, an insufficient number to satisfy the FIA contract.

The idea that all eight surviving teams would be happy to run three cars is flawed because those in the midfield know that FOM’s failure would open the way for a better deal for everyone (except perhaps Ferrari).

The irony of this is that cost-capping will slow this process, so it is in the interest of the middle-ranking teams NOT to cut costs so as to push the small teams out of business, to end the reign of FOM and usher in a new era where the distribution of revenues would allow all contenders a fairer share of the money. One can even argue that some small team failures with liquidation processes to wipe out the debts would provide the current owners with the chance to buy the assets cheaply and come back into a renewed F1 in a better shape.

If FOM was to lose the commercial rights, the FIA would still need a certain number of teams and those applicants with the best proven records and resources would be best-placed to win the available franchises…

There are times when going out of business is the most profitable route to take."

[Crafty_]

Gaz. said:

Isn't the deadline for 2 or three cars on 1st November?

Section 13.1 & Appendix 7 : http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/...

Teams must submit their application to the FIA for the 2015 Championship between 21st October and 1st November, the $516,128 entry fee is payable with the application, they must then pay $5161 ($6194 if you are Mercedes) per WCC point scored this year by 30th November at the latest.

So, we'll know how many teams have entered in a couple of weeks.

What we don't know is the ins and outs of what the Concorde agreement says. Do all the teams have to agree to 3 car teams ? is there extra provision for additional funds ? Is the rule actually based on FIA entries ? It could be based on how many teams we have this year ? Or how many teams have told Bernie they'll be around next year in some formal way or other ?

Quite apart from all that, given the current situation where Haas are joining in 2016 (god only knows about Forza Rossa) would teams really be in a situation where they are forced in to 3 car teams for 2015, but revert again in 2016 ? Or we go to 3 cars and then Bernie seeks to keep them in 2016 and beyond with 10 or more teams ? That would possibly require pre-qualifying to come back ?

My guess is teams would quite strongly push back on 3 car teams for 2015, its too late.
I also don't think we'll end up with only 9 teams next year.
Even if we did I reckon that Haas coming along in 2016 makes it a complete waste of time.

[stemll]

On the subject of three car teams

Joe Saward said:

"So the one area which still needs better cost-efficiency is the racing itself with teams needing to find a way to make themselves more sustainable. Cost cutting is the only way… If they don’t find a solution soon, the Formula One group is in danger of failing to meet the requirement for 20 cars at each race. This is why Bernie Ecclestone is currently talking about third cars, although agreements in place mean that this is almost impossible to achieve because the extra cars will not score points, nor win prize money. However the results they gain will stand, thus pushing the smaller teams further back in the pecking order. Consequently no small team is going to agree to change the contracts in place, and the so-called Strategy Group cannot change contracts without the agreement of all the signatories. Nor will the FIA want to change the deal because the failure of FOM to provide full fields could lead to the cancellation of the 100-year commercial deal, which would give the FIA control again. That in turn could lead to a better (and fairer) deal for all the teams, with a bigger share of the revenues. So those who will benefit from third cars are a smaller group than those who will lose out. The existing arrangements are, in any case, only an emergency measure and they are not compulsory if teams can prove that they cannot afford to run an additional car. If third cars are needed in the future only about four teams can really afford to run them, which means that if four of today’s teams fail and disappear (which could conceivably happen given the state of some teams at the moment) the sport would lose eight cars. The current 22-car field would be reduced to 14 but there would be only four non-scoring cars to replace them. That would make 18 cars, an insufficient number to satisfy the FIA contract.

The idea that all eight surviving teams would be happy to run three cars is flawed because those in the midfield know that FOM’s failure would open the way for a better deal for everyone (except perhaps Ferrari).

The irony of this is that cost-capping will slow this process, so it is in the interest of the middle-ranking teams NOT to cut costs so as to push the small teams out of business, to end the reign of FOM and usher in a new era where the distribution of revenues would allow all contenders a fairer share of the money. One can even argue that some small team failures with liquidation processes to wipe out the debts would provide the current owners with the chance to buy the assets cheaply and come back into a renewed F1 in a better shape.

If FOM was to lose the commercial rights, the FIA would still need a certain number of teams and those applicants with the best proven records and resources would be best-placed to win the available franchises…

There are times when going out of business is the most profitable route to take."

[garycat]

noell35 said:

There are quite a few articles, clearly from the same source which seem to suggest that Briatore is still involved in Alonso's career? I don't know if this is true or not but what I have noticed is he has been at a lot of the races lately, you often see him in the background. Coincidence?

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/briatore-eyes-lo...

Briatore is Alonso's manager (or at least the head of his management team)

If I were Alonso I'd be looking for someone new after being left out in the cold with Vettel taking his seat and the only competitive car available is one where he blackmailed the team manager and cost the team $1m.

[anonymous-user]

x100

[rubystone]

Bonefish Blues said:

Exactly what I've been told.

Indeed. I don't believe there's even a date specified. And no matter how much Wolff protests, it'll happen. Eta, with the money Alonso brings from his sponsors, he could cover the mooted $25m cost of that third car.

Edited by rubystone on Thursday 16th October 23:12

[VolvoT5]

Kaiser_Wull said:

Gaz. said:

Well Raikkonen has just said he has a contract with Ferrari for next year and probably the year after:

https://twitter.com/pitlanetalk

There are rumours going about that he took a salary cut in exchange for an option for 2016.

If they give him what he needs - a car with a planted front end - then he'll deliver the results, and with James Allison overseeing the design there's a good chance that they might do just that.

This doesn't surprise me that much. It was the press that decided he was leaving the end of 2015. His actual comments were he was ending his career with Ferrari, he never stated a year. Certainly for him to make that statement knowing he has a 2+1 year option seems a lot more logical than just a 2 year deal.

[Likes Fast Cars]

rubystone said:

Indeed. I don't believe there's even a date specified. And no matter how much Wolff protests, it'll happen. Eta, with the money Alonso brings from his sponsors, he could cover the mooted $25m cost of that third car.

Edited by rubystone on Thursday 16th October 23:12

So that will make FA the "#3 driver" in the team

A deserved position for a man of dubious ethics.

[Likes Fast Cars]

VolvoT5 said:

Kaiser_Wull said:

Gaz. said:

Well Raikkonen has just said he has a contract with Ferrari for next year and probably the year after:

https://twitter.com/pitlanetalk

There are rumours going about that he took a salary cut in exchange for an option for 2016.

If they give him what he needs - a car with a planted front end - then he'll deliver the results, and with James Allison overseeing the design there's a good chance that they might do just that.

This doesn't surprise me that much. It was the press that decided he was leaving the end of 2015. His actual comments were he was ending his career with Ferrari, he never stated a year. Certainly for him to make that statement knowing he has a 2+1 year option seems a lot more logical than just a 2 year deal.

This is interesting as I had always believed his deal was only 2 years (with no option). So let's hope he does get a decent car next year and can show his true form, plus another year to keep on doing it.

[garycat]

Speed week reporting that Alonso will join McLaren, but as a Honda employee

http://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/65175/Exklus...

(you will need translator - Google chrome works for me)

[Vaud]

garycat said:

Speed week reporting that Alonso will join McLaren, but as a Honda employee

http://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/65175/Exklus...

(you will need translator - Google chrome works for me)

Looks like a bunch of guesses and chinese whispers to me.

[JonRB]

Dave_newcastle said:

Unfortunately I think it seems near certain that Caterham wont be racing F1 next season.

Well, given that they have Kobayashi for sale on eBay, I think you may be right.

http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/10/16/caterham-puts-ko...

[AndStilliRise]

JonRB said:

Dave_newcastle said:

Unfortunately I think it seems near certain that Caterham wont be racing F1 next season.

Well, given that they have Kobayashi for sale on eBay, I think you may be right.

http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/10/16/caterham-puts-ko...

My skills with ebay are non-existent, I could not find the listing?

[BigBen]

AndStilliRise said:

JonRB said:

Dave_newcastle said:

Unfortunately I think it seems near certain that Caterham wont be racing F1 next season.

Well, given that they have Kobayashi for sale on eBay, I think you may be right.

http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/10/16/caterham-puts-ko...

My skills with ebay are non-existent, I could not find the listing?

Genuine belly laugh at "comes without box box box"

[Europa1]

HDM said:

Kaiser_Wull said:

That was overturned by a French court in 2010 and the FIA thereafter agreed to allow Briatore to return to F1 with effect from 1st January, 2013. I disagree wholeheartedly with that but, hey ho, Flav ain't going to worry about what I think.

Thanks, I was not aware of that, I would agree with you, there is no place for him in F1, ever.

Sadly I have a feeling that (in addition to managing drivers) the sweaty Italian supermodel enthusiast and part-time businessman is already back involved in F1 - I am sure I read somewhere that he he is heading up the working party that is looking at how to make F1 more popular/arrest the decline in audiences.

[Kaiser_Wull]

Likes Fast Cars said:

So that will make FA the "#3 driver" in the team

A deserved position for a man of dubious ethics.

I've always thought of him as a number 2...........................

[Kaiser_Wull]

Europa1 said:

Sadly I have a feeling that (in addition to managing drivers) the sweaty Italian supermodel enthusiast and part-time businessman is already back involved in F1 - I am sure I read somewhere that he he is heading up the working party that is looking at how to make F1 more popular/arrest the decline in audiences.

I read the same thing.

[toppstuff]

Gaz. said:

Well Raikkonen has just said he has a contract with Ferrari for next year and probably the year after:

https://twitter.com/pitlanetalk

Thats a shame. I think he is one of the most overrated champions of recent years. And his manner isn't cool or funny, its just ignorant and obtuse.

[andygo]

He's going to suggest a mandatory 30 minute pit stop where all the drivers play a game of football on the start/finish straight.

[Kaiser_Wull]

toppstuff said:

Thats a shame. I think he is one of the most overrated champions of recent years. And his manner isn't cool or funny, its just ignorant and obtuse.

Really? Did you see him back in his McLaren days? He was pretty much the class of the field back then. He showed DC and JPM a clean pair of heels. His championship year wasn't his best, but he deserved the title on the basis of his efforts in 2003 and 2005.

Say what you like about his manner, but he's never been known to behave in an unethical or unsporting manner nor is he guilty of the puerile PR concious attitude that has infested modern sports.