Official 2024 Australian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Poll: Official 2024 Australian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Total Members Polled: 129
Discussion
Likes Fast Cars said:
entropy said:
Anyone think Ferrari genuinely had the upper hand over RB on Sunday?
We won’t ever know BUT… given the fact there was one RB on the track and it was comprehensively beaten, yes they did. To further back up my opinion, Max’s car failed (I.e. was beaten).
The thing is, we talk about Max 'walking off' each race to an easy win... But in reality we're talking about half a second a lap advantage, which whilst significant in F1 terms is still only half a second, which is easy to lose if the car really doesn't suit the track and the Ferrari really does.
For me Max DNF'ing pretty slightly spoiled the race. I was very interested to see how close the Ferrari's could get and if they could actually beat him here. It's great that they did get the 1-2 but It would have been even better if they had proven they could beat Max in his Red Bull... Just once this year
TheDeuce said:
Likes Fast Cars said:
entropy said:
Anyone think Ferrari genuinely had the upper hand over RB on Sunday?
We won’t ever know BUT… given the fact there was one RB on the track and it was comprehensively beaten, yes they did. To further back up my opinion, Max’s car failed (I.e. was beaten).
The thing is, we talk about Max 'walking off' each race to an easy win... But in reality we're talking about half a second a lap advantage, which whilst significant in F1 terms is still only half a second, which is easy to lose if the car really doesn't suit the track and the Ferrari really does.
For me Max DNF'ing pretty slightly spoiled the race. I was very interested to see how close the Ferrari's could get and if they could actually beat him here. It's great that they did get the 1-2 but It would have been even better if they had proven they could beat Max in his Red Bull... Just once this year
PlywoodPascal said:
yes and I explain exactly why they would have to red flag it in the middle of the race above.
what would the benefit of the red flag be, in this situation, with the race on its final lap, over virtual safety car to the finish and the local instructions via double waved yellows?
[b]In both situations the racing is stopped, ended, finished.
In both situations drivers are warned to be prepared to stop on the track around the incident.[/b]
The fact is that this incident did not warrant a red flag, because the red flag, as a result of the timing of the incidents, did not bring any relevant benefits over the safety car. There was no need to clear the track or to resume racing afterwards, because the race had finished.
To reiterate - the red flag is not for 'worse' incidents than the yellow flags or a safety car. the red flag allows the race to be stopped and restarted. It is used when people need sustained access to test rack to clear debris or fix stuff, so that they can safely do their work. It's not used to provide a more extreme warning to drivers about what to expect to encounter on track than is provided by double waved yellows.
My bold... Jules Bianchi died under double waved yellows, and whilst it's a "be prepared to stop", every will try and maximise it. In your head, under yellows, the race is still on, just slightly subdued. Reds and it's all over.what would the benefit of the red flag be, in this situation, with the race on its final lap, over virtual safety car to the finish and the local instructions via double waved yellows?
[b]In both situations the racing is stopped, ended, finished.
In both situations drivers are warned to be prepared to stop on the track around the incident.[/b]
The fact is that this incident did not warrant a red flag, because the red flag, as a result of the timing of the incidents, did not bring any relevant benefits over the safety car. There was no need to clear the track or to resume racing afterwards, because the race had finished.
To reiterate - the red flag is not for 'worse' incidents than the yellow flags or a safety car. the red flag allows the race to be stopped and restarted. It is used when people need sustained access to test rack to clear debris or fix stuff, so that they can safely do their work. It's not used to provide a more extreme warning to drivers about what to expect to encounter on track than is provided by double waved yellows.
Edited by PlywoodPascal on Monday 25th March 12:51
Red in this situation would have a) shown it's serious and b) ended the race in the current positions. Yes, they would still need to go to the pits hence still drive past but reds are instant race over, something serious has happened and drivers respect that - double yellows could just be a marshal picking up a bit of debris - whilst dangerous, you can maximise these situations massively.
If it made no difference, then why not red flag it? Enough of the race distance had been covered to just finish the day.
PlywoodPascal said:
I don't get why this is such hard work.
The red flag allows you to suspend the race so you can sort out stuff that would stop the racing from carrying on, and then later resume racing.
There is no point doing that on the last lap, because the race is about to finish.
You don't need to red flag the race, tidy everything up, and then carry on, because there is nothing left to carry on with.
"Red Flag: This flag is used to stop a practice session, qualifying session or race due to a serious accident or extreme weather."The red flag allows you to suspend the race so you can sort out stuff that would stop the racing from carrying on, and then later resume racing.
There is no point doing that on the last lap, because the race is about to finish.
You don't need to red flag the race, tidy everything up, and then carry on, because there is nothing left to carry on with.
It has nothing to do with sorting stuff out, or how much machinery is needed on track. The flags are varying levels of reaction to the danger posed by cars on track.
Likes Fast Cars said:
And he got off light, I still say should have been DQ’ed.
He has gotten away with way too much over the years, those posters on here trying to defend the indefensible Alonso need to get their fanboy blinkers off.
He has gotten away with way too much over the years, those posters on here trying to defend the indefensible Alonso need to get their fanboy blinkers off.
Likes Fast Cars said:
Personally, I would love to see Alonso DQed for a season, can’t stand that piece of human trash.
Who's wearing the blinkers again?menguin said:
PlywoodPascal said:
I don't get why this is such hard work.
The red flag allows you to suspend the race so you can sort out stuff that would stop the racing from carrying on, and then later resume racing.
There is no point doing that on the last lap, because the race is about to finish.
You don't need to red flag the race, tidy everything up, and then carry on, because there is nothing left to carry on with.
"Red Flag: This flag is used to stop a practice session, qualifying session or race due to a serious accident or extreme weather."The red flag allows you to suspend the race so you can sort out stuff that would stop the racing from carrying on, and then later resume racing.
There is no point doing that on the last lap, because the race is about to finish.
You don't need to red flag the race, tidy everything up, and then carry on, because there is nothing left to carry on with.
It has nothing to do with sorting stuff out, or how much machinery is needed on track. The flags are varying levels of reaction to the danger posed by cars on track.
RemarkLima said:
My bold... Jules Bianchi died under double waved yellows, and whilst it's a "be prepared to stop", every will try and maximise it. In your head, under yellows, the race is still on, just slightly subdued. Reds and it's all over.
Red in this situation would have a) shown it's serious and b) ended the race in the current positions. Yes, they would still need to go to the pits hence still drive past but reds are instant race over, something serious has happened and drivers respect that - double yellows could just be a marshal picking up a bit of debris - whilst dangerous, you can maximise these situations massively.
If it made no difference, then why not red flag it? Enough of the race distance had been covered to just finish the day.
This. Do we want someone else to die because "yellows mean drivers SHOULD slow down, so it's the driver that didn't slow at fault if he crashes"... I'd go for no. Red in this situation would have a) shown it's serious and b) ended the race in the current positions. Yes, they would still need to go to the pits hence still drive past but reds are instant race over, something serious has happened and drivers respect that - double yellows could just be a marshal picking up a bit of debris - whilst dangerous, you can maximise these situations massively.
If it made no difference, then why not red flag it? Enough of the race distance had been covered to just finish the day.
menguin said:
RemarkLima said:
My bold... Jules Bianchi died under double waved yellows, and whilst it's a "be prepared to stop", every will try and maximise it. In your head, under yellows, the race is still on, just slightly subdued. Reds and it's all over.
Red in this situation would have a) shown it's serious and b) ended the race in the current positions. Yes, they would still need to go to the pits hence still drive past but reds are instant race over, something serious has happened and drivers respect that - double yellows could just be a marshal picking up a bit of debris - whilst dangerous, you can maximise these situations massively.
If it made no difference, then why not red flag it? Enough of the race distance had been covered to just finish the day.
This. Do we want someone else to die because "yellows mean drivers SHOULD slow down, so it's the driver that didn't slow at fault if he crashes"... I'd go for no. Red in this situation would have a) shown it's serious and b) ended the race in the current positions. Yes, they would still need to go to the pits hence still drive past but reds are instant race over, something serious has happened and drivers respect that - double yellows could just be a marshal picking up a bit of debris - whilst dangerous, you can maximise these situations massively.
If it made no difference, then why not red flag it? Enough of the race distance had been covered to just finish the day.
PlywoodPascal said:
PhilAsia said:
What?
Russell entered that corner expecting Alonso to be driving an F1 car not a Bedford van. He therefore had the unexpected joy of having his car not gripping as he would have expected it to if Alonso had continued at normal racing speeds.
Alonso caused the slowing at a point where it was unexpected and caused the loss of control in Russell's Merc. George did not choose to go into the corner so close that he would lose control, he went into the corner at normal following and racing speeds until Alonso decided to drive at an unexpected speed and caused the close proximity of George.
Do you not see that your argument - if adopted and consistently applied - leads to the position that cars must always brake in the same place, negotiate a corner at the same speed each lap, and that varying your speed or line when defending an overtake should not allowed. Because what you're arguing is that any change in car speed, positioning or braking point which requires a reaction from the driver behind to accommodate should not be allowed, because it might cause them to crash.Russell entered that corner expecting Alonso to be driving an F1 car not a Bedford van. He therefore had the unexpected joy of having his car not gripping as he would have expected it to if Alonso had continued at normal racing speeds.
Alonso caused the slowing at a point where it was unexpected and caused the loss of control in Russell's Merc. George did not choose to go into the corner so close that he would lose control, he went into the corner at normal following and racing speeds until Alonso decided to drive at an unexpected speed and caused the close proximity of George.
Furthermore you're now saying that George went into the corner at normal following and racing speeds because Alonso's pace was unexpected to him.
[quote]"George did not choose to go into the corner so close that he would lose control, he went into the corner at normal following and racing speeds until Alonso decided to drive at an unexpected speed and caused the close proximity of George."
PlywoodPascal said:
menguin said:
PlywoodPascal said:
I don't get why this is such hard work.
The red flag allows you to suspend the race so you can sort out stuff that would stop the racing from carrying on, and then later resume racing.
There is no point doing that on the last lap, because the race is about to finish.
You don't need to red flag the race, tidy everything up, and then carry on, because there is nothing left to carry on with.
"Red Flag: This flag is used to stop a practice session, qualifying session or race due to a serious accident or extreme weather."The red flag allows you to suspend the race so you can sort out stuff that would stop the racing from carrying on, and then later resume racing.
There is no point doing that on the last lap, because the race is about to finish.
You don't need to red flag the race, tidy everything up, and then carry on, because there is nothing left to carry on with.
It has nothing to do with sorting stuff out, or how much machinery is needed on track. The flags are varying levels of reaction to the danger posed by cars on track.
It’s also very much a sign of severity. A car parked on a side road or in the middle of the track on a relatively unsighted corner is a very different risk. If it’s just about repairing the track after then which rule are you referencing? Or is it your own opinion?
carlo996 said:
paulguitar said:
Two races.
Yippee.
Take Max out and Ferrari will dominate, if they don’t implode.Yippee.
LP670 said:
menguin said:
RemarkLima said:
My bold... Jules Bianchi died under double waved yellows, and whilst it's a "be prepared to stop", every will try and maximise it. In your head, under yellows, the race is still on, just slightly subdued. Reds and it's all over.
Red in this situation would have a) shown it's serious and b) ended the race in the current positions. Yes, they would still need to go to the pits hence still drive past but reds are instant race over, something serious has happened and drivers respect that - double yellows could just be a marshal picking up a bit of debris - whilst dangerous, you can maximise these situations massively.
If it made no difference, then why not red flag it? Enough of the race distance had been covered to just finish the day.
This. Do we want someone else to die because "yellows mean drivers SHOULD slow down, so it's the driver that didn't slow at fault if he crashes"... I'd go for no. Red in this situation would have a) shown it's serious and b) ended the race in the current positions. Yes, they would still need to go to the pits hence still drive past but reds are instant race over, something serious has happened and drivers respect that - double yellows could just be a marshal picking up a bit of debris - whilst dangerous, you can maximise these situations massively.
If it made no difference, then why not red flag it? Enough of the race distance had been covered to just finish the day.
The same way a red light has a different meaning to a flashing amber light (in Europe).
It's a pretty simple difference.
thegreenhell said:
It was VSC and the last lap of the race. It should have been blindingly obvious to everyone that there was going to be no more racing so there would be no need to push the limits or jockey for a restart that was never going to happen.
It's the right thing to do... Otherwise, you can just say, hey it's the last few laps, don't worry about all the lapped clearing the safety car, let's just get a race going 
If it made no difference between red and yellow, then why not just call a red as the right thing to do?
thegreenhell said:
It was VSC and the last lap of the race. It should have been blindingly obvious to everyone that there was going to be no more racing so there would be no need to push the limits or jockey for a restart that was never going to happen.
Racing drivers aren't known for being sensible in the face of the bleeding obvious.Plywood, how far away was Russell when he was following Alonso into that flat out bend? Half a car length? One car length? He was not three seconds behind...maybe half a second.
And that is why I posted, " It is the equivalent of braking at Heathrow for Trafalgar Square"
For emphasis: Imagine travelling at 70mph, closely following a car that has no brake lights on an absolutely clear M4 at Heathrow, when the driver in front suddenly does a one G emergency brake, from 70mph to 20mph, whilst stating that "Trafalgar Square has a 20mph speed limit".
No wonder Russell was caught off guard. And I am not sure I can make the comparison any clearer.
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