Official 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
housen said:
soooo lewis's penalty is dominating here
but whos fault do we think it was with Ferrari ?
For me, both of them were at fault.but whos fault do we think it was with Ferrari ?
CLC could easily have eased his car to the left to avoid Seb as he was already well past. This wasn't a wheel-banging incident between cars running parallel at the same speed, it was the lightest touch between Seb's rear onto CLC's front wheel after Seb was passing with a notable speed differential. Seb eased over to the left to get back on the racing line and off the marbles to position himself for the next corner and cut across CLC's car, and CLC was looking to stay on his line regardless. Neither driver deserved the outcome, but both were at fault and it robbed Ferrari of a decent points tally.
What surprised me most was that such a slight brushing between the two cars caused so much damage to both CLC's suspension and to Seb's tyre.
The Surveyor said:
Seb eased over to the left to get back on the racing line and off the marbles to position himself for the next corner and cut across CLC's car, and CLC was looking to stay on his line regardless. Neither driver deserved the outcome, but both were at fault and it robbed Ferrari of a decent points tally.
I don't agree with that. Seb was on the racing line for a start, the far right of the track is the perfect line for the following left hander at Descida do Lago.He pulled the typical move of showing some wheel to the guy on the inside to run him onto the marbles forcing him to brake earlier and give up the corner. It's been called a "dick move" and it's not exactly the cleanest thing to do but it's so typical of what everyone does up and down the grid-it's a favourite move of VER, PER used to do it a lot to OCO in their previous battles and PER in fact did it to SIR the other year in the Williams and made a hash of it by colliding with him.
I'll get shot down for this but if you've driven on track aggressively it's a simple move to put some manners on your opposition who although you may have already passed, has an advantageous line for the next corner. It's a simple "back off or we crash" move, a little jink to either get them to back out of the throttle or like I said, put them on the marbles/offline and compromise their next corner entry.
I've only ever done it with aggressive drivers at the 'ring and although it's a bit cheeky it does work (flame suit on).
abzmike said:
And after Bottas parked took what, 4-5 laps to get the safety car in, but after bits of Ferrari are scattered all over the place, they got the SC in in 2 laps.
Longest part of a safety car is allowing lapped cars to unlap themselves so everyone is in race order. As this had already happened with bottas incident SC the cars were already bunched up and on same lap. I agree bottas SC was abit dubious but as I understand it F1 will not leave failed cars on trackside, even hidden ones. As they usually do at interlagos I guess there was no cherry picker on that part of the track so had to have one cross the track, which requires a full safety car after bianchi incident.
Stead79 said:
Vetels getting hammered for his move yet if you watch the first lap make Leclerc puts a shocking cut back on Norris at the end of the first lap!
Difference is, leclerc knew how wide his car was and left room when Norris came back at him. Vettel just clean ran into leclerc. For those saying it was 50/50 you’re right... 50% Sebastians fault and 50% Vettels fault
LaurasOtherHalf said:
The Surveyor said:
Seb eased over to the left to get back on the racing line and off the marbles to position himself for the next corner and cut across CLC's car, and CLC was looking to stay on his line regardless. Neither driver deserved the outcome, but both were at fault and it robbed Ferrari of a decent points tally.
I don't agree with that. Seb was on the racing line for a start, the far right of the track is the perfect line for the following left hander at Descida do Lago.…....
Remember this was one Ferrari driver passing another Ferrari driver, it was good to see there are no team orders but that shouldn't give them free reign to take each other out. Ferrari need to get a grip of their drivers as neither look to be able to cope with the pressure that the team puts on them.
DIW35 said:
The bit that puzzled me was how VER, after making his last pit stop when the safety car was deployed and coming back ut with several cars between him and the lead, managed to end up 2nd behind HAM before the safety car came back in.
The cars between them were all lapped cars so were allowed to un lap themselves so progressed round the track past the safety car and joined the back of the gridThe Surveyor said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
The Surveyor said:
Seb eased over to the left to get back on the racing line and off the marbles to position himself for the next corner and cut across CLC's car, and CLC was looking to stay on his line regardless. Neither driver deserved the outcome, but both were at fault and it robbed Ferrari of a decent points tally.
I don't agree with that. Seb was on the racing line for a start, the far right of the track is the perfect line for the following left hander at Descida do Lago.…....
Remember this was one Ferrari driver passing another Ferrari driver, it was good to see there are no team orders but that shouldn't give them free reign to take each other out. Ferrari need to get a grip of their drivers as neither look to be able to cope with the pressure that the team puts on them.
I 100% agree with your second paragraph, VET putting the manners on someone else in this way is completely normal but doing it to your team mate is stupid and unnecessary. I know I give VET a lot more credit than others do on this forum but he has shown time and time again his poor split second judgements in these situations.
His "red mist" that comes over him in those split seconds is, by a huge margin his biggest failing.
The sad fact is you (we) can see it coming on the coverage. He gets passed by his younger team mate whom he not only out qualified but also had a 10 place grid drop, he then sets his car up beautifully for the repass on Reta Oposta but he can't help himself to give LEC the manners in order to beat him to the following corner.
But that's VET, it's who he is and how he drives. As AN explained to me when I asked him about him-that's what you get with a 4xWDC. If you expect anything else perhaps you're the stupid one.
Ferrari must have known these situations would arise by bring in LEC. They've perhaps been exasperated by VET's inability to get this year's car to work for him but it was always going to happen. Managerially, I'm not sure I know what the solution is for them.
What a farce at Ferrari.
Why are they not giving each other more space?
Why is Vettel squeezing Leclerc on the straight?
Why is Leclerc trying to hold his line against a clearly fast car (at that point on the circuit)?
Binotto needs to deal with these 2 fools before next season, as there's a possibility on current form that they might both be in a title-chasing position.
Why are they not giving each other more space?
Why is Vettel squeezing Leclerc on the straight?
Why is Leclerc trying to hold his line against a clearly fast car (at that point on the circuit)?
Binotto needs to deal with these 2 fools before next season, as there's a possibility on current form that they might both be in a title-chasing position.
sleepezy said:
Jasandjules said:
I think Lewis was being quite gracious in apologising.
I think Lewis was being quite calculated in apologising... Doing so now, when there's no impact on either his Drivers Championship or Mercedes as Constructors, gives him more credibility when he doesn't do so in the future.(and before anyone jumps down by throat, I am a fan of Hamilton and personally thought the punishment harsh from the limited video coverage I have seen)
He'd have been aware that he just punted off a rookie who was on for his first podium, and wanted to quell the potential ire.
telecat said:
I call it a "Grandad Move". Enough space is left to allow the following car though but the car in front then shuts the door because they do not think anybody can get past. I always blame the driver in front. It's a dick move not helped by having no visibility in Modern cars. They need to find a position where drivers see more of their car and the cars around them.
Wide angle rear view camera with a small screen in the cockpit maybe. oyster said:
What a farce at Ferrari.
Why are they not giving each other more space?
Why is Vettel squeezing Leclerc on the straight?
Why is Leclerc trying to hold his line against a clearly fast car (at that point on the circuit)?
Binotto needs to deal with these 2 fools before next season, as there's a possibility on current form that they might both be in a title-chasing position.
Brundle has said previously of Senna that he would often put himself in a position whereby he gave the other driver the option of having an accident or not. I think Ferrari have two drivers that both take the same approach.Why are they not giving each other more space?
Why is Vettel squeezing Leclerc on the straight?
Why is Leclerc trying to hold his line against a clearly fast car (at that point on the circuit)?
Binotto needs to deal with these 2 fools before next season, as there's a possibility on current form that they might both be in a title-chasing position.
ajprice said:
For these last two races, now that Mercedes have the titles sewn up, it's between Leclerc, Verstappen and Vettel for P3 in the championship.
Charles Leclerc 249
Max Verstappen 235
Sebastian Vettel 230
Leclerc has a 10 place grid penalty for a new engine, but the top 3 teams can usually get back to at least P6 when they get a big penalty. Should be an interesting couple of races, especially with how Ferrari play any team orders if there are any.
Max Verstappen 260Charles Leclerc 249
Max Verstappen 235
Sebastian Vettel 230
Leclerc has a 10 place grid penalty for a new engine, but the top 3 teams can usually get back to at least P6 when they get a big penalty. Should be an interesting couple of races, especially with how Ferrari play any team orders if there are any.
Charles Leclerc 249
Sebastian Vettel 230
Vettel can't catch Verstappen now in Abu Dhabi
Leclerc needs 12 points more than Verstappen to get P3
Vettel needs 20 points over Leclerc, so a win with Leclerc having a bad time being 8th or lower (I think!?)
Normally I'd say those things are not likely to happen in one race, but after yesterday...
StevieBee said:
oyster said:
What a farce at Ferrari.
Why are they not giving each other more space?
Why is Vettel squeezing Leclerc on the straight?
Why is Leclerc trying to hold his line against a clearly fast car (at that point on the circuit)?
Binotto needs to deal with these 2 fools before next season, as there's a possibility on current form that they might both be in a title-chasing position.
Brundle has said previously of Senna that he would often put himself in a position whereby he gave the other driver the option of having an accident or not. I think Ferrari have two drivers that both take the same approachWhy are they not giving each other more space?
Why is Vettel squeezing Leclerc on the straight?
Why is Leclerc trying to hold his line against a clearly fast car (at that point on the circuit)?
Binotto needs to deal with these 2 fools before next season, as there's a possibility on current form that they might both be in a title-chasing position.
Vettel is a liability and needs to seriously think about retiring.
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