The Official 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**

[Quickmoose]

Redlake27 said:

If a Redbull had sneaked ahead at the start.
If Kimi hadn't qualified so badly.
If there had been a safety car.

1. Then he'd have been overtaken by pit strategy
2. Then he'd have chosen different tyres and joined in the 60 odd parade laps and retained his original starting position
3. Then potentially a mix up as pits stop made - so that one could've changed things I guess.

NR couldn't get close to LH
DR couldn't get close to NR
MV couldn't get close to DR
KR couldn't take MV - too many swerves IMO
SV couldn't get take DR


Completely agree about WEC

[cgt2]

It's very possible that by the end of September Hamilton will be second only to Schumacher in the all time winners list.

I remember growing up I thought Prost and Senna's win and pole records would stand forever. As Lewis is still relatively young it's entirely possible he will win another 25 races in his career and take the all time record.

Love him or hate him that is quite an achievement and does not happen by accident.

[Quickmoose]

cgt2 said:

It's very possible that by the end of September Hamilton will be second only to Schumacher in the all time winners list.

I remember growing up I thought Prost and Senna's win and pole records would stand forever. As Lewis is still relatively young it's entirely possible he will win another 25 races in his career and take the all time record.

Love him or hate him that is quite an achievement and does not happen by accident.

All true
But god I hope not, not because I don't rate him, I just would prefer the sport to have rules that prevent such domination.
My dad doesn't watch F1 these days as he dislikes the Mercedes uber alles situation, and misses Alonso being at the sharp end.
He waxes lyrical about Senna, Mansell, Schumacher and Prost, who I think all dominated in exactly the same way

[37chevy]

Quickmoose said:

All true
But god I hope not, not because I don't rate him, I just would prefer the sport to have rules that prevent such domination.
My dad doesn't watch F1 these days as he dislikes the Mercedes uber alles situation, and misses Alonso being at the sharp end.
He waxes lyrical about Senna, Mansell, Schumacher and Prost, who I think all dominated in exactly the same way

that's utter rubbish!...every era has had domination, despite the rules....not having a go but you don't get as many wins as Schumacher without having a dominant car...admittedly it wasn't lightyears ahead of his competitors in terms of speed..although it was quicker, Ferrari won on reliability and team orders gifting Michael some wins. id rather have an interteam rivalry than team orders any day.

Hamilton, like vettel, schumi, prost and senna built a team around them and made sure they were in the right car at the right time...its no coincidence they have won that many times. 1 championship could be put down to luck or a good car....3 or 4 is down to great driving

[cgt2]

Quickmoose said:

He waxes lyrical about Senna, Mansell, Schumacher and Prost, who I think all dominated in exactly the same way

True, they all did, but in common with all four of the above also had seasons and races where they won in a car that wasn't the best. Hamilton won in 2008 in a car that wasn't as good as the Ferrari, Prost won in 1986.

Of course Senna had that amazing season in 1993 winning five races in a car that had no possibility of being anywhere near the front normally and even down on power compared to the Benetton. I guess today's equivelant would be a Toro Rosso.

In cases like these I think we see the value of a real top notch driver. The modern cars flatter drivers who are not quite top drawer (Rosberg) but the really good ones still shine through.

[cgt2]

37chevy said:

that's utter rubbish!...every era has had domination, despite the rules....not having a go but you don't get as many wins as Schumacher without having a dominant car...admittedly it wasn't lightyears ahead of his competitors in terms of speed..although it was quicker, Ferrari won on reliability and team orders gifting Michael some wins. id rather have an interteam rivalry than team orders any day.

Hamilton, like vettel, schumi, prost and senna built a team around them and made sure they were in the right car at the right time...its no coincidence they have won that many times. 1 championship could be put down to luck or a good car....3 or 4 is down to great driving

Don't forget Schumacher had some very tight battles with Montoya and Raikkonen throughout the early 2000's so it was not all dominance. Also losing two to Hakkinen. He also nearly won 1997 apart from his brain fade and that car was way off the Williams. He narrowly lost at least two titles he could have won, 1997 and 2006, so could easily have ended up on nine.

[coetzeeh]

cgt2 said:

It's very possible that by the end of September Hamilton will be second only to Schumacher in the all time winners list.

I remember growing up I thought Prost and Senna's win and pole records would stand forever. As Lewis is still relatively young it's entirely possible he will win another 25 races in his career and take the all time record.

Love him or hate him that is quite an achievement and does not happen by accident.

Not sure how many F1 races LH has won but I guess it is sub 50 - Schumacher won 91 so still a while to go.

Also, the second half of the season is going to be tricky for LH now that he is running out of engines.

[ERIKM400]

HustleRussell said:

ZX10R NIN said:

I haven't watched it yet but I understand Jenson got a drive through penalty for being told about his brakes if this is true I thinks it's good & we can now get some consistency from the rule makers.

Before everyone jumps on me I thinks it's fair because before you'd have to visit the pits to get a problem like that sorted so by being told how to rectify it he stayed safe but would have gained an advantage of not visiting the pits so they've used some common sense & readdressed the advantage.

I just hope FIA hold their nerve & keep this sensible approach up & then sort out the track limits for all circuits & things might get on a sensible tier.

No. His brake pedal was going to the floor. If that isn't considered a safety issue then what is?

The thing is: do you really believe JB needs to talk to his race engineer to know that he has got a "safety issue" when he hits the brakes at 200mph and nothing happens?
Hell, when I'm doing some leptons in the Noble and notice my brakes don't work then I don't need to make a call to my garage to know that I'm in trouble.

The reason for the drive through penalty is that the engineers at McLaren managed to diagnose the problem and give instructions to the driver to solve it, WITHOUT entering the pitlane, so JB could (almost) finish his race instead of retiring the car early in the race.

If you allow this then we might as well go back to the two way telemetry systems allowing a couple of dozen engineers in the pitlane to make continuous adaptations to all sorts of the car's parameters and settings optimizing performance throughout the race.

[cgt2]

coetzeeh said:

Not sure how many F1 races LH has won but I guess it is sub 50 - Schumacher won 91 so still a while to go.

Also, the second half of the season is going to be tricky for LH now that he is running out of engines.

Prost 51, Hamilton 48. I would like Schumachers record to stand but if Hamilton has another 7 years then it's entirely possible he could win another 40 odd races in that time. He's only had a really dominant car since 2014.

[AndrewEH1]

cgt2 said:

coetzeeh said:

Not sure how many F1 races LH has won but I guess it is sub 50 - Schumacher won 91 so still a while to go.

Also, the second half of the season is going to be tricky for LH now that he is running out of engines.

Prost 51, Hamilton 48. I would like Schumachers record to stand but if Hamilton has another 7 years then it's entirely possible he could win another 40 odd races in that time. He's only had a really dominant car since 2014.

Unless Hamilton joins Ferrari as the clear No1 driver I don't think he'll ever reach Schumacher's record.

[VladD]

AndrewEH1 said:

cgt2 said:

coetzeeh said:

Not sure how many F1 races LH has won but I guess it is sub 50 - Schumacher won 91 so still a while to go.

Also, the second half of the season is going to be tricky for LH now that he is running out of engines.

Prost 51, Hamilton 48. I would like Schumachers record to stand but if Hamilton has another 7 years then it's entirely possible he could win another 40 odd races in that time. He's only had a really dominant car since 2014.

Unless Hamilton joins Ferrari as the clear No1 driver I don't think he'll ever reach Schumacher's record.

But I'm crossing my fingers all the same.

[housen]

VladD said:

AndrewEH1 said:

cgt2 said:

coetzeeh said:

Not sure how many F1 races LH has won but I guess it is sub 50 - Schumacher won 91 so still a while to go.

Also, the second half of the season is going to be tricky for LH now that he is running out of engines.

Prost 51, Hamilton 48. I would like Schumachers record to stand but if Hamilton has another 7 years then it's entirely possible he could win another 40 odd races in that time. He's only had a really dominant car since 2014.

Unless Hamilton joins Ferrari as the clear No1 driver I don't think he'll ever reach Schumacher's record.

But I'm crossing my fingers all the same.

I know this is really off beat and controversial

but have u ever seen some Italian football players who arnt 100% Italian play for the the squad

sometimes the reaction isn't lets say modern

I cant see it given how traditional a firm like Ferrari is

[NJK44]

coetzeeh said:

Not sure how many F1 races LH has won but I guess it is sub 50 - Schumacher won 91 so still a while to go.

Also, the second half of the season is going to be tricky for LH now that he is running out of engines.

He'll probably have a decent lead over Nico when he takes the penalty, and he'll take a double penalty so only once race.

Hardly tricky. I'm not worried.

[VladD]

housen said:

I know this is really off beat and controversial

but have u ever seen some Italian football players who arnt 100% Italian play for the the squad

sometimes the reaction isn't lets say modern

I cant see it given how traditional a firm like Ferrari is

An interesting point. If he can win with them though, he could be the next "Il Leone". It all depends on which is the stronger emotion.

[Dr Z]

Well, that was an interesting race. I'm not sure if it can be termed boring with the race leader couple of seconds infront of the 2nd placed car apparently being put under pressure; the 4th placed car catching 3rd placed car to fight for a podium place and the 5th/6th placed cars having a dice? It has been one of the more interesting races at the front I must say, purely from a strategy perspective.

Having said that, I think Hamilton was really playing too much games with the rest and in reality that's what allowed Mercedes to get a 1-2. While it was risky for Mercedes from a team perspective, Red Bull shouldn't have fell for it, IMO allowing Ricciardo to pit way early for his final stint. Even in the middle part of the race, where usually there is a lull, I found it particularly intriguing how the different strategy options might play out at the front...especially with Kimi on a different tyre strategy to the rest.

Nice to see McLaren look more competitive in the midfield, however I would be surprised if they could stay at the head of the midfield like this in upcoming races. If they do, that's a good sign for next year. Shocking performance from Williams seem to remember Massa languishing right the back on the medium tyres at some point in the race...good job that Force India dropped the ball too, the points deficit wasn't slashed much after this weekend.

Verstappen was skirting way too close to the limit in defending against Raikkonen, IMO...doing these little jinks left and right that throws off the attacker especially when he's following nose to tail. Where's Maldonado when you need him teach a lesson? But Kimi is such a tease...getting a pass from him is like pulling teeth. Gah! I really wanted him pass, but it's good that even on a old slower tyre a defender is able to hold off a faster car. Otherwise, we'll have people complaining that the overtakes are all too artificial...Oh.

It was also good to see that Kimi was able to follow very close without destroying his tyres...I was following that battle on live timing and he was really able to attack for at least 10-12 laps...on a tyre that was not the most optimal at this circuit. I'd say this is a good thing for the sport, but was it the car being kinder on it's tyres? Or was it Kimi? Maybe a bit of both? Anyway, congrats to Hamilton for "winning at the slowest speed possible". A very risky strategy and made it a bit more entertaining at the front.

[Some Gump]

cgt2 said:

It's very possible that by the end of September Hamilton will be second only to Schumacher in the all time winners list.

I remember growing up I thought Prost and Senna's win and pole records would stand forever. As Lewis is still relatively young it's entirely possible he will win another 25 races in his career and take the all time record.

Love him or hate him that is quite an achievement and does not happen by accident.

The game has changed though. You're comparing apples with mangoes.

In 1989, there were 16 races. No-one could be expected to finish all of them due to reliability. Senna (second) had 7 DNF's. In fact, in 1989, there were 397 starts, and 214 retirements - more than 53%. That's one hell of an attrition rate.

Of course it'll be mightily impressive when Lewis takes the record - but IMO you can't use these numbers compare one era to another to prove conclusively who the "best ever" is or was.

[cgt2]

Some Gump said:

Of course it'll be mightily impressive when Lewis takes the record - but IMO you can't use these numbers compare one era to another to prove conclusively who the "best ever" is or was.

I never said that you could compare. And I hope Lewis doesn't take the all time record. I just pointed out that it is possible he could if he is around for another few years.

[hora]

NJK44 said:

coetzeeh said:

Not sure how many F1 races LH has won but I guess it is sub 50 - Schumacher won 91 so still a while to go.

Also, the second half of the season is going to be tricky for LH now that he is running out of engines.

He'll probably have a decent lead over Nico when he takes the penalty, and he'll take a double penalty so only once race.

Hardly tricky. I'm not worried.

Britney's due his round of mechanicals on that respect too

[VladD]

Dr Z said:

Anyway, congrats to Hamilton for "winning at the slowest speed possible". A very risky strategy and made it a bit more entertaining at the front.

I did wonder during the race whether Hamilton was doing this or whether Nico was just faster on the day. Was Lewis managing his engine so as to reduce wear on it confident that he could hold Nico off? Is this how Lewis is going to be driving from now on to conserve what PU components he has left?

[joema]

Redlake27 said:

If a Redbull had sneaked ahead at the start.
If Kimi hadn't qualified so badly.
If there had been a safety car.

Then it may have been a good race. But it was terrible.

I don't expect wheel to wheel action every lap. For that, I watch BTCC. But I don't expect cars to be driven so far below their limit (for much of the race they were driving 10% slower than in qualifying) the drivers are on autopilot, able to joke on the radio and never making mistakes (as they are not pushing).

Yes, you can get the odd flashpoint (Kimi v Max was entertaining) but this race was typical of F1 post 2011.

Having watched WEC after the F1, I reckon that F1 needs a tyre war. A WEC, the cars were being driven at near qualifying pace (allowing for fuel loads) every lap. There were more wheel to wheel , paint rubbing moments in the first 30min that I watched.

Drivers pushing , mistakes being made, overtaking on track (not the pits) . If that had been distilled into a 2h GP format, it would've been brilliant.

It was brilliant at 6hours long. Would hate to see it shortened.