Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

[paulguitar]

C5_Steve said:

alisdairm said:

A good and honest interview with Lewis on the BBC sports site:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/67545618

Thanks for sharing, good read.

A slightly longer version of the same interview with the thoughts of Mark Hughes:

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/hamilton-end-of...

[tight fart]

Hadn’t seen this before, Lewis up against the Ford Fiesta of Ken Block.
Looks like they both had fun.

https://x.com/elreyguiri/status/174210348186592487...

[paulguitar]

Lewis's birthday was yesterday, he's 39.

This is geriatric by F1 standards. It's amazing he's able to maintain the physical fitness and motivation to continue at the top level. How long do we think he will go on? If Verstappen continues to have the colossal mechanical advantage he's enjoyed for a while now, being realistic, Lewis (and all of the others, for that matter) have no chance of anything other than picking up scraps.


I suspect that if Mercedes doesn't produce a genuinely competitive car for 2024, surely he'll have some doubts about the point of carrying on?

[cliffords]

He should have quit whilst he was at the top.
Before all the supporters rush to his defence, I just think he has gone on too long now . He could have retired from F1 as an all time great , he is diluting it now .
He does seem to have stopped moaning as much , so perhaps he is accepting he has had his day . Many of them as it happens.

[PlywoodPascal]

To be utterly frank, he wasn’t able to quit at the top because the sport stole the title he won from him.

[paulguitar]

cliffords said:

He should have quit whilst he was at the top.
Before all the supporters rush to his defence, I just think he has gone on too long now . He could have retired from F1 as an all time great , he is diluting it now .
He does seem to have stopped moaning as much , so perhaps he is accepting he has had his day . Many of them as it happens.

He would still be considered an all-time great if he rolled in last at every race for a season. Nothing will eradicate his career from Cadet Karts onwards, He'd be an all-time F1 great (as Mark Hughes once said) if he'd retired at the end of 2007.


I don't agree that he is diluting anything. He's in an uncompetitive car now, but still handily beat his highly-rated and much younger teammate last season. Realistically, he couldn't be expected to be doing much more than he has done.

[paulguitar]

PlywoodPascal said:

To be utterly frank, he wasn’t able to quit at the top because the sport stole the title he won from him.

That's the crux of it, I think. He'd probably have retired having won his eighth title, but it was mugged from him. Perhaps he'd have carried on to hand over the reins to his Mercedes successor but in a far more low-key way.

Whatever, I'm pleased he's still out there. After what was done to him it's quite remarkable he's still prepared to show up and give it his best. The sport will be immeasurably diminished when he finally hangs up his helmet and gloves.

[cliffords]

paulguitar said:

cliffords said:

He should have quit whilst he was at the top.
Before all the supporters rush to his defence, I just think he has gone on too long now . He could have retired from F1 as an all time great , he is diluting it now .
He does seem to have stopped moaning as much , so perhaps he is accepting he has had his day . Many of them as it happens.

He would still be considered an all-time great if he rolled in last at every race for a season. Nothing will eradicate his career from Cadet Karts onwards, He'd be an all-time F1 great (as Mark Hughes once said) if he'd retired at the end of 2007.


I don't agree that he is diluting anything. He's in an uncompetitive car now, but still handily beat his highly-rated and much younger teammate last season. Realistically, he couldn't be expected to be doing much more than he has done.

I do take your point , there is quite a bit of you are only as good as your last race in motorsport. I am not arguing he is an all time driver. If he has a season this year with no wins in a car less fast than a RB , a Ferrari or even perhaps a McLaren this year , will he regret he did not move onto something else sooner . He has interests in fashion and promoting women and minority in motorsport, he has other stuff to do well.

[520TORQUES]

cliffords said:

He should have quit whilst he was at the top.
Before all the supporters rush to his defence, I just think he has gone on too long now . He could have retired from F1 as an all time great , he is diluting it now .
He does seem to have stopped moaning as much , so perhaps he is accepting he has had his day . Many of them as it happens.

He finished best of the none Red Bull drivers in 2023. Give your head a wobble.

[southendpier]

paulguitar said:

That's the crux of it, I think. He'd probably have retired having won his eighth title, but it was mugged from him. Perhaps he'd have carried on to hand over the reins to his Mercedes successor but in a far more low-key way.

Whatever, I'm pleased he's still out there. After what was done to him it's quite remarkable he's still prepared to show up and give it his best. The sport will be immeasurably diminished when he finally hangs up his helmet and gloves.

Agree with all of that.

[Muzzer79]

Knowing when to quit is the hardest decision for any top line sportsman

For me, the ideal scenario would have been for him to win the 8th title in 2021 and stop there. But we all know what happened in that regard.

I don't see him harming his legacy now by carrying on in the same way that Tiger Woods isn't harming his by continuing playing golf at 48.

But I wouldn't like to see him drop down the grid, Raikkonen-style. Mercedes should be his last team.

I also think, like most successful drivers, his achievements will only really be recognised in general, once he stops.

[Hustle_]

paulguitar said:

Lewis's birthday was yesterday, he's 39.

This is geriatric by F1 standards. It's amazing he's able to maintain the physical fitness and motivation to continue at the top level. How long do we think he will go on? If Verstappen continues to have the colossal mechanical advantage he's enjoyed for a while now, being realistic, Lewis (and all of the others, for that matter) have no chance of anything other than picking up scraps.


I suspect that if Mercedes doesn't produce a genuinely competitive car for 2024, surely he'll have some doubts about the point of carrying on?

Alonso's got three years on Hamilton.

Hamilton's current contract runs to the end of 2025.

Not looking forward to two more years of "Hamilton to Retire? Hamilton to Ferrari?" speculation. We've already had two years of it.

[RB Will]

People will see him how they want to see him. Age and physicality wise there is no reason he cant go on, look at Alonso still smashing it. As we know the biggest influence on performance is the car so all it needs is Merc back up top again. Though this may create or embolden the group of "its just the car" people so if he does get a good car he is going to need to either pull off some spectacular racing in it or destroy his team mate to show "he" still has it.

It will take a fair bit to properly tarnish his legacy but not impossible. Schumacher's Merc years didn't do him any favours for example, and if Lewis has another couple of years driving like he did this year it really wont help the cause. Lets be honest, this year was a rather meh performance in Lewis terms, no standout results or ace racing moves that I can think of and plenty of silly crashes that most other drivers would have been crucified for. The overall championship result flattered him. Excluding DNF / DQ his average finish was 5th, not threatening 2nd as per the championship. Shows you the power of being consistent though. Comfortably outperforming George was good, though he didn't exactly have a great year.

What will be interesting is what he does if Merc cant get back to championship winning level. I don't think he is in it for the love of the sport, and he doesn't need the paycheque, he just wants to win. How long will he stay around hoping for that golden car? George certainly didn't look impressed when Lewis said he had another 5 years in him

[paulguitar]

RB Will said:

if Lewis has another couple of years driving like he did this year it really wont help the cause.

He was third in the WDC behind the dominant Red Bulls and way ahead of his teammate.

[southendpier]

Mansell won the F1 Title at 39.

[HTP99]

paulguitar said:

RB Will said:

if Lewis has another couple of years driving like he did this year it really wont help the cause.

He was third in the WDC behind the dominant Red Bulls and way ahead of his teammate.

You and me both paulguitar!

[RB Will]

paulguitar said:

RB Will said:

if Lewis has another couple of years driving like he did this year it really wont help the cause.

He was third in the WDC behind the dominant Red Bulls and way ahead of his teammate.

I did try to explain my reasoning. You can take that basic view of the overall finishing position being best of the rest if you wish but it certainly doesn't give the full picture. This is what I mean when I said people will see it how they want.

All if your Aunt had balls talk but Alonso would have been well ahead if his car held out, Lando would have been even further ahead if he had the Silverstone onwards spec car all year. CLC probably would have been ahead if it were not for Ferrari. And these are all iffs and buts but they do lead to Hamiltons overall position being a bit more down to luck than his outright skill this year. He took himself clean out of one race and had silly bumps in a fair few others and was lucky not to have another in Japan running his team mate off the road.
Didnt the team bosses only vote him 5th this year? That has to be a low for him?

[PlywoodPascal]

Standout result - pole at Hungary in the 3rd fastest car (at best), sometimes 4th fastest.

If you compare average finishing positions his gap to teammate was (as you would expect for a 8 time WDC winner) pretty much the biggest there was, if I remember correctly.

[Muzzer79]

RB Will said:

Alonso would have been well ahead if his car held out, Lando would have been even further ahead if he had the Silverstone onwards spec car all year. CLC probably would have been ahead if it were not for Ferrari. And these are all iffs and buts but they do lead to Hamiltons overall position being a bit more down to luck than his outright skill this year.

That's a baffling viewpoint.

Using your logic:

Russell would have been world champion "were it not for Mercedes"
Sainz would have been challenging Verstappen if Ferrari had given him a car like he had in Singapore

So clearly Verstappen's 3rd title was down to luck, rather than outright skill?

Fact is that Hamilton came third. The others, for varying reasons, were behind. It's not down to luck, it's down to consistency.

If you want to use the luck argument then Hamilton should have won the title in 2016. But I hate it when people say that because, at the end of the day, Rosberg won fair and square. He wasn't lucky - he did what was necessary.

[deadslow]

Hamilton is still in the top league of drivers, and gets the benefit of the doubt re small mistakes etc until Merc give him a decent car.