Christian Horner
Discussion
Jasandjules said:
skwdenyer said:
If you read his piece after AD21, I don’t think he took sides as between RB and Merc. What he did was defend Masi and opine he thought the rules allowed for what had happened.
That’s importantly different to the accusations of partisanship.
Not really. The rules are and were extremely clear and Masi knew them to be so. That’s importantly different to the accusations of partisanship.
Anyone attempting to defend that decision which was plainly in breach of the rules was partisan, it is that simple.
skwdenyer said:
Jasandjules said:
skwdenyer said:
If you read his piece after AD21, I don’t think he took sides as between RB and Merc. What he did was defend Masi and opine he thought the rules allowed for what had happened.
That’s importantly different to the accusations of partisanship.
Not really. The rules are and were extremely clear and Masi knew them to be so. That’s importantly different to the accusations of partisanship.
Anyone attempting to defend that decision which was plainly in breach of the rules was partisan, it is that simple.
Edited by PhilAsia on Tuesday 2nd April 02:13
skwdenyer said:
Forester1965 said:
Suggestion in F1 tattle rag F1 Business that the independent lawyer asked to investigate Horner is actually a regular one used by the Thai owners' who was infrastructed to clear him.
No idea of the veracity of that information.
Not just that:No idea of the veracity of that information.
BusinessF1 said:
Finally this month’s cover story asks whether Chalerm Yoovidhya, the 51 percent shareholder in Red Bull GmbH, is a fit and proper person to control two Formula One teams.
I’d say the power struggle is just getting started 
And that power struggle won't go away, just like the story about Horny
Derek Smith said:
skwdenyer said:
Jos does seem to have been his own worst enemy sometimes.
It would appear he was the worst enemy to a number of people. Why should he not include himself?Sandpit Steve said:
Derek Smith said:
skwdenyer said:
Jos does seem to have been his own worst enemy sometimes.
It would appear he was the worst enemy to a number of people. Why should he not include himself?Sandpit Steve said:
Derek Smith said:
skwdenyer said:
Jos does seem to have been his own worst enemy sometimes.
It would appear he was the worst enemy to a number of people. Why should he not include himself?
vs .Sandpit Steve said:
The whole power struggle is going to be so interesting to watch, precisely because everyone involved is so dislikable. It’s Alien vs Predator.
+1On the one hand, there's no bad outcome because someone unpleasant loses.
On the other hand, there's no good outcome either though, because someone unpleasant wins.
It's a proper paradox
TikTak said:
Lovely to see the debate still rumbles on.
That said, not really paid attention to this for about 50 odd pages. Would anyone care to summarize if anything has actually happened in the past few weeks that'd be great?
Neither Horner or the employee in question have agreed to go quietly.That said, not really paid attention to this for about 50 odd pages. Would anyone care to summarize if anything has actually happened in the past few weeks that'd be great?
Otherwise, the rest of us pin some vain hope that Newey will go to Ferrari or Aston Martin.
No one really gives a s
t what Verstappen does as long as he isn't at either Ferrari or Aston with Newey.Leithen said:
TikTak said:
Lovely to see the debate still rumbles on.
That said, not really paid attention to this for about 50 odd pages. Would anyone care to summarize if anything has actually happened in the past few weeks that'd be great?
Neither Horner or the employee in question have agreed to go quietly.That said, not really paid attention to this for about 50 odd pages. Would anyone care to summarize if anything has actually happened in the past few weeks that'd be great?
Otherwise, the rest of us pin some vain hope that Newey will go to Ferrari or Aston Martin.
No one really gives a s
t what Verstappen does as long as he isn't at either Ferrari or Aston with Newey.
skwdenyer said:
suffolk009 said:
PhilAsia said:
Yep. His defense of AD21 was a shot in the foot. I feel he is another RB guy.
Exactly, prior to his response to AD21 I thought of Saward highly. Now clearly he's too afraid to rock the RB boat. Credibility - blown.That’s importantly different to the accusations of partisanship.
I was regularly a reader of his until AD21 as well, but his failure to call it for what is was was telling.
As for this current situation, I said earlier on Horner was toast, you can't continuing sexting someone after they said no*. It looks like I was wrong and he is going to survive this. That said, given all the people involved with RB that have waded in with an opinion, surely somebody has to go from the current set up, they can't carry on as a united team after this surely...
ETA: * assuming that is actually what happened and not a fabricated bit part on whatever the hell is going on inside the wide RB organsiation.
Edited by Megaflow on Tuesday 2nd April 11:18
TikTak said:
Lovely to see the debate still rumbles on.
That said, not really paid attention to this for about 50 odd pages. Would anyone care to summarize if anything has actually happened in the past few weeks that'd be great?
Don't we all love someone saying they only come onto this thread for their own reasons, and not the base ones of the regular posters. I mean, who doesn't enjoy being patronised? However, you asked:That said, not really paid attention to this for about 50 odd pages. Would anyone care to summarize if anything has actually happened in the past few weeks that'd be great?
If the person in charge of a police case feels they are getting bogged down in ifs, buts and dead ends, one way out is to list what’s known, and how. You never know, it might work for the RBR saga.
1/ The two people involved are Horner, by his own admission, and his PA, she being identified but not named in reports.
2/ A complaint has been made by the PA for inappropriate behaviour.
3/ A KC has been appointed by RB to report on the matter.
4/ The KC has completed his report.
5/ RB has decided not to uphold the complaint.
6/ Following the decision to reject the complaint, some documents have been released into the public domain which show a woman saying she wants no more contact of a private nature with Horner and he continues to pester her. Implicit in the documents is the suggestion that some form of sexual relationship took place between the complainant and Horner.
7/ These leaks have been criticised by Horner and RB, but they have not been refuted them, nor has Horner stated they are untrue.
8/ Little else of importance.
There are rumours that the complainant has appealed. There is no official confirmation of this.
We have only RB’s account of the matter. The complainant has not gone public with the nature of her accusations. Horner has made various statements on the matter, so we have only one ‘side’.
If there was a sexual relationship between the two, the evidence is it was consensual.
A person in a senior position having sexual relations with someone they have authority over may not be contrary to the codes of conduct of RB. If this is true, there would seem to be no improper conduct disclosed.
The leaks indicate Horner, in a position of authority over an employee, continued with overt sexual conduct towards this person after being requested to desist. Whether this would be against RB internal codes of conduct at RB is unknown. However, is might be actionable in a number of countries, and illegal in some.
Horner has claimed he was cleared by RB. This is patently not so.
A number of commentators, bloggers and such, have stated there is more to come in this saga, and that they know something that has not been revealed. They have produced no evidence to support these claims.
At the end of the person in charge of an enquiry’s attempts to list the unchallengeable, they will ask staff, ‘What have I missed?’
What have I missed?
End of, but only this post.
Megaflow said:
skwdenyer said:
suffolk009 said:
PhilAsia said:
Yep. His defense of AD21 was a shot in the foot. I feel he is another RB guy.
Exactly, prior to his response to AD21 I thought of Saward highly. Now clearly he's too afraid to rock the RB boat. Credibility - blown.That’s importantly different to the accusations of partisanship.
I was regularly a reader of his until AD21 as well, but his failure to call it for what is was was telling.
Edited by Megaflow on Tuesday 2nd April 11:18
I don’t begrudge him a need to keep earning a living. I don’t need a journalist to tell me what to think. I don’t even have to agree with what a journalist writes. The role a journalist like JS has to me is in gaining access to places I cannot. I can form my own views.
In consequence, I still read JS’ output. As with any source, I use my own critical thinking skills whilst reading it. And if he doesn’t agree with my worldview on some aspects that’s no reason for me to stop reading it.
. Sounds like it hasn't moved too much but the circus rumbles on. skwdenyer said:
I’d agree with this view. JS has only one product: his F1 access. I don’t know how Liberty approach things, but under Bernie a journalist’s pass was something that could be - and was - withdrawn.
I don’t begrudge him a need to keep earning a living. I don’t need a journalist to tell me what to think. I don’t even have to agree with what a journalist writes. The role a journalist like JS has to me is in gaining access to places I cannot. I can form my own views.
In consequence, I still read JS’ output. As with any source, I use my own critical thinking skills whilst reading it. And if he doesn’t agree with my worldview on some aspects that’s no reason for me to stop reading it.
From what I recall the FIA used to issue press and photo passes not FOM. I don’t begrudge him a need to keep earning a living. I don’t need a journalist to tell me what to think. I don’t even have to agree with what a journalist writes. The role a journalist like JS has to me is in gaining access to places I cannot. I can form my own views.
In consequence, I still read JS’ output. As with any source, I use my own critical thinking skills whilst reading it. And if he doesn’t agree with my worldview on some aspects that’s no reason for me to stop reading it.
Gazzab said:
That bbc article backs the theories expressed on here eg that the messages are real, that RB have ensured she remains silent etc. Interesting to read that an ET is registered. RB will be trying to keep the hearing private if it gets that far. I assume they can’t actually do that.
Either side could apply for a reporting restriction order under s.11 of the Employment Tribunals Act. I guess if the application were successful in this case it'd mean no reporting until judgment was handed down.
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